American Drifting heading the wrong direction?

[mranlet]

Originally posted by A.YEN
than on TV.... its not about the TV, its about improving your skills. like i said youll be buying a new car everyother month. Drive the mountain for pleasure. Everyone know thats what its for, not to loose your life.

That was my pot shot at commercialism in America, dedicated to the origins of the sport.

I couldn't agree with you more, Andy

I always say "its no fun if you're dead" - this alone says enough about my stance toward street driving.

I don't care is an event or driver is on TV or not. I'm not all about boycotting anyone who isn't hardcore underground - if the skill and attitudes of the drivers are good, of course I will come to the events. I do care who I'm giving my money to, but if an org like Formula D or D1 is putting on a great event I will gladly contribute! (the quality and business creedo of APC parts is another story...)

I'd still rather be on the mountian than on TV though

-MR

[malcolm]

Like I said before..... the biggest rule that is needed is the following:

-all suspension mounting points MUST remain in the stock locations.

(therefore you can't bring a tubeframe car to a drift event because the suspension isn't in a stock location.)

also, here are some others I have thought of....

-must use production lower a-arms on the front suspension

-curb weight of the car must be greater than 85% of the original, production model's curb weight.

(therefore even if the car is a semi-tubeframe, it will have no weight advantages)

If all these rules were brought into place, then costs would plumet. It would make it a lot easier for a smaller team to put together a winning car.

The rule about the stock mounting points comes to mind from the Speed WC GT series. They made a rule change that allows the teams to move the suspension locations a maximum of one inch in any direction from stock. Now Schnitzer in Germany is using their computers and advanced programming to find the ultimate suspension mounting points. They send the info to PTG, and they fabricate the necessary bits. Now the car is 2 seconds quicker. Three years ago, I could have had a decent chance in that series (we run what amounts to a father-and-son racing team, but we've got help from some sponsors). But now that the factory teams can use their big budgets to make the cars faster, we have no chance. Cadillac is spending 9 million dollars over two years to just RUN the cars, nevermind building them.

Before, there were still teams with huge budgets. The difference was that three years ago, sufficient rules were in place to keep the factories from building cars that we couldn't compete with. Now the rules have been relaxed due to pressure from the factories. Now, costs are so high that anyone with a reasonable budget will be lucky to finish second-last.

What I am trying to say is that this has to be avoided in drifting. Factories can be allowed in drifting, but we NEED rules in place to keep them in check with reality.

We can't let them build 1000 bhp, 1700 lb, tubeframe cars with tires that are 425 mm wide. The factories will do this. They don't care about ruining series. Wanna know how many racing series that Porsche has killed? More than I can count... They go in, find all the loop-holes in the rules, and build a dominant car. With drifting, it will be difficult to do that, but they will eventually. We just need rules in place to prevent them from ruining major-league drifting.

[Ghost of Duluth]

You are exactly right. Our scene will never be like Japans. That is why it needs to become American. Sure you can't go round just a-Drifting all over like a Bobby Labonte at the Bristol. The police see that and tend to get angry really quick. Specially when you do it at John Q Mall in South Potato Iowa. See, in Japan, the majority of Drifting happens out in the middle of nowhere on the top of a mountain. From talking to people, the novice guys stay near the bottom while the better guys get higher up until the best guys are at the top. It also happens late at night, a time that alot of you can't stay out past. (No offense but them there's the laws). So police tend to let that slide. Plus the whole attitude and culture in Japan is different. People take responsibility for what they do. Here in America, the police HAVE to save young Dan Drifter from himself because he will wreck his car, sue someone or cry to his mommy and she will call a congressman or the chief of police and, well, you know the rest. Also, watch the Drifting. They are very organized and respectful of other drifters AND oncoming traffic. Meaning they don't just get all happy feet and bust a move without first having the road checked out ahead and posting people with radios to warn. Unlike here where your friend dares you to do this and the ol "Hey, Watch this, Bubba's gonna Deerift"" final words come out.

Drifting needs voices. Voices that will steer it in a direction that is a happy medium for everyone involved. Drifters, sponsers, law enforcement, companies....everyone. That is the only way it will grow and we as drivers will prosper. I think there needs to be a drivers league, a union of sorts. With a go between and a mediator and the whole shabang. You guys at the pro level need to band together now, while it's still early and build the foundation. If you do not, then this is a million head monster that has a voice for each head. Nothing gets done that way. Elect a president, speaker, treasurer, all that stuff. Make a site, newsletter and have meetings (when you can) to make a difference in the sport. Only with strength and planning can you effect rule changes and car specifications or any of that. One voice is overlooked in a choir, but when they all sing together, it's beauty.

[dae]

heres one problem i see with our drift scene. If you get caught on the streets you are fked in a big way. in japan its no biggy. and this is why i dont think we will ever catch up with the japanese ( at least not your average drifters ). Maybe the bigtime pros can. But our scene will never be like japans =/

[Coiloverkid]

HAHAHA look what i found

[AlexPfeiffer]

Ghost of Duluth, Thanks!!

