LIMIT on TIRES for the Weekend?

[Marty]

@Boxmod - Hmm...is ASD offering this education for free?
Or is it apart of its select ASD Mob drivers program. If so how can I be apart of it? Would I need a car now or could I just be present for the technical training then build my car?

LOLWUT? Do you even drive?

[Lifer]

LOLWUT? Do you even drive?

Do you mean drift? Yes, of course. It wouldn't make sense to ask if I didn't.

[Marty]

Do you mean drift? Yes, of course. It wouldn't make sense to ask if I didn't.

And you've competed?

[YOitzJDM]

I keep feeling like I'm seeing the history of another motorsport repeating itself with these kind of debates on rules/tires/etc.

IMO FD has always did their best in keeping it entertaining with competitive cars/drivers, but in no way will they ever split it up into classes. Spec tires will only happen in FD when sponsors can carry the series with only one brand of tire, and its not a step backwards for them. The rules of keeping the chassis as original as possible, and the weight-to-tire ratio being enforced makes a solid attempt in helping "even" the teams without drastically limiting the cars potential. What I want to see is more high profile performance shops getting into drifting. Expand the technology even further to push the limits of the rules through innovation and design with more variety of chassis competing in the top level. This way we can see more cars like the Falken team fill the entire top 32. Imagine what those battles will be like!

Instead of classes, FD should invest into expanding the FD feeder series along with a Sub-Pro series. This can be a very popular event if the right investment is made. Small rule changes that will make it easier for grassroots drivers to build a competitive car, but still implement the limitations of chassis and tires that the Pros follow so there are no bad habits or surprises when they graduate to FD rookie level. There is a lot of talented drivers not yet able to have the opportunity to show what they can do, and/or willingness to learn. The more FD reaches out to amateurs with support and knowledge, the more likely drivers will invest into drifting. The Sub-Pro series will piggyback on running proam events. Its a voluntary series where current and former pro drivers of any pro level series, with at least one full season or 7 rounds with pro competition under their belt, can get together and compete in either a top 8 or top 16 battle.
This way you can keep the drivers of the same level in the same competition. I.e. no more "grand canyon" gaps between cars. I know if I was a former pro FD driver wanting to get back in to comp, I would want to run with veteran drivers of other pro series to sharpen my skills. Proam drivers can opt to run with the Sub-Pro event if room allows to even the bracket. This way a Proam driver can challenge themselves, but if they feel they are not ready yet, they can still go pack to the proam series that they have points in.

Bottom line, I remember reading something the engineer of the FR-S said and it stuck with me. I can't remember exactly how it want, but I hope you get the idea. "If you build one car to try to make everyone happy it will fail. If you build one car to make a common interest group of people happy you will win." So what do you do? Build a second car for those who don't like the first one, and win again. Thank you all for your time reading this. Its not perfect, but its an idea that I feel would keep drifting in the peak of interest for anyone who wants to get involved. Much respect to all of the drivers, garage all nighters, big dreamers who never give up, and drifters of all walks of life. I’m a “Lifer” in the sport so everyone clutch kick the tires on fire, and keep drifting fun. Go USofA!

They have a feeder system. It's called Formula D Pro-Am. Vegas Drift, Thunderdrift, Just Drift, Evergreen Drift, Streetwise, and a few other programs are part of it.

Also, XDC is a great 'midpoint' between the Pro-Am regional ranks and the Formula D national ranks. There's plenty of opportunities to showcase your talents with similarly-skilled drivers across the country.

So what else do you propose?

[Lifer]

@Marty- Yes I have. I was asking just to get more info about their program. Are you associated with ASD Mob? If so, I would rather go into this in instant msg if details are needed. Plus we are getting off subject.

@YOitsJDM- Yes I know about those feeders. I am talking about bringing them closer in communication with FD(or any trusted party associated with FD) and each other with rules and public announcments and broadcasts of their events. More communication with FD Technical advisors or other trusted parties so those who don't know or are struggling can get experienced input on their car and driving. Setting up your car for drifting on a baseline level should not be a big secret, nor should it be difficult for those who are serious about competing to follow the rule book. This will build the Proam to a stronger level of competition. The positive support and presence of FD in the grassroots level will encourage drivers to learn the craft of setting up chassis and suspension for droper drift alignment. Its safer, more fun, and very rewarding to have a drift car/driver at any level be controllable and more confident. The more the driver is educated, the better the competition becomes.

[Bebop]

Why would they want to?

For one better battles up into the main event, the way I proposed bracketing it anyway. No more Cyrus Martinez vs Tyler Mcquarrie snooze fests.

