FF Drift...help, newbie and FF, uh oh

[Liro]

im definately interested in knowing more, im not on aol though...are you on msn?

i will pm you with my info....

yeah, i will keep at it....i do feel like im getting closer to being able to drift on pavement....more ebrake and more speed are definately helping....

thanks

[fwdrift]

you got a perfect civic to drift in. and you don't really need that e-brake. when the snow goes away go look for a BIG parking lot hopefully away from major roads or anything that could get you into trouble. then go there late at night and practice drifting.

and i can tell just how to do it without that e-brake.

what you do is you slightly steer towards one way and then yank it in the other way. and then when at the right moment when the steering wheel is tunred the other way while your in the dirft hit the gas in a low gear to give high rpm and it'll bring you right back out with hopefully no trouble. and you can do this at speeds ranging from 40-50+mph. which in my mind is a some what low speed. i'll take most likely a couple of nights of pracicing but once you get it down you'll making people think you driving i RWD car. that's what happened twith my old 86 honda prelude DX.

[Drifting_turtle]

well, sry this is kinda rude but FF cant drift, or at least not real drifting. You can pull that e-brake all you want but no it wont be a real drift. Sure it works on dirt and snow because drifting originated from rally racing and the techniques they use are mostly for FF and AWD.

Make it a track car, drifting is a technique for FR and most of the time isnt faster that grip.

Making it an MR would take to much time and money when you could save and just buy an old FR car.

[fwdrift]

drift_turtle: your talking about power sliding. drifting is were your going around a corner too fast for your tires to grip and thus they loose traction cuasing your rear tires to slip and enertia (can't remember how to spell it) takes over sending your back end of you car towards the outside of a turn. if your good enough to contorl how far it slides you can come out of a corner in a perfect drift.

so if your moving around a corner at a reasonably fast speed and your back end slides out while your front is in that is a drift. it doesn't matter what kind of car it is you can still get it to slide. it's really easy when you know how to do it.

the only real ? is which hanldes better in a drift. FR or FF?

[Drifting_turtle]

too me FR, never tried FF so i dont have much to compare it to.

[HX-50]

Hello all, new to the forums, got a introduction post in the general forums for any interested. Currently i have a 2004 mazda protege' which i drift quite well here's how i do it, first off i had to play with my brake setup a bit ***WARNING!!! do not attempt this if you are new to working on cars, please see someone who knows what they are doing before trying*** ok that said i have my front balance set slightly stronger than my back brakes, also i have a stiffer than usuall suspension, please do not ask me for ratios and the like, i do not really work on cars, but i know many who do, i know enough to tell a mechanic what i want done in layman's terms, he does the rest for me. Now what setting my brakes like that has done is when i depress the pedal the front wheels slow down slightly faster than the rear wheels this creates a temporary rwd car which if i brake hard right before turning into a corner initiates a drift. now here's where it get's tricky, i usually have to heel and toe before entering a corner because when the rear wheels stop spinning faster than the front ones i need to be in the torque band to pull it out of it. This is how i drift my fwd mazda, it does take a lot of practice and you're going to kill a lot of tires, also i do not use this technique often i usually use it in low speed corners, if done properly i find i can carry around the same speed out of a corner as i can going into it. Again, this takes a lot of time and patience to get right, but if you find a nice parking lot to practice in you should get it in no time.

My advice to anyone trying to learn any drift ... make friends with the local tire shop.

Ok well that's my $.02 if anyone would like to know more my contact information is

AIM :bdwaggs40
MSN: bdwaggs@yahoo.com
e-mail: bdwaggs@yahoo.com
and i also rarely use the yahoo messenger, also bdwaggs

[Drift For Food]

Hmm, cars are usually designed to have the rear wheels brake first. It's actually controlled by a valve between the front and rear brakes, a "metering valve" if I remember correctly. Now since yours is disc brakes front and rear, I don't know if they use this anymore.

I kind of thought the Proteges have a good brake balance to begin with, my bro's Protege 5 works very well.

It's true that a stronger front brake will get the front end slower sooner but you lose some braking power by having the front lock up first. Basically, you'll lose steering ability. Setting it to stronger rear braking would make it act more like an e-brake. The rear would tend to lock of easier and slide the rear out. For drifting, braking is more of a method of transfering weight than locking up tires though. With a front strong brake, it probably help to try to slow down the front faster. The rear end would want to overtake the front in a sense. If you start pushing the car hard though, you'd probably find the front locking up some which would make the car just go straight.

The tire shop thing is a good idea. I'll have to remember that, maybe work part time at one, lol.

[chrisfromda909]

actually cars are set up to have more braking power in the front... how would you like to have someone slam on their brakes in front of you and you have to hit them harder... which locks the rear first making the whole back end swing around? youtr brakes are set up for 70% of braking power to the front and 30% of braking power to the front... so i think you are mistaken...

[Drift For Food]

I understand that the primary amount of braking is done with the front, 70% plus. There are set up this way, I know. Still he mention setting them more towards the front that that, say 75-80% maybe. Under heavy braking, this will result in the front locking up a bit before the rear creating a loss of steering.

