Double Clutching the Upshift

[mk3mann]

i dont worry about this stuff.....i meerly shift and pass...

[s15-spec-R]

umm ya i dont really see how double clutching is gonna help unless ur racing an 18-wheeler lol (it does happen saw it on tv) lol

[DanB]

Old thread but this was brought to my attention so I thought I might be able to help out.

Double clutching is not need for upshifting. It does slow you down and it does cause additional wear on the clutch, throwout bearing and pressure plate. The amount of wear you save on the synchros, although some people believe it causes wear, is neglible when compared to all the other parts that get extra wear.

The reason for doing it on downshift when racing isn't the wear issue, we replace all the parts before they wear out anyways, it is to have the proper revs so you don't lock up the drive wheels when shifting.

Someone mentioned shifting without using the clutch. For a shorter race this is fine but in endurance racing, excluding electronic gearboxes, the clutch is used. This prevents possible damage if you make a mistake.

With the migration of electronic gearboxes into the cheaper cars this is going to become a lost skill.

[malcolm]

The reason for doing it on downshift when racing isn't the wear issue, we replace all the parts before they wear out anyways, it is to have the proper revs so you don't lock up the drive wheels when shifting.

you're getting "double clutching" confused with "heel-and-toe". They are different techniques.

Also, with some cars, double-clutching on downshifts DOES reduce wear. Double-clutching eliminates the stress on the syncros.

[/dead horse beating]

[DanB]

Originally posted by malcolm
you're getting "double clutching" confused with "heel-and-toe". They are different techniques.

Also, with some cars, double-clutching on downshifts DOES reduce wear. Double-clutching eliminates the stress on the syncros.

[/dead horse beating]

*winny winny*

I think you might have misunderstood me.

Heel and toe is using one foot to control both the brakes and gas. Double clutching, aka rev matching for the younger crowd, uses heel and toe but is not heel and toe. It is matching your engine revs so that when you selct a lower gear you do not lock up the drive wheels.

I do agree that it reduces wear, when done correctly, on the synchros. It does increase wear on the clutch and related items though.

I know you understand this and I was not talking down to you. I explained it in more detail for anyone else that might read this. I think it was a case of us thinking the same thing and sayiong it differently.

BTW is that your car in your sig?

EDIT: Realized your sig was a link and followed it. I was recently crewing for a GT1 Vette locally here in chicago. The team owner wasn't too savy so that was short lived. Oh well it was just for fun so no money lost.

I see you are interested in ALMS. It has been a while but I used to crew for a few IMSA teams and have been to Sebring for the 12 hr. It is a lot more fun doing enduros.

I have also done a few 24 hr SCCA races for a 3 car team racing some smaller classes.

I miss the life but I now have a wife and 2 kids so it is a fair trade.

[malcolm]

nice! sounds cool... got any good contacts in alms right now?? *wink wink*. (I could use a good contact for a test or something.... haha)

well, double clutching is just when you let out the clutch when you are in neutral during an upshift or downshift. It can be used in conjunction with heel-and-toeing, or not.

For downshifting, it is best to use both at the same time, but it is possible to use one and not the other.

so, this is how I view it:

heel-and-toe - when you use your right foot on the brake and gas so you can simultaneously brake and blip the throttle on downshifts.

rev-match - much similar to heel and toe, but can be done while left-foot-braking if the clutch is not needed for downshifts (ie. when a dog-box is used)

double-clutch - engaging the clutch while in neutral when upshifting or downshifting.

I consider them all to be entities upon themselves, although sometimes I do slip up say "double clutch" when I am talking about heel-and-toeing.

[DanB]

I understand what you are saying. You simply break it down into 3 different peices where I view it as 2. Point is we understand what the other is talking about.

I know a few people here and there but mainly SVRA or FIA. I am not sure what you are looking to move into but with your record, which is impressive, have you thought about he Skip Barber driver search or something like it? I know RedBull has a excellent driver program.

http://www.redbulldriversearch.com/

They are going to get a few drivers F1 tests. Not too shabby.

I will keep my ears open and if I hear anything I can always PM you.

[Whisky]

Since the thread headed in this direction, I figured I would comment on the Red Bull deal.

Colin Fleming used to wrench on our karts at Pitts in Van Nuys. Dominique Classens passed me a few times at Moran once, haha. If you have to be passed by a kid, its nice to know the kid is a pro formula racer in europe now.

Now that Red Bull bought Jaguar F1, I think there is a good chance we'll see an american driver in F1 in the near future. Danny Sullivan is doing us proud.

Sorry to have continued the hijack.

Just a comment on hell-and-toe. If you find that you are just rolling your foot sideways, then you are going to have trouble keeping solid consistent brake pedal pressure. Forget touge and drifting, go to a real grip event and drive, you'll see what threshold braking is, and why you want your foot firmly planted on the brake pedal. The thing that completely fixed my heel/toe and improved my pedal control in every regard was to lift my feet off the floor. Seriously. Don't rest your heels on the floor of the car, lift them completely off, you'll heel/toe better, and your pedal work will improve dramatically.

[malcolm]

I am not sure what you are looking to move into but with your record, which is impressive, have you thought about he Skip Barber driver search or something like it? I know RedBull has a excellent driver program.

skip barber costs a lot of money, and from what I've seen, doesn't offer much exposure. my sponsors wouldn't really be all that interested, and if they'll cover the budget for a bigger series, I might just do that.

The RedBull idea is great, but the only set back is that I am Canadian... I doubt they'd be interested.

Any help would be great though... so if you do hear of some sort of link, I'd be happy to hear it. thanks!