Secondly, isn't claiming a 3rd place in class sound a hell of a lot better to a sponsor then 18th place in the season?

Thirdly a lot more sponsor opportunities, individual sponsors for each class I.E. "Castrol Edge Turbo Class"

How so? Only contradictions i see is fro those that are in favor of this tire limit rule.

Oh really? One minute someone is saying FD is the best most professional series in the world blah blah everyone else needs to step up and evolve blah blah. But when the subject of classes show up it goes to FD being to broke (lack of sponsors) and not enough entries for classes. Which one is it, is FD a drifting power house or still a developing sanctioning body?


OK... lets compromise. Since revising tandem, organizing classes, and limiting tires is off everyones tables here is another idea I just thought of *coughstolefromalmsandgrandamcough*.

Lets limit the production vehicles that can be ran.

Mustang
Camaro
370Z
Genesis Coupe
FR-S


Lets limit the teams who can actually build the vehicle

ASD
Blu808
CFR
RMR
Greddy

Lets slim down the tire suppliers and models used

Falken RT-615K
Hankook Ventus R-S3
Nitto NT05

In return this will force any privateer team to buy a prebuilt car from any of these existing factory teams (yes I know blu808 isn't a factory team). And use only one of the three proven tire brands and models to compete on. Therefor everyone is virtually running the same thing, or at least one of the same things. It will be up to each team to figure out the proper setup, they can share information if needed. And of course up to the teams to find the sponsors to facilitate such programs.

Lets face it this is virtually what every sanctioning body does using production vehicles (along with classes I might add).

Let the contradictory crying and whining begin...well maybe except for Ian, this will expand ASDs program and fatten their pockets dramatically .

[BigGameHit]

wow ... lots of drama there... I stay in Japan

[boxmod]

My views:

1. Lower tier guys need more time/help/knowledge to bring their cars and driving up.

2. More drivers need to learn how to market themselves, and 90% of sponsors don't care if you are top5, they want a well run program that isn't run like a lemonade stand first. There is more to our world than competitions.

3. The tire manufacturer fee is taking money that could support more drivers.

-----

Reality-
1. Will work itself out as the sport matures
2. Will work itself out as drivers learn what racing is about.
3. Will be a hurdle until FD finds a largley supportive series sponsor.



FD is the best out there, but not perfect and they know that- but they are working on it. FD is not too poor for classes except there would be very low driver counts per class. The whole idea is drifting is to bring what you got and drive the balls off it, stop trying to make the big dogs pay for making better cars and deal with it. As far as XDC being a mid-way series.... if I'm spending the same amount of money to compete (national spread of events) I'll goto FD where TV/livesteam/fans are the best and highest count by far. I'll learn from the best as I drive with them.



Lifer*
ASD Mob program is an openly applied for program in the fall (already missed for 2012) that they bring (at no cost to you) selected drivers out and teach them setups. They continue support via internet, phone, and sometimes in-person if you are at an event with or near them.

Ask ASD itself more and pay attention for the new round of application time period sometime near the end of the year.

[Lifer]

@Boxmod- That is very true on what the reality of this sport is. What I stated is what I foresee the sport evolving into. No one idea will make everyone happy, but as for me, I like the way things are and where they are going, but whatever happens, I will still be drifting anyways.

I am interested in the ASD Mob program, and will be keeping an eye out for it when they are opening registration again. I planned on being just a fan for this year while researching and building my comp car. It gives me time to reflect on past mistakes as a driver, and learn from them. So the timing will work out well I'm sure. Congrats being a member of ASD Mob, and I wish you the best in your career as a professional driver.

Thanks again for the info.

[5150 Cruiser]

For one better battles up into the main event, the way I proposed bracketing it anyway. No more Cyrus Martinez vs Tyler Mcquarrie snooze fests..

Matching up cars with similar engine displacement and cylinders does not make for better battles. Experience and a properly built car do.

c Secondly, isn't claiming a 3rd place in class sound a hell of a lot better to a sponsor then 18th place in the season? ..[/QUOTE]

Not when there only 3 cars in said class. And sponsoring isn't just about winning. Yes, they do like to see trophies, but what they really want is to see consistency. Show up to every event and put there parts to use.

Not trying to sound like a broken record, but this is the big leagues. Is you can't compete, then maybe you need to stay in the minors until you can and keep practicing. Not everyone is going to have a third or better placing. Someone is going to place first, and someone is going to be 20th. That's just how it works in racing.

