I've read drifting 101 parts 1 through 3.....

[zdss14]

what about your engine, i read some wear that rally drivers sometimes slide to keep the revs up, will it work on pavement?

[malcolm]

not really... that's more in the category of acceleration, not cornering. They would want to keep their revs up on the exit of the corner, not on entry, which is what I was talking about for the most part...

On asphalt, if you are below your needed rev-range, you should just be in a lower gear. The only exception to that rule that I can think of is a direct-drive vehicle, like a kart, where there is only one gear ratio, and it would be better to modulate the wheel spin rather than to let the engine bog down...

[jasonaries]

ah....you hit on something there, malcolm

Re: drift on entry/grip after apex & real world vs. computer modeling comparisons.

Thanks, Malcolm - that's the kind of stuff I'm fishing for here. I'm hoping to get a good look at both sides of the coin so I can compair what I read to my experiences later when I go out and start trying this stuff. I'm one of those advance planner types who annoys the heck out of people by gathering the whole scoop before diving into something.

[TeamSLIPdrifter]

I have a question about all this. In grip vs. drift on a track its faster without a doubt. but what about when your apex is extremely tight like in a 2 lane mountain pass like the use in some WRC races. Wouldnt it be more benefitial to drift into the apex and grip out. Id imagine you can use alot more speed and the car already rotating and sideways would be very good for the exit. In WRC they always gutter grip and thats how the author of Initial D came up with it. You can see that the inside edge is always slightly raised and they dip the tires in but ive seen drivers like Redd in the old Evo V RS slide into the apex on tight turns without much room. He would use a misfire to keep the turbo spooled and when he gripped the exit of the turn keeping to turbo spooled it let him accelerate extremely fast out. So wouldnt that be a condition where drift is faster then grip? And yes, this was on a paved surface.

[mranlet]

Yeah that happens. That's why there's so much tight drifting in Gymkhana. If you can carry more momentum and rev's through the turns you'll be able to swing around faster. Also by having the accelerative force of the wheels conuteracting the forces of inertia, you can have your car produce more lateral G's (in a roundabout way) by essentially aiming the drive force towards the center of the turn.

A lot of the WRC drivers use drift techniques on tarmac stages that are too tight - it's hot!

-MR

[TeamSLIPdrifter]

Cool, thanks for the help.

[Drift For Food]

Yeah, I've watched WRC and noticed on the tighter corners, even on pavement, they will usually drift it some. I'm not certain the reasone behind it. They are turbo, so keeping revs up may have a part. Also, I'm not sure if their steering angle is limitted any for better control. If so, they may drift because they don't actually have the steer angle to take the corner under grip(although I actually haven't noticed any of them appearing not able to turn sharp enough...). It may be the 4wd platform too. With 4wd, your front tires not only steer but also provide some of the acceleration. Too much throttle durring heavy steering will result in understeer. Drifting tight corners may be their way of preventing understeer and allow the ability for heavy throttle through the corner. It's an interesting concept of the point usefulness between drift and grip. Grip offers more usable traction always. However, little things like dropping revs or having to shift to a lower gear and back up again, may take out some of the advantage of grip when corners get very tight.

[scirocco]

scientifically, trail-braking and power over do allow you to brake and put down power in the exact direction you want, just not as much. Think about it this way: when you decelerate in a straight line, you will be on the edge of grip, if you are very good, when gong through the corner. When you slide, you can be farther into the corner (almost at the clipping point) and just be finished braking. When you power over (step on the gas at corner exit or to continue the drift), you put down power straight down the stretch that comes after the corner exit, past the clipping point. it also keeps you moving on the edge of front tire grip if done properly. its all about physics.

if u dont understand this, just think about this: lap times for keiichi tsuchiya are better the more he drifts (by FULL seconds). How do you think he got the title , the "Drift King"? he drifted in GT500 before anybody did that at all.

if u stil dont get it, there's always the search button and http://www.howstuffworks.com

btw, as soon as the car is straight you want to let of the gas just enough to maintain grip so you can max out your acceleration on the upcoming straight. Also, feint is no good unless u hav horrendous understeer (almost as bad as in an FF) in which case you usually want to side drift (E-brake). btw even tsuchiya-san says you can use the E-brake if you want and taniguchi habitually uses it so quit complaining.

[jasonaries]

a time and place for each.....

Alrighty, then. My knowledge of physics+my intuition+forum member input = a combination which makes me think there is definitely a time and place for each: drifting and gripping. So, then, it's up to me to go find out where the dividing line is.... this should be interesting....