FF drifters help!!

[Menchi]

wow, I thought this post was dead, thanks for all the replys, I'm still out every night trying to prefect it but I just can't visualize what dirty85 is talking about, when I drift I do basically what ther drift king does, I approach a curve on the outside, break and shift the wieght to the nose and steer in a little to move the momentum of the car into the turn, the second I lift off the break I yank the E-break and quickly counter steer, lately have been expierimenting with how fast I should counter steer and how soon to pull out, well, all 4 wheels are usually sliding and abit after the apex I hit the gas, which I think would be more effective in a RWD car, because the tires only spin, even though understeering the front is necessary in a drift I think Ghost of Duluth is right when he says that that technique used on a FF car will slow you down too much, baaaaa, I'm rambling on again oh well, I hope to see your illustration thanks

[Drift For Food]

Why do you countersteer?

I'm just curious cause the back really isn't going anywhere. You throw it out, but it comes right back. Unless you really chuck the rear end out or use the e-brake way too much, I've found no reason to countersteer.

I guess it depends what you're trying to do with the car: what angle you're sliding at and what line you're taking. Still throttle does the same thing.

Yeah, the Drift King method is good for the first half of the corner, but as soon as you're suppost to give it gas, you can't. The only thing you can do to emulate the same thing is use more e-brake. The behavior throttle provides is the opposite with a FF. With rwd, throttle brings the rear end out. With a fwd, it brings the front end out.

[Nemesis]

you countersteer to guide the slide...if ur going at a high speed and yank the brake your gonna do a 180 or even 360, you have to countersteer even in a ff to guide the slie in the direction you wanna go. you go try it, get into a civic and hit a turn going 45 mph and pull the ebrake and don't countersteer...see how much of a nice slide you get...

[Menchi]

nemisis said it for me, I usually go into a turn at about 45-50mph when I practice, and if you remember the 180 cone manuver in the drift bible, thats what happens when you don't counter steer, I've improved alot lately, thanks for everyones help. now I need to figure out how to make my drifts wider and control them more, I think for wider drifts the obvious answer is more speed, I just need to figure out how to control the rear mid drift, which will take alot more pracitce. I need an alignment too

[Drift For Food]

I see, it's just a difference in technique. I unfortunately have two problems. First, I don't have a useful e-brake. Both the cars I drifted had foot ones, yay, and one actually stuck on Second, I only drift on gravel. Neither vehicle is suited (barely capable) of drifting on pavement. This means, I can use throttle to control the front end easier. On pavement unless you're pushing high hp, you're not going to use it to break the front end loose. Also with the high grip, throttle becomes a greater factor in car behavior.

Second, me using feint and you using e-brake changes the drift behavior(a little bit). I do use a small amount of countersteer but not much and only to correct my angle from either feinting too little or too much and from too little or too much throttle(front end slide). I only do this near the end of the corner for fine tuning. The rest is done with feint and then some weight shift through throttle/braking.

Still, since you have to force the rear end to slide, there's no reason to worry about it from getting away from you. It will always follow the front...well as long as you're not braking I guess, hehe. The need to contersteer, in my eyes at least, means you kept the e-brake on too long or feinted too much or braked too hard into the corner. This is where you get into spinning out if you don't countersteer.

I can't really argue too much. Everyone has their style. There's no one way to do it.

[CRASHDRIVE]

Originally posted by Menchi
now I need to figure out how to make my drifts wider and control them more, I think for wider drifts the obvious answer is more speed, I just need to figure out how to control the rear mid drift, which will take alot more pracitce.

This is when the FR setup comes In. That's why most FF cars drifting can only sustaine so much momentum and cannot drift as long as the FRs. Yes, speed is the answer to achive that longer drift but how fast do you really want to go to achive that desirable drift that you want?

