(2009 SCHEDULE) D1GP USA Events

[Cavi Mike]

I agree whole-heartedly and it's very ironic you bring up FD at Wall, NJ. Sept 2007 was the first (and last) FD event I attended and I was totally appalled by what I experienced. It's no longer an exhibition to entertain a crowd, it's just another competition for people looking to be #1. I was really taken aback by what I witnessed and if anyone wants to know my exact thoughts you can read them here.

Professional drifting is an exhibition. You are there to show off your skills to entertain a crowd. The only person you are competing against is yourself. If you only strive to be better than the person ahead of you, you already lost.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Ok I joined just to because of this thread, i've been reading through the board for a couple years and have several items from the store and never registered because nothing has struck me as much as this thread has.

To Formula D and J-Rod would you like to explain to us hard working fans who shell out our hard earned money why you've changed the format so drastically over the past 2 years...? Allow me to explain, I have been going to the FD events in NJ since you guys started having them in Wall NJ, in the beginning it was good, hell it was awesome, the practice sessions were kick *Censored**Censored**Censored*, the event itself was even better, it was the proper mix of Pro vs. local Amateurs. The sponsors were there but not overly so. the 06 season was the same but not as many Amateurs and more sponsors.

the 07 season was worse more commercialized, longer breaks, less interaction with the teams and WAAAAY more Falken Tire than anyone else, which mind you is fine since they are a mega team and they have a solid stable of drivers. But the number of domestic muscle was seriously outnumbering the Japanese sport compact that started the whole thing.

Then came the 08 season, I can honestly say I had more enjoyment watching the drag races than the FD event. There was an overkill on the commercialization (Seriously you guys had a car sponsored by Home Depot, what the F is this NASCRAP). The practice was a joke, the parking was beyond FUBAR, you had less sponsors and less teams, which led to less team interaction, you have no locals or amatuers bothering to come anymore for no other reason than you telling them pretty much to go home or sit in the stands.... Speaking of which, we could see *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* from where we were sitting, the track is nothing more than one giant circle, what's the fun in that. Oh and the cars you guys have anymore suck, I go to these events to see S13's, S14's, Rx 7's, Ae86's the occassional Skyline, Sorer, S15, or Altezza, not GXP after GXP, after GXP after Solstice or mustangs, or corvettes or you get my point. Gush's Mustang was the bomb, Sams Viper was awesome, hell the charger kicks *Censored**Censored**Censored*, so did Rhys' GTO but they were 3 american muscle in a field of 20-30 japanese iron. now it's the other way around.

You are turning into NASCRAP, and you are losing your die hard fans for those brainless monkeys and ricers that tune into NASCAR and go to HIN. D1 had the right idea at the start, but after seeing how you trounced on there parade and turned the sport of drifting into yet another bastardized commercialized version with more NASCAR than Grassroots they gave up the ghost and left and now this new iteration of D1 seems to have followed your footsteps and turned it into a tiny bit of drifting with a whole bunch of fanfare and car show.

So you guys explain to us hardcore, die hard fans who have been with you from day 1 why we should bother spending(coughwastingcough) our hard earned money to support you and come to your events anymore, because unless it's in Irwindale you don't seem to give 2 shits about the rest of us.

I should add that me and the gf left the event severely pissed off and disappointed before the top 8 was even half way done, and we were in a long line of cars that were leaving that gate when we left.

I know you're going to say that E-town was a new venue and you have things to iron out about it blah blah blah, that's BS. Fix the parking, get rid of the long *Censored**Censored**Censored* 3 hour break, fix the eating, pick a different more technical section of the track or better yet go to Thunderbolt Raceway and use thier track, get rid of the commercialization, I know I'd gladly pay a few bucks more for a better event that was more like the 05 season and less like Nascar. Get the GM and Ford and DC out of the sponsor pool, bring back the grass roots aspects and for the love of god get the Sylvia's, Hatchis, RX's and there kin back in the stable and remove all the goddamn GXP's and american car out of there. Your fans will thank you and you might actually see an increase in profits.

/Rant

If anyone else on this board agrees with what I've said please get it out there. Oh and I'd love to see the NOPI Drift guys be allowed to drive in FD now that NOPI Drift is no more. That's where the guys who started FD went to after the 06 season because they couldn't compete with sponsors like SEARS, Home Depot, GM, and Dodge.