Thirdly a lot more sponsor opportunities, individual sponsors for each class I.E. "Castrol Edge Turbo Class" ..

Unless this sponsor is going to pay your full way, that alone isn't to be an incentive for someone to completely change there build up.

Oh really? One minute someone is saying FD is the best most professional series in the world blah blah everyone else needs to step up and evolve blah blah. But when the subject of classes show up it goes to FD being to broke (lack of sponsors) and not enough entries for classes. Which one is it, is FD a drifting power house or still a developing sanctioning body?..

Do you know another drift series that is better? Another that promotes drifting on a professional level? That brings drifting events across the U.S. for the fans to enjoy first hand on a professional level?

No one at any point said FD is perfect. I'll be the first to admit that it is far from it. But as it grows, it will get better. So which is it? Its both.

OK... lets compromise. Since revising tandem, organizing classes, and limiting tires is off everyones tables here is another idea I just thought of *coughstolefromalmsandgrandamcough*.

Lets limit the production vehicles that can be ran.

Mustang
Camaro
370Z
Genesis Coupe
FR-S


Lets limit the teams who can actually build the vehicle

ASD
Blu808
CFR
RMR
Greddy

Lets slim down the tire suppliers and models used

Falken RT-615K
Hankook Ventus R-S3
Nitto NT05

In return this will force any privateer team to buy a prebuilt car from any of these existing factory teams (yes I know blu808 isn't a factory team). And use only one of the three proven tire brands and models to compete on. Therefor everyone is virtually running the same thing, or at least one of the same things. It will be up to each team to figure out the proper setup, they can share information if needed. And of course up to the teams to find the sponsors to facilitate such programs.

Lets face it this is virtually what every sanctioning body does using production vehicles (along with classes I might add).

Let the contradictory crying and whining begin...well maybe except for Ian, this will expand ASDs program and fatten their pockets dramatically .

One bad idea after another. I'm honestly not trying to start a war with you Bebop as you obviously have knowledge of the sport, but you seem to be the one who is whining. One minute your pissed because the sport you grew up with is being bastardized, but then you want to limit the cars and builders.
We don't need to make things an even playing field just to give the little guys a leg up. Drivers need to learn to drive at professional levels. If drivers want to compete at professional levels then they need to build pro level cars, or find a builder that can. You really thing that limiting the type of cars and builders competing is going to make for a better series?everyone has to start somewhere and if there dedicated they will grow. As the sport evolves so will FD. And when the sport evolves, so should the drivers and machines competing.

[Bebop]

How am I the one whining when I'm the only one willing to compromise and propose an idea that FORCES teams to possess a "properly built car"? What do you know another contradiction...

And yeah I respect FD from a business standpoint... but I much prefer Prodrift and D1 from a competition standpoint.

I'm willing to compromise while most others are just urging everyone to ride out the wave of horrible competition. Well that surf ain't getting calmer folks.

[Jeff Jones]

I think this happens in all other racing to. You have the top ten funded teams in front all year and the rest following drying to brake out of the back of the pack. With drifting it is different. You have 1st place going up against 32nd place directly. Of course this will look unfair. Maybe there should be no top 32 and go back to top 16 tandem.

You can not expect a privateer to come into FD and kill it his first day with out funding. The guys on top now have years of experiences, funding,sponsors and skill. If a rookie could come to the sport and wen his first day, it would not be a competitive sport worth doing.

Do you really think this


Will beat this with just the same tires.

There is a bit more to it.

With that said, I think Odi had a great year for a true rookie on a budget. Mad props to him.


Also don't forget that some teams go to the track a week or days be for the event to get the car setup and practice. so limiting the tires just on race day would hurt the privateers.


One of the few rules I would want to change is the qualifying order.
When we line up it go's from last to first. So as a judge you already think its going to suck, then get better with each driver that come out.
If it was random a judge would have a more unbiased decision.

[boxmod]

I think this happens in all other racing to. You have the top ten funded teams in front all year and the rest following drying to brake out of the back of the pack. With drifting it is different. You have 1st place going up against 32nd place directly. Of course this will look unfair. Maybe there should be no top 32 and go back to top 16 tandem.

You can not expect a privateer to come into FD and kill it his first day with out funding. The guys on top now have years of experiences, funding,sponsors and skill. If a rookie could come to the sport and wen his first day, it would not be a competitive sport worth doing.

Do you really think this


Will beat this with just the same tires.

There is a bit more to it.

With that said, I think Odi had a great year for a true rookie on a budget. Mad props to him.


Also don't forget that some teams go to the track a week or days be for the event to get the car setup and practice. so limiting the tires just on race day would hurt the privateers.


