About braking before throwing the back out

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by mranlet
That was simplified?

...I just try to be through

-MR

I tried to make it simple. Oh well. I just didnt want to loose the new guys, so i used simple terms. Honestly this *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* is easier to do then describe properly

[mranlet]

Yeah, drifting.com should get an online driving simulator or something - do you think you could hook that up?

In addition:
Mranlet's "Best Mod Ever" Award



-MR

[nissanguy_24]

Nah my programing skills are limited, im more a LAN/WAN guy.

And why is he bowling? maybe its a metaphore... Hes bowling away the threads asking for illegal touge locations?

[mranlet]

...yeah, something like that...

I was thinking more of "pinning the place down"

...it was mainly just a vehucle for me to try and suck up so that we could get a driving simulator. Are you sure we couldn't make one with a few floppy disks and some tape or something?

-MR

[Emagdnim]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
You guys are talking about RPMS and the clutch and wheel speed. None of it maters in a true braking drift.

In the drift bible when Tsuchiya demostrates the brake drift he says the three important things here are when to turn in, when to shift down, and how much you brake, he also goes on to talk about the importantance of what rpm your at when you release the clutch. The technique you described is correct as long you can enter and exit the turn in the same gear. Which is every coner in an automatic, but isn't always the case with a manual.

I don't think any one technique can be consider "true" braking drift as there are too many different circumstances.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by Emagdnim
In the drift bible when Tsuchiya demostrates the brake drift he says the three important things here are when to turn in, when to shift down, and how much you brake, he also goes on to talk about the importantance of what rpm your at when you release the clutch. The technique you described is correct as long you can enter and exit the turn in the same gear. Which is every coner in an automatic, but isn't always the case with a manual.

I don't think any one technique can be consider "true" braking drift as there are too many different circumstances.

Your right, but these guys need to practice gettng the rear out before they worry about staying in the right gear threw a corner. For the more advanced guys its another story. But for first learning it they need to learn that. Or else i fear they are simply going to learn a clutching technique and not the actual braking technique.

[baboon's a$$]

here's a real simple explanation these other guys get WAYYYYY too technical.


this requires left foot braking, if you can't hit the brake without hitting the clutch or gas then you need some practice.

stabbing the break in a quick hard press with your left while turning in will cause the rear to rotate towards the front then modulate the gas paddle to control the drift. It really helps to be in the power band of your car. it should go like this ( well this is how I do it)

1. enter turn at decent speed depending on length and radius second or third is usually best dpepnds on where the power band is on you car.

2. as you turn in stab brake, the front end should dip and the car SHOULD start to rotate.

3. counter-steer and modulate gas (I'll be honest with it's easiest with a good 2-way lsd, that way you get instant lock on both wheels instead of 1 locking first and either spinning you around or causing your car to go straight.)

I coud go on and on about brake balance control and front versus rear bias but it's all just crap. Just go out and have fun. If you're worried about looking good while drifting or totally agonizing over one small facet of a technique then you're in the wrong hobby. Go do some car shows or burnouts or something.

[Drift For Food]

Braking and feint were the first two methods I learned with when I started drifting. Being a fwd boat(Buick Lesabre) and a handy dandy foot e-brake, I didn't have much choice, lol.

To stay simple, braking basically makes the front have more traction and the rear have less traction. This is due to the added weight that you removed from the rear and put on the front. More weight, more traction.

When and how you do it varies depending on the corner. It works before or during steering and even after you've started a drift, and it always does the same thing.

Before - shifts weight to the front. You have to turn immediately after or you will lose the affect, weight will move back and even out quickly.

During - while cornering, probably with a little understeer(have to be near grip limit, i.e. going fast). Brake lightly, weight goes towards front, rear breaks loose and you drift. If it doesn't break loose, brake harder. Brake too hard, front locks up.

After - while drifting you can brake and shift weight forward. Again, you gain more front traction. It's good to get more angle without the use of throttle or if you need to reduce speed while drifting.


Drifting simulator? Live for Speed (LFS) Lots of fun, awesome physics. It's helped me a lot when learning to drift. I was drifting with this for a few months before I ever did anything with my car. Even during, it taught me. Any advanced stuff can be tested virtually and safely as well. 100mph 300 foot braking drift into a corner, go for it. 140mph 360 into a drift around a 60mph corner at 1000 feet with no braking, sure. Fun fun. Demo's free too. Note: it would probably take a good month too get comfortable and decent with the game. Also, a force feedback wheel and pedals are a good thing to have.

[mranlet]

This is not a subject change but rather a simple tangent to the subject. I'd be happy to open another thread discussing this at greater length but I'm sure that there are others out there already:

Gran Tourismo 3, as much as the "purists" will turn up their noses, can really help a young driver learn basic techniques. If you read through the manual you'll see that they discuss things such as braking pre-turn-in and why it helps. I believe that there is also an explaination of the traction circle and how a tire acts under driving forces (GT2's double manuals come to mind, with one explaining how to play the game and the other explaining simple automotive physics). The extremely thorough technical replay mode is great too, as it shows how much steering, throttle, and braking input you are giving and you can see in real time how it effects the car.

