Need steering help....

[Jigoku Z]

Hey my name is Kei... This is my first time posting... Go easy on if I ask any stupid questions or break any rules...

I've been reading up on drifting for a while now just recently I've found a place where I can "drift". The only bad / good think about the place is that it's all gravel. I drive a S13 with a open diff. Everytime if I let my rear end slide at a wider angle, I would spin out. I'm not really sure if it's my steering or it's my open diff. I've tried to give it alittle more gas and counter steer at a smaller angle to correct the problem and it works on and off... And another problem I have is straighten back the wheels. I always end up with car jerking side to side movement....What should I do can anyone give me some pointers?

The type of drift I'm doing right now is feint. I've tried the e-brake but for some reason it my rear wheels just don't seem to be locking up on black top.... and I've just adjusted them...

sorry... I know this is more than one question... and I've tried to search for steering help... but all I've ever find was "should I spin the wheel or turn it" or something like that...

[rb20]

Gravels a good place to start, or a wet road.
Try get an lsd fitted viscous, anything lsd is better than no lsd.
If you find your self spinning out just slow down and take it easier. Try drifting at a really slow speed or experiment doing doughnuts like nadine toyoda said try big round ones and tight round ones itll teach you good car control. Try the clutch kick its a good technique to learn from- just go into the corner then clutch in, revv and drop drop the clutch do this a few times till you get sideways and start to counter equivalent to how sideways you are and then heres the trick-just go easy on the throttle, youre just learning you cant expect to get a great amount of angle till youve learned how to let the steering hold the loose rear end properly. So yeah just take it easy on the throttle the more carried away you get the harder youre going to spin out, and go get your handbrake cable tightened by a mechanic if its not breaking traction simple as that.

[Jigoku Z]

Hey... RB20... thanks for taking the time to reply...

I'll try what you said tomorrow night... Is drifting on gravel much different from drifting on black top?

The thing is since I don't have an LSD. Many things that happen when I try to drift. I don't know if it's because of my techinques or because of the open diff. Is it prossible to do a donut with a open diff? Because when I try to do it.. it would start out great, then all the sudden spin out...

and I'm sure I adjust the e-brake correctly... I think it's new some new pads....

Thanks again for all your help....

[A_R_T_Overloard]

you do need to watch throttle. if youve ever looked into it. gasing a rwd around a corner will cause you to spin out, if your unable to keep fine control of it.

[rb20]

Just focus on getting that lsd get a viscous or lock it completly if you dont want to splash out on a mechanical, do your best with doughnuts and such with the open diff for the mean time, an open should be fine on the gravel, Ive never had the pleasure of driving a 240 as we dont get them down here in nz but trying on an open diff is better than doing nothing.
ART banged the nail on the head-you need to keep fine control of that throttle.

[Piner]

Bah LSD is for n00bS!! lol j/k. yeah I learned to drift on gravel cause it was the only place that i could find that was safe.

I could give you some pointers but not over the internet im not good at writing down what to do. If i lived near you i'd come out and help you but alas no.

[Buddyworm]

Practice, practice, practice man, you're off to a good start. Practice throttle modulation, if you're spinning out and your at opposite lock it means you're gassing it too much or not beginning to countersteer soon enough. It may, in fact, be a case of both.

Once you've got your throttle and steering control worked out, then you can start to worry about tail stability when it comes back behind the car. Practice gradually unwinding your steering wheel and maybe giving a little extra gas to keep the tail from snapping back in line. You've just got to get a feel for your car and the way it behaves.

B-Wurm

[Jigoku Z]

I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate all your posts... I know good advise are hard to find... and I value every advise I get....

I've been practicing every night just about... last night I've finally got the hang of it... I've tried the clutch kick, but with my stock clutch the gripping force is just not there ( also my clutch master has a leak)... So mostly all I've done is feint, e-brake, powerover.

Last night I realised few things that I've been doing wrong... one was over correcting the drift. Two, I throttled way too much... Three, I was too excited

So to correct the problems I had... I tried to let the wheel spin more.. and that tend to work very well when I want to straighten back up.... Second, I've tried to feather the throttle and let go of the gas.. Third, after all the "drifting" I've done in the past week.. I'm not scare or having shaky hands. I tend to be more relax.... and that out of all helped the most...

I'm going to a junk yard this weekend, looking for a stock diff. to be welded. I've read all the good, bad and ugly about welded diff. and right now I'm desperate and have no money...welded diff has to do for now...

oh just today.. I drove through the place where I practice drifting... I noticed that many of the rocks and gravels are disappering rather quickly.... lol.. it seems like that I might need to find another place pretty soon....

