Controlling a Drift? (E-Brake? or Letting Off the Gas..?)

[shnitzel]

I had a quick question.

So after initiating a drift in a FR car, the rear starts comming out. What is the best way to control the rear when it starts comming out too much (you are at oppisite lock but it still keeps turning)...?

Would it be quick pulls on the E-brake? or letting off the gas..?
Thanks.

[twcfc3s]

let the gas.... if you pull the e brake the car will spin....

[scirocco]

if you completely let off the gas the car will "bite" just like when superbikers let off the throttle while they power over at the corner exit and they get thrown as high has 20 feet in the air. the car will jerk suddenly into the direction that you steering wheel was turning and you will crash. When this used to happen to me in my hachigo i would slam on the brakes and let the car go in reverse (you must have skill to do that though, but you probably wont crash this way)

[shnitzel]

So ease off the gas, but don't let go... or else the car will snap back. I've had that happen a couple of times, I too just slam on the brakes and kind of go into a 180 and just roll out of it.
Any other methods?

[Craftsman]

Originally posted by shnitzel
So ease off the gas, but don't let go... or else the car will snap back. I've had that happen a couple of times, I too just slam on the brakes and kind of go into a 180 and just roll out of it.
Any other methods?

Counter-steer and use your throttle to regulate... That's about all you can do. If you let off the gas, the car will jerk. If you brake, your car will lockup. If you clutch, it'll do the same as letting off the gas...

I was having the opposite problem, I couldn't get enough of my tail out... Stupid Automatic Transmissions...

Matt.

[mranlet]

Not spinning at opposite lock comes with a lot of practice and throttle control.

If you use the handbrake as a rear brake and don't lock it up, you can also just slow down the rear a little bit without stepping on the brakes. This has the same effect as easing off the gas.

[Drift For Food]

All good points.

I'd suggest changing your technique to help prevent the overly high drift angle. Initiate it a little more subtly to create a lower angle. You less throttle and more steering to start the drift. Use less feint or braking, or e-brake or whatever you do to start it. If you're at opposite lock and still spinning around, you threw the rear end out a little too much to start with. The rear end should come out a little easier.

With that said and you still find yourself in the situation of over rotation, i.e. pretty much a spin out, you have few options. Most have already been stated.

Let off the gas. This will allow the rear tires to regain grip again and straighten out the car. Be very cautious when they do regain grip cause that rear end will snap back and snap back fast. This is where good hand speed comes in. Learn the straighten out the wheel as the rear end regains grip. By the time the rear end has traction, the front tires better be pointing straight. If they're still at full counter, you'll essentially drive yourself straight into the ditch or wall. When the rear end regains traction, the car will head where the front end is pointing it.

The e-brake idea is a good one. Using it lightly will basically drag the rear end a little and will help prevent the rear end from overtaking the front. It will slow you down as well. You again have to be cautious. If you lock them up, you could just continue to spin out, if the rear sliding is an easier path of motion than the front rotating.

I too do enjoy a good full 4 wheel lock up. If all else fails, this is the one thing you can count on to help get you out of a jam. Reguardless of throttle, braking, steering angle, this will do the same thing every time. Just lock up all 4 and slide to a stop. I did this a few times when I was learning on rwd and trying to drift in the dark(having not done so in the past). I had a hard time judging where my front wheels were pointing, how far they were turned or even if they were straight or not. With 8 full revolutions from lock to lock in darkness, it's hard to tell where you're really pointing, lol. Still, old faithful helped me out when I got 'er swaying back and forth uncontrollably trying to figure out where the heck my front wheels were pointing. Hit the brake, and slide to a stop, nice and easy, no fuss.


Oh a little off topic but related to what I just said. If you're relatively new to drifting and are in fact trying it in the dark, I'd actually suggest trying it in daytime. The gained visual reference is tremendous and may help you out quite a bit when learning the basics. You have a far greater sense of what's happening around you, where you are oriented, and which direction you are moving. You'll actually be able to see the steering wheel too, which I found suprisingly handy in the above mentioned vehicle, especially when starting out with drifting. Where to go in the day time? Some back country road with no traffic and a few good corners...if you can find a place. Otherwise a parking lot and a few cones. If you're quite law abiding, see if there are any tracks around where you live and see if they have times you can take your car out on it.

[Nemesis]

let go fo the gas steer the other way when u feel the car jerking...it's steering inputs if you know how to contorl the car with yuor steering a "over drift" isn't to hard to fix...

[CRASHDRIVE]

Originally posted by scirocco
if you completely let off the gas the car will "bite" just like when superbikers let off the throttle while they power over at the corner exit and they get thrown as high has 20 feet in the air. the car will jerk suddenly into the direction that you steering wheel was turning and you will crash. When this used to happen to me in my hachigo i would slam on the brakes and let the car go in reverse (you must have skill to do that though, but you probably wont crash this way)

This only apply if you have an OPEN-Diff. If you have an LSD (1/1.5 or 2) just let go of the gas, and it should either snap the rear on the opposite direction or straighten the car out, that depends on your skill level.