[A.YEN]

the main point i want to make is that we really have to stick together as a group of drifters..... i always tell alex that to group is so small and sometimes it just gets ugly. And with the A, B , C, licening stuff its been thought out when we all sat around one day, but how do we approch it? still working on it. i know the promoters need to make money back but it really is unfair sometimes to compet with higher level cars. dont know.

but any ways hope we as all the us drivers keep drifting and one day show the JDM whats up

someone said that they rather bo on mountain than on TV.... its not about the TV, its about improving your skills. like i said youll be buying a new car everyother month. Drive the mountain for pleasure. Everyone know thats what its for, not to loose your life.



drive safe everyone ANDY YEN SWINGBattle

[Ghost of Duluth]

I agree with Alex. Licenses are needed. All people need to be able to compete. The only way you can get better is to be around people that are better as far as I am concerned. If you just run with yourself then your learning curve is alot slower than someone that has people to learn from. More events, more classes and maybe even a school at events put on by some of the better drivers like yourself would also be a great idea. That way you can teach people the right way to do the basics so that they do not learn on, say, some dark street in the middle of the night.

American Drifting is going to be just that, American. Nothing is wrong with that, it is just different. Unlike Adam who seems to think that Americans are just stupid, get no respect and ruin everything (Tool), I think that we just personalize things that we do. America is not Japan, we do things differently and tend to over do it. Matter of fact, that's my personal moto. "If you are gonna do it, overdo it" Companies see this as well. Rhyss said it in his article. He is right too. For Drifting to take a big hold here, it needs to appeal to other than a handful of people driving Corollas and 240's. If not, then it will fade away into obscurity. While most of you all would like that so you don't get noticed by the law or whatever, it's too late for that now. They know and tough titty on that. Companies want to use this sport for their gains, what's new about that?. With those gains come better products, better sponserships and better events. So if you don't like all of that then don't buy the products, don't take the sponserships and don't go to the events. Because they are brought to you by the same companies that you do not like "pimping" out Drifting. It's a catch 22.

Alex and Andy. I think it's a great idea for you all to be posting. Bring more drivers. You guys are the ones that can tell it like it is and shed some guiding light to the masses. Drifting needs the people on the forefront to share knowledge with the people that are following. Oh and BTW, I thought you outdrove Sam and even though he had the clear pass, you outdrove him. Awesome driving. I was in thr crowd and almost wet myself just watching it. The crowd was also right behind me wetting theirselves too.

[miatadrifter]

Don’t apologize, I was kind of "wowed" myself. It is nice to see a non-elitist attitude. Bravo Alex!

[yarzan]

sry about the above post, that sounded so noob.

[yarzan]

Andy and Alex, is it really you?? if it is i think it's awesome that you guys actually talk here. wow!

[MrodDrft]

i wanna see the japanese drivers take out the GTO or Mopar viper. Like Nob or Kumakumbo

[nissanguy_24]

I have to say Alex thats an excellent idea. I know theres alot of amateur guys who would like some wa to compete. We have practice days but no actualy form of competition in many cases.

It would draw in more people too to see there local guys and friends drifting cmpetitively. I still dont want the high end to get too crazy you know, i'd say stick with stock chassis, regular production cars. That kind of thing, And keep the prize money relatively low. i say relatively low because i think MIllion dollar prize purses will cause companys to spend hundreds of thousands on cars. Keep it about where it is today maybe alittle more advanced in that aspec and we should have a very healthy drifting community.

Things will always change over time but we try to have it change or not change in a manner we all like. And maybe down the road future fans can change it into what they like.

[mranlet]

Originally posted by mranlet
I am fine with anybody spending any amount of money, but at least break it up into different classes

...way to steal my idea Alex

-MR

[AlexPfeiffer]

We as drifters want to separate the competitions. I have been talking to as many people about this. To make different classes, not too much regulating the cars, but the drivers levels. As Andy mentioned, we really dont care about running against crazy built cars, its not the car that wins but the driver. The more you build your car, the harder it is to drive and you should only improve your car as your skill improves.

I proposed to have different licences. Say A, B and C groups.

A Licence would be the guys with the sponcers and the right gear to run tandom. Travel the country doing the main events and pushing drifting into the next level.

B Licence, These are the guys wanting to get A licence but are still more privateer. Maybe run In a couple of the larger events durring a year but are still learning the ropes.

C Licence, These are the local, grassroots level guys who want to compete for fun with each other. Doesnt have to have all the modifications to run tandom but still want some competition experience.

By having the licences, we would beable to separate the competitions and give everyone a better chance of having someplace to compete. It would give the locals a chance to run on the same track that the higher end drivers/cars run on but do it in their own group. The fans love to see local tallent run. It would keep the track running longer and more. It would give the A licence guys time to work on their cars in between run groups. It will showcase the more tallented drivers and help the B licence guys move up into the A licence group if they have the skill and they wish to move up.

At Drift Showoff in houston, they did not allow the higher end cars to run in teh comp but let them demo, because there is such a great difference in driver skill levels. The same guys shouldnt win every competition and there needs to be a place for locals to compete. Driftshowoff did a good job at keeping it real that way. It sucked for the guys who went there thinking they could compete but if they did say have a licence then throw them together in their own competition which would be just as good to watch as a demo. Tandom battles are cool to watch and it helps showcase tallent.

Think I've writen enough