One of the few rules I would want to change is the qualifying order.
When we line up it go's from last to first. So as a judge you already think its going to suck, then get better with each driver that come out.
If it was random a judge would have a more unbiased decision.

Top32 is still more fun to watch than just more qualifying to get from 32 to 16. and the experience of running vs the big dogs is what improves people, not driving more solo runs. you need to follow their lines/speed/aggression.

a privateer should not be coming in hoping to win, they should be coming in hoping to improve and learn.

[Lifer]

How am I the one whining when I'm the only one willing to compromise and propose an idea that FORCES teams to possess a "properly built car"? What do you know another contradiction...

And yeah I respect FD from a business standpoint... but I much prefer Prodrift and D1 from a competition standpoint.

I'm willing to compromise while most others are just urging everyone to ride out the wave of horrible competition. Well that surf ain't getting calmer folks.

I see you are heavily influenced by the culture of Japanese motorsports.

I really like D1 style competition too, but we are in the USofA so we don't really get to have that as a National Competition. American Culture of motorsports, as I'm sure you know, has a different take on any new motorsport that reaches our shores. Did you know before it was called NASCAR, or even started showing up at ovals, they started as a rally style format? I'm a huge WRC Rally fan. Why don't they ever hold an event here when Ford is one of the WRC's primary cars? Our hold on stadium style events caters to the average American fan. NOT because of NASCAR, but its just they way the majority of people are who will pay money. They can sit down with a beer and fries just to watch cars slip n' slide all over the place, spin around barrels, go in circles for hours, or just beat themselves stupid in an open lot or figure 8 with frantic screaming/roaring of cars and crowds. Sounds silly in black and white, BUT when you are there, IN person, with an open mind, you see why people love it so much.

FD was just in the right place at the right time to capitalize on drifting. Bring in a bunch of go fast guys from around the USofA and well...what did you think was going to happen. Yeah we all loved InitialD and we all watched Option VHS videos WAY back in the day, but we were hotheaded Americans, in our 20's, with borderline psychotic ambitions to mimic or surpass what we saw in those videos. Not that we didn't like or respected what the Japanese opened to us, we just wanted to do it a little bit differently.

It will be a long time before we see any real dramatic change in the way drifting is evolving in the USofA. Like I stated in a previous post. It will get to the point where the entire FD top 32 is cars of the ASD Falken caliber. FD will stay in a class of its own. New series like XDC will evolve and open for a different class, maybe like more grassroots guys who are very skilled with a competitive car but are not big-name sponsored. Then you got events like Vegas Drift where you make the big jump from open drift night to an actual FD sponsored Proam competition.

Drifting is not the kind of sport that needs dividing into classes like road racing. It needs to get more Pro level Performance Shops and BIG name sponsors to build its future. FD will never forget its roots and will always support the Proam in a larger scale. Maybe A ladder system sponsored by the Pro teams for top grassroots drivers to make the move into PRO drifting. ASD is on this track already.

Bottom line- I respect your opinions Bebop, even when you were Blaze1.
I see where you are coming from, and I wish there was a series that could copy all of D1's rules. I'm sure there is a large number of people who feel the same as you, and will want to be apart of a series like that...maybe some day man. Who knows I could be completely wrong and that's fine, as long as I can drift and go to competitions I'll be happy.

Till then I hope you can see where I'm coming from
Long Beach is just around the corner so from one drifting fan to another...lets just have a beer and enjoy some drifting man!

[Bebop]

From a fan point of view top 16 was alot more entertaining then top 32. The drama and anticipation of somebody not making top 16 if they didn't throw down a awesome qualifying run was exciting. Yea there were a few bus length battles back then but now I gotta sit through 16 of them, after a day of lackluster strategic qualifying runs. I cant really think of anyone who has really benefited from T32. The same guys sucking pre 2009 still suck today, and the same winning pre 2009 are still winning today.... well except for Sam.

I think a privateers job is to ruin someones weekend and gain more fans. The stuff the big dogs are teaching can be learned without squatting a spot on the bracket. There is nothing honorable about showing up purposely unprepared. The "Im just happy to be here" post loss speach is getting old.

@lifer

Yes I'm heavily influenced by the japanese drift culture. But honestly I dont want classes and do not feel its needed if FD was judged more so like PD and D1. I do feel its a viable option for the american style drifting that FD has produced over the years. But Im willing to compromise, that's why I suggest making everyone compete in a approved and proven chassis and tire engineered by a proven program. See you at long beach!