But thanks again... I couldn't have done it with you guys at Drifting.com...

[Drift For Food]

^winner

Do what he said, and you'll be fine. If you're spinning out it's because you are giving too much throttle and/or not countersteering enough or perhaps soon enough to catch the rear end initially.

With a rwd car, if the rear end is getting away from you, let off the gas and steer into the slide. This keeps the car from spinning out. The rear will regain traction and you can straighten out the steering wheel as the rear end rebites. In time, this action will become second nature.

You also have the opposite problem, the rear end grabbing quickly. The only way to fix this is to keep the rear end upset. If you find the rear end wanting to regrab, try pumping the throttle some to keep the rear tires from regaining traction. Clutch kick can do the same thing. As well, steer into the corner a little more(less countersteer). This will add more sideways force and hopefully keep the rear end out.

What you mentioned as problems really are the two extremes, pretty much opposites of each other. How you fix one problem is how you make the other extreme work the way you want it to. It does really come down to practice and getting a good feel of your car and learning to feel the front and rear traction limits seperately. You're blending throttle and steering together to get both the front and rear ends to match each other when you both start and end a drift. In time, things will work.

Gravel's a good place to start. It offers a surface that is easier to get sideways on with a lower powered car. Also, the harsh forces on the car and the wear of the tires are greatly reduced. As far as technique and what you do, there really is no difference between gravel and asphalt. It's basically a matter of available traction, in a simplistic sense at least. Packed gravel can even provide near asphalt grip, however, the loose stuff is where the fun's at. Freshly graded roads are heaven on earth. I don't care for the packed type too much other than grip driving. I still drift my stock Subbie on the stuff, but she just doesn't like it much. The suspension just isn't right stock nor does it have the power for that level of grip. It's doable, but she much prefers something a little looser. It's why I tend to stay off asphalt myself, that and wear. It's nice running on a single set of tires for a year. You can't do that on asphalt.

About the only thing I'd suggest is getting a good set of tires that can bite well. Despite being gravel, good steering response and the ability to toss the car and brake is benificial. Tire choice is a little different than street performance. I'm not saying truck tires here or rally tires, just something with some agressive tread to be able to bite onto the gravel, something that inspires confidence even over loose patches.

[rb20]

Welded diff-good man round of applause thats the way, I wanted to suggest it but I know how others wouldve reacted to me giving such advice-its what Ive done in the past and it fine just got to be a little careful when driving around normally, Best of luck.

[Jigoku Z]

What's next?

well... I've got the hang of my car. I would give myself 7 out of 10. But all I've done was just sliding... what's my next step should be? I've heard someone saying driving/drifting in a figure 8... should that be my next step?

for the record.... Doing small donut with a open diff. is very possible....

[Buddyworm]

Good stuff Zig. Keep it up. Eventually you'll get used to your car going where it isn't pointed and the adrenaline won't flow as much. But it's still no less fun and I still get goosebumps sometimes.

Another good way to learn throttle modulation is to get a pylon and practice doing controlled donuts around it. Get your nose as close to the cone as you can without touching it. Try it in first gear, then move on to second. Then once you've got the hang of it you can move on to people

B-Wurm

[turbo_blitz21]

Ok I been drifting for a while now and when I first started out with an open dif you tend to have better luck making left hand drifts due to the tire thats powering the drift is on the inside. Focus on throttle control when you enter. And as soon as you whip your car to the left counter steer and just tap on the throttle. Right hand drifts with an open dif are dif. You get wheel hop and you will get lots of oversteerl So thats when you clutch kick or use the ebrake to whip the car back to the left. You might want to focus on stiffing up your ride. Get strut bars and sway bars and if you dont have suspension than get that too. But yeah just remember as soon as you initiate the drift and want to whip it around use throttle and you weight transfer. And if all fails clutch or ebrake. hope it helps. If I said anything that someone else said than sorry lol!

[Drift For Food]

Just curious, how is right or left drifts different in terms of using an open diff? I know a person naturally reacts differently depending on if they are turning left or right. I think it's the difference in perception from having the driving position over to one side of the car. However, I don't see how the diff comes into play. Are you saying the power is transfered to the left and right tires differently?

[turbo_blitz21]

Yeah the left tire is the one putting the power down to the ground and the right has no power. Therefore you would want your left tire to be pushing you out instead of your right tire.