If your getting a snap-back after letting go of the gas, this is because of the outside tire retrieve it's traction first before the inner tire. Causing the car to stop off it's track for a second which cause the snap back.

If you have an LSD. Both rear tires looses and retrieve it's traction at the same time, which gives it a smoother transition from loosing traction to gaining traction again.

If you have an open diff. Ask a friend that have RWD car that has an LSD. You'll see the difference.

[scirocco]

Originally posted by CRASHDRIVE
This only apply if you have an OPEN-Diff. If you have an LSD (1/1.5 or 2) just let go of the gas, and it should either snap the rear on the opposite direction or straighten the car out, that depends on your skill level.

If your getting a snap-back after letting go of the gas, this is because of the outside tire retrieve it's traction first before the inner tire. Causing the car to stop off it's track for a second which cause the snap back.

If you have an LSD. Both rear tires looses and retrieve it's traction at the same time, which gives it a smoother transition from loosing traction to gaining traction again.

If you have an open diff. Ask a friend that have RWD car that has an LSD. You'll see the difference.

dude i have way more experience than you think. ask a friend? i AM a drifter and i have drifted two rwds before, one with a 1.5 way, and one with an electronic diff and letting off the gas is just smoother with a lsd so i agree. if you have a 1.5 or 2 way diff than it wont snap as muchbut it will still bite a bit after a second and THEN you are royally screwed if there is a wall on the outside of the turn

[CrazyHawaiian]

Everyone is covering the driving technique aspects, but I thought I would bring up tuning aspects as well. I would say its most common that excessive ammounts of oversteer (resulting in a spin) is a result of driving technique. But if you consistently find yourself in that situation after changing your technique then you might want to consider your car tune as well. Suspension adjustments can really affect the way your car oversteers. From my experience, changing your swaybars makes the most noticable difference. The general idea is that bigger in the front = more understeer and bigger in the rear = more oversteer. In my case, my previous car was underpowered and I wanted more oversteer when feinting, so I put on a bigger rear swaybar. Now with my new car I have a lot more power, but the stock swaybars give me too much understeer. I need to use excessive ammounts of throttle to keep the rear out, and usually thats what messes me up. I need the car to have better natural oversteer tendancies. So I'm gonna take the swaybars from my old car and swap them over since they were matched well for drifting. In your case it sounds like you have too much oversteer, so maybe a smaller rear swaybar would do the trick. Another possibility could be the tires.

But usually, having the problem you describe is related to driver input. Use less throttle or less violent weight transfer and the azz wont swing out as far. IMO changing your technique can overcome most tuning problems/issues. The perm fix should be correct tuning, but a temp fix can be modified style. So even with your car tuned for excessive oversteer, you should be able to overcome any problems by adjusting your style. If you still find yourself with too much oversteer then maybe mess with the swaybars, tune, or tires.

Anyway, thats my .02

[marshun]

i think you guys should just keep trying different things and see what works best for you. some people let off the gas and turn the wheel back. some tap on the gas and turn the wheel. some hit the brakes a little and steer.

[SlideRoadster]

Originally posted by mranlet
Not spinning at opposite lock comes with a lot of practice and throttle control.

If you use the handbrake as a rear brake and don't lock it up, you can also just slow down the rear a little bit without stepping on the brakes. This has the same effect as easing off the gas.

Ill back you up on the E-brake, if you pull it but dont lock the rear up just us it as a rear brake. slowing the as.s end but only works to an extent once its gone its gone. that works if your trying to save a drift... but if your avoiding a wall it depends where the wall is, you just have to use your best intinct to predict where the car will end up...

Thrillz

[mk3mann]

just let yourself FLOW....do not freak out, do not really think, just let your reactions judge your movements...

a normal reaction that is right is to countersteer

a normal reaction that is WRONG is to let off the gas totally.

be easy with the car, and the car will be easy to drift...

you might have to clutch kick it into a drift before you apex the turn....



but what do i know, my supra is still being built up and i havnt drifted in 1 year......i just read alot...

[CRASHDRIVE]

Originally posted by scirocco
dude i have way more experience than you think. ask a friend? i AM a drifter and i have drifted two rwds before, one with a 1.5 way, and one with an electronic diff and letting off the gas is just smoother with a lsd so i agree. if you have a 1.5 or 2 way diff than it wont snap as muchbut it will still bite a bit after a second and THEN you are royally screwed if there is a wall on the outside of the turn

Oh i wasn't questioning your credability as a driver. Im just saying the difference in a "Almost" technical level. That's all.