My truck does this. I hate it. I either brake light to keep the front from locking up or slam the brakes and lock up all of them to actually stop fast. Besides that, yes it's good for safety. Yes it does keep the rear end from sliding out on you when braking, very unsafe. However, too much just isn't necessary. You'll sacrifice braking performance because you can't brake as hard and still maintain steering.

I basically mentioned it cause my brother's Protege 5(hatchback/wagon version of Protege) brake setup is actually pretty good. It was more of an observation than me telling him or anyone it's wrong. I personally like all 4 to lock up at the same time. If it does that, I'm happy.

[HX-50]

Ok to answer the questions about my setup, yes it's at 75% balance. A lot of people really hate this setup, but i like my car this way although it does make my car a pain to anyone who wants to drive it besides me. I use this car as a daily driver but i also autocross it so i have made modest adjustments to help but nothing that will knock me out of stock class. basically as i stated this is how i like to drive but it's not for everyone, also my car is not equipped with an abs system, this means that i have to be a lot more aware when i break. I had to really get to know this car for about 4 or 5 months before i even dared to try any advanced techniques. again this is just my setup, i haven't really seen too many like it, but that's ok to me, i seem to do alright

[kaneda]

from another board i post on:

Quote: from importjenyus on 10:50 am on Mar. 13, 2004[br]i see it as this: a FWD can do a drift, but it cant drift.

i think importjenyus summed it up exactly. you can sideways in somthing front wheeld drive, and you may drift a few corners. but that still doesn't mean front wheel drives can drift.

i think part of the reason people constantly perpetuate this argument is because they don't want to except the limitations of their vehicle. the truth is, every type of drivetrain has it's limitations, fwds usually get the short end of the stick on this.

what's best for rallying? awd and fwd
why? rwd is hard to control on soft surfaces, especially when you have a lot of power

what's best for wangan? rwd
why? fwd doesn't allow power to get down to the ground properly, it's inefficient for high speeds. this is why a 450whp integra wouldn't be able to get above 150mph, but a 450whp supra could easily break 180mph.

what's best for drift? rwd
why? rwd allows you to control the rear wheels, where as with fwd they're basically dead weight. you can move them when you need to, all you can do is lock them up. awds have entirely too much traction, you'll get going sideways pretty well, but then all of the sudden the tires bite and you're pointed straight again.

some vehicle types are good at one thing and suck at another. people just need to accept it, you may get that civic, that cavalier, that protege, etc, sideways, but you'll never get far trying to drift with it. you can always make the argument that you can drift this corner or that corner, but try to drift mulitiple corners or an entire course while holding a line and never having traction in the back wheels. even if you did manage to pull it off, you still aren't going to keep up with your rwd conterparts.

in general, rwd is always the better platform. this is why 95% of all of the world's sports cars are rwd. even the skyline isn't full time awd, as long as there's traction is rear wheels only.

[CrazyHawaiian]

Well I completely disagree. Last time I checked, drifting is maintaining a controlled slide in an oversteered state through multiple turns. It has nothing to do with what type of car is used, and everything to do with driver skill. So you think that because FF cant generate oversteer with throttle its impossible to keep them in an oversteered state? Well you're wrong. I've seen it done and its not all handbrake action either. I have seen FF battle FR on the local mountain, and the FF driver was able to maintain oversteer through the course, and he did have a racing line, and guess what? He also BEAT alot of the FR guys. Why did this happen? It wasnt because he was driving FF. Its because the driver had SKILL. The definition of drifting itself has nothing to with what type of drivetrain the car has. What is comes down to is skill. If the driver has enough skill to control the car in an oversteered state, then thats drifting. By your definition, if the Drift King himself got out of his RWD car and stepped into a FF and started sliding, he wouldn't be drifting. Does that sound right to you? I'm not saying FF is the BEST thing out there, but I'm sick of the FF guys being dissed because FR guys think their drivetrain layout is superior. Get off the high horse already.

[HX-50]

Ok as someone who drives a FF car let me say that i totally agree with kaneda, if you're looking to get into D1 a FF car just won't cut it, that being said, as i stated in my original post, i use a drift technique on low speed corners because it helps me maintain better exit speed in them, also when on dirt i find that drifting is essential (currently i am learning how to rally and if i get a car in time i'll actually get into an event or two this season). All of this being said, it is completly true that i cannot full time drift a FF car, i can powerslide it a lot and pull the e-brake (never tried that seen a few too many people in a ditch from that one *cough or a tree*) but i found a way to give my car the ability to drift in short spans to get around a hairpin in the fastest time. That was the point i tried to make in the original post, i guess i should've cleared that up that the style drift i use is low speed corners. sorry for any confusion

[ProjectD]

Oh i did see an integra DC2 Drift....

FF? no.

IT had a CRV 4wd with the front disabled. RWD. Integra....yep.

[kaneda]

Originally posted by ProjectD
Oh i did see an integra DC2 Drift....

FF? no.

IT had a CRV 4wd with the front disabled. RWD. Integra....yep.

how much power?