[Formula D]

It looks like I got some blood boiling in the FD camp with that response. I am flattered and I will try to keep my response to their response a bit shorter, but then again I might get a little wordy. Here it goes.

No blood boiling here, just some funny things coming from your very first post. Clearly you are a bit out of touch and a bit late to the table. First, we should introduce our guest, who with his first official post stirred up all this fun chatter. Guys, this is D1, or rather whoever is representing them. I’m surprised nobody else called this out. Either way, welcome aboard. Your disguise was good, but with only one post, it is quite obvious.

FD's initial response to D1's press release was immature & unprofessional. A professional organization such as FD should not conduct themselves that way and the fact that FD did is a telling sign. Those comments made FD come off as an organization very afraid of their new competition, very afraid of D1's plans and an organization that realizes that D1 has come up with the right formula. In fact, all of the information posted negatively about D1 by FD regarding the drivers, the Red Bull World Championships controversy surrounding D1, etc. all fall in line with that same immaturity and unprofessionalism.

As I said, yes, a bit petty. However, as the "leaders in drift" (that means you) and because others commented as well, should not the leader use the appropriate verbiage to describe the sport they birthed? Or is this the next group putting their best attempt at a press release to announce yet another comeback? If the later is true, it’s fine. Everyone has butchered a release or two in their life. Let’s just be real here. We are not afraid of the competition. We have endured more people trying to "better the sport" than you can imagine. What concerns me is wreckless decisions based on selfish intentions that dont help, but hurt.

My argument to FD's initial response to the D1 press release was based on the fact that FD indicated that FD were the first to come up with the format D1 announced. All you have to do is read FD's words and then look at the banner FD posted under them. It is suggestive to say the least.

Huh, what? Can anyone understand this?

FD's latest novel of a response in defense of the fact that I said they copied D1's Tokyo Drift format for the Red Bull event mentions that FD made the announcement regarding the Red Bull event in 2007. I am not sure of that but I will take FD's word as it does not matter anyway. The fact is that Tokyo Drift was held in June of 08' and looking at things on the net it seems the first public comments since FD's 2007 announcement regarding the Red Bull event was in late July of 08' and even then there was no track design, location or details provided. The first mention of any of the details came much later. Was it coincidence? I don't know. What I do know are the facts and the facts are stated above.

What facts? Did you need that SEMA announcement or? Yes, you caught us, we watched the Tokyo Drift format or whatever and consciously said, “Hey lets copy that. Hey Red Bull, you are known for being innovative, but here is a course layout that we can copy since we don’t have enough skill to do it on our own.” Funny.. don't you see how ridiculous that sounds?

I also now know from the FD novel that Slipstream (company that started FD) was once working for D1. The FD novel also provides information that D1 cut Slipstream loose after the 1st event D1 held in the States and after that Slipstream started FD. Did FD not copy D1? I mean FD's knowledge for drifting must have come from somewhere right? Anyway, this is neither here nor there as this happens when something becomes successful, but I will speculate that most of the negativity surrounding FD's perception of D1 or at least their public bashing of D1 surrounds that very moment when D1 told them to take a hike, not to mention the fact that FD is trying to protect FD's financial interests and the best way to do that is to discredit D1.

Yes, thank you for making my own point. FD was born because D1 did NOT want to build US drivers with a US based series. So what are we copying? The format? Oh, so then I guess D1 copied NCAA, NHRA or any other bracketed system. I guess we copied D1 with Team Drift too. Hilarious man. More over, if we are on copying… So did HIN not copy Showoff? You yourself have used the exact same argument we are using now. It’s a weak argument. We were there, we grabbed the opportunity D1 did not see and we moved forward. The fact that D1 can only now pitch this massive idea is only because the foundation has been laid over 5 years of consistent drifting content stateside. We are thankful D1 told us to take a hike. People say perception is reality. In this case, reality is reality unless you forgot the 3 other groups D1 dropped in subsequent years.

Further in the Fd novel FD's comments about how D1 will have to use FD "assets" when referring to drivers. This is an unbelievable comment considering in FD's own words, they do not own the drivers. More unbelievable are the comments that FD could place restrictions on the drivers if they wanted to. Very unlikely as drivers want to keep their options open.