Even if you are PS2-less, the $200 it would cost to buy the system and game could be 10x more beneficial than spending $200 on tires and "wreckless driving" tickets (one night for some people). If you combine the exquisite physics engine of the game with guidance from a book like "Going Faster" or "Secrets of Solo Racing" then your understanding of what goes on in a race or drift car will accelerate that much more.

Yeah, maybe GT3 is just a game, but it is a game that is based on extensive research and has been developed by people who know.

-MR

[marshun]

Originally posted by mranlet
This is not a subject change but rather a simple tangent to the subject. I'd be happy to open another thread discussing this at greater length but I'm sure that there are others out there already:

Gran Tourismo 3, as much as the "purists" will turn up their noses, can really help a young driver learn basic techniques. If you read through the manual you'll see that they discuss things such as braking pre-turn-in and why it helps. I believe that there is also an explaination of the traction circle and how a tire acts under driving forces (GT2's double manuals come to mind, with one explaining how to play the game and the other explaining simple automotive physics). The extremely thorough technical replay mode is great too, as it shows how much steering, throttle, and braking input you are giving and you can see in real time how it effects the car.

Even if you are PS2-less, the $200 it would cost to buy the system and game could be 10x more beneficial than spending $200 on tires and "wreckless driving" tickets (one night for some people). If you combine the exquisite physics engine of the game with guidance from a book like "Going Faster" or "Secrets of Solo Racing" then your understanding of what goes on in a race or drift car will accelerate that much more.

Yeah, maybe GT3 is just a game, but it is a game that is based on extensive research and has been developed by people who know.

-MR

yup. gt3 isnt real life. but its physics are right up there. i posted about this before (idunno if it was here) but people got all upset ab out it. and these are the same people who say they can drift. if you can drift with different techniques in gt3, then its easier to apply to real life since you have a better understanding of the physics that go with each technique. im seriously not bullshitting on this.

[Drift For Food]

True, even from a game you can learn. If the physics are right on, the principles can be directly transfered. It's interesting to be able to play a video game, drift a certain way, go out in your car and do the exact same thing...and it behaves the same way! It's kind of cool when you first realize it.

Of course, I do have to make the distinction between the real world and the happy wonderland of games. You mess up in real life, it's your car to the trash heap and you to the hospital. Games can only go so far, limited by the level and accuracy of the physics and the limit of realism that can be portrayed from a computer screen(TV for the PS2'ers), speakers, and a force feedback wheel.

Still, techniques and situations can be tested. You can practice feint, braking, e-brake, power over, etc... in a virtual world that is safe and nearly free(cost of PS2, computer, etc...) without worry of damage or injury. Besides that, they can be loads of fun.

[SilverGhost]

in case it wasnt noted earlier, the racing tech part of the game's handbook was written by those guys down at the Skip Barber Racing School...so its very acurate. the only problem with actual drifting in that game is the physics arent quite right. the one thing it lacks is the continued drift. you cannot do long sweepers in that game because it simply doesnt allow the tires to continuously spin. other than that though, it is an excellent game.

[mranlet]

To get a real good idea of the effects of braking drift and weight transfer, the Mazda 787B is the master of the braking drift. If anyone would like the settings I use I'd be happy to post them, but I don't want this thread to turn into a GT3-fest...

An additional note - with the right setup (or even just the right driver), even FWD's can induce a braking drift.

-MR

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by mranlet
To get a real good idea of the effects of braking drift and weight transfer, the Mazda 787B is the master of the braking drift. If anyone would like the settings I use I'd be happy to post them, but I don't want this thread to turn into a GT3-fest...

An additional note - with the right setup (or even just the right driver), even FWD's can induce a braking drift.

-MR

Yes i agree, i've always felt the real problem with FWD using a braking drift was the weight distribution is usualy not great. 60 : 40 or worse. and i understand your first thought might be "well with more weight on the front wont it be able to do a breaking drift better" not really... i would think stock cars are designed to understeer anyways with there weight bias, whatever it may be (for the most part.. your average civic is a good example) Which just means you have even less weight to transfer to the front.. but with the right setup and a good driver theres no reason why it cant.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by mranlet
To get a real good idea of the effects of braking drift and weight transfer, the Mazda 787B is the master of the braking drift. If anyone would like the settings I use I'd be happy to post them, but I don't want this thread to turn into a GT3-fest...

An additional note - with the right setup (or even just the right driver), even FWD's can induce a braking drift.

-MR

Yes i agree, i've always felt the real problem with FWD using a braking drift was the weight distribution is usualy not great. 60 : 40 or worse. and i understand your first thought might be "well with more weight on the front wont it be able to do a breaking drift better" not really... i would think stock cars are designed to understeer anyways with there weight bias, whatever it may be (for the most part.. your average civic is a good example) Which just means you have even less weight to transfer to the front.. but with the right setup and a good driver theres no reason why it cant.