[Drift For Food]

Yeah, without throttle, you can't sustain speed, the downfall of fwd. To make a wide drift, I guess all you can really do is come in fast and brake the whole way through. The brake will keep the rear end loose. Since you can't just start hitting the gas like a rwd halfway through the corner, you're stuck braking all the way through, at least for a wide drift.

You may consider suspension tuning or smaller tires on the rear to get the rear end a little easy to stay out. That way, you're not using up so much speed to maintain a drift. You can use more throttle.

[ProjectD]

uhm yeah thats y most people dont drift FFs, they lose too much speed butt dragging

[Nemesis]

jus get some civic HJX rims and inflate the tire to 45psi....muahaha....

[CRASHDRIVE]

Well?...

Well?...

Any progress on your endeavor?
There are some FF drifters here, I bet they would love to hear your point of view?

[CrazyHawaiian]

Here's a few things I've seen work:

1. Insane entry speed. Like others have said, its kind of crazy, but you need more entry speed than a RWD car because your momentum needs to carry you through the turn. You should always be entering the turn faster than the RWD guys.

2. Weight transfer. Other have mentioned the feint and I think its very important for FF drifting. Get the weight of the car on the rear tires, because if the weight shifts to the front you will lose your momentum.

3, Throttle through the turn. Through mid turn, you will want to use alot of throttle to keep the momentum going. But applying the throttle will make the rear tires want to re-grip, so while applying throttle, use the E-Brake to keep the rear tires sliding. Like throttle control on a RWD, you need to have handbrake control for FF (up down up down up down). Hard to imagine, but think of the front tires as providing more momentum (pulling the car through the turn), and the rears as dead weight (hence the *Censored**Censored**Censored* drag terminology). Key is to keep the weight on the rear tires as long as possible.

4. Correct tire selection. Keeping the above methods in mind, the fronts need to have enough grip to pull you through the turns, while the rears need to provide as little resistance as possible. This is Key!

5. Good suspension tune. Car needs to be tuned to induce oversteer all the time. You should be able to kick the rear out using a feint and no ebrake.

Just some stuff I've observed from watching and riding with FF drifters.

[Menchi]

after many months of practice I think crazyhawiian has got it, that is exactly what I do, but my suspension isn't modified, so, the monentum from the body roll snaps back and it sucks to regain control, but I hold the wheel strainght and pray. and how do you suggest I keep the weight on the rear tires, acceleration??

[HasNoTiresLeft]

Menchi my friend, i too was like you, i was a FF drifter... then i got my 240sx heh But ill see if i can help you with my past FF experience.

I found that if i wanted to perform a longer drift, my entry speed had to be much faster than normal, and due to the fact that its FF u will have to use the e-brake to simulate RWD. I say simulate because if your rear end doesnt stay out, then you begin to stop drifting and start gripping. Even still with the rear end out, the problem with this is : the rear wheels arent pushing you

So higher entry speed, and depending on how long the curve is, you basically have to use repeated side braking to make sure the rear end stays out, and while doing this, the counter-steer will become less and less, because u will be loosing speed. I always found that if my car was at the right angle upon entry and i didnt have to correct it mid-drift, i wouldnt loose as much speed. I dont know if youve tried this or not but, its kinda how FR guys use the e-brake to correct their angle.

As far as keeping the weight on the rear wheels, i think pretty much the only thing u can do is accelerate, because u have to throttle throught the curve so, i think the weight would transfer to the rear. Or ya could get a big guy to sit in the back and then move back to the front lol

I dont know if i explained this right, cause some of my usage of terms might be off, lemme know if this helps.

*Edit* Just read Crazy Hawaiian's post and yeh he kinda explained it better than me i think

[Menchi]

I'll see what I can figure out with the entry angle, tomorrow, I'm looking for a drift ride, but I think it will have to double as a daily driver, I was thinking a 240 would be good, because there are plenty of spare parts for repairs, but the cops around here are starting to look for 240 pilots. aaaahh who cares, I'll get what ever I find laying around