What options? An unproven series/idea with less events and no TV? It's funny how D1 is so protective of their drivers but even at the mention of it from us, it is a surprise. So much hypocrisy. The funny thing is the right answer right in front of you. Bring all the D1 drivers here, 2X per year and do a reasonable promotion and production that the size of the marketplace can endure. Open and close the year with a D1 event. Why is that not enough? Care to elaborate? Why do something now that to most people is counter-productive to growth in the US drifting community? Why do something that is clearly in conflict with our series? Can you tell me whom this benefits? You have the easy answer to do something beneficial and workable yet D1 defies logic only to do something so potentially damaging to the industry.

Let's play this one out though because there is talk of splintering the drifting community in the FD novel. If it is true that D1 is bringing over 6 to 8 or even 10 drivers and those drivers only race D1 and they are the top 10 drivers in the D1 series and if the top 6 to 8 or even 10 drivers from last seasons FD events choose to stay with FD, then is that kind of a draw? I don't think so and here is why.

Again, huh? I’d love to debate this, but it’s hard to understand what your argument is.

D1 offers something new, fresh in terms of concept, locations, entertainment value and the D1 drivers (arguably much better) everyone wants to see, but most have not other than in videos or on youtube. Combine all of these things together and you are looking a huge events.

Who is everyone? What information do you have that lets you know what areas are asking for this type of event? Yes, there are drifting fans in all 51 states. I know this from our own data. So what gives you better info than the group that has been ground level for the past 5 years? Chicago, we already know what that market can bare. So what intelligence or insight tells you that you can do it better then the years we gave this area? Granted, there is a market there, but not in the parking lot/build a venue setting? Is the assumption that we are sub par and you can do it better?

I also believe that D1 has the advantage with their locations because they will see new up and coming drivers nobody has ever seen before developing the stars of tomorrow, but I also believe that the number of events they are doing will pull in the remaining American pro drivers. D1 is only doing 4 events across the country (according to their announcement and website). FD is doing almost double (mainly west coast) plus Red Bull and others. FD said it in their novel, these are hard times where sponsors are cutting back and because of this, the drivers must be holding on too or getting less dollars. For the drivers who do not have the budget to compete in the FD series & for the sponsors who are cutting back, D1 seems to be the low cost alternative simply because they are less with more to offer and in these times that matters. I guess we will have to wait and see what D1's fee's will be before truly calling them the low cost alternative, but if those fee's are less than FD's, then FD has a major problem on their hands. All the way around, advantage D1.

And you would know this because…….? (Reference above) Also, please tell me how you propose building a site such as the one on the D1 website with lower fees than us? Makes zero sense.

I said I wasn't going to make this a novel, but I warned it would get wordy. I will keep it short from here addressing my remaining 3 issues. First I will talk about the Red Bull event. I love the direction. I understand where this is going. It is great for drifting. I want to see this develop, but here is my problem with what you are saying and I am again going to defend D1, use your own comments and use the knowledge I have about the event having been to it. BTW, ticket prices guys?

Ya, what about them? These were on par, and actually cheaper than most 2 day D1 events. $35 for a two day reserved ticket and no processing fees. Oh, and plenty of $5 off codes meaning that many patrons got two day reserved for $30. Custom venue with grandstands and buses. A bit different and more costly than a fixed built facility. Again, a fact that you have not researched or are unaware of.

If I were D1 and I saw that no details about this event were made until the end of July for an event in mid November, I could be pretty angry that this event was planned one week prior to the D1 event held yearly in Irwindale. To me it would seem inconsiderate and shady possibly done on purpose. I have heard all the stories that D1 cancelled their 2008 schedule, but they did also announce they would do that one event and it was an event I and many people were looking forward to. The event was on the Irwindale Speedway website until the beginning of November and made known throughout the community.

If FD's excuse is that they didn't know or it wasn't announced on the D1 site or D1 has a history of anouncing and cancelling as so stated in the FD novel, I call bull$#!%. Are you going to tell me that a competitive event such as the D1 Grand Prix's annual event in Irwindale was not on FD's radar? Are you going to tell me that FD could not pick up the phone and call their boys at Irwindale to find out if the event was scheduled or not or to call D1 themselves? C'mom FD knew.

Ya, I love this one. Especially since it was Irwindale telling us that the event was cancelled. Oh and if it was on, why wasn’t D1 contacting any drivers here? This argument is one of those ones where because you are coming to the game late you do more damage than good to your cause because everyone knows this is crap. D1 wasn’t contacting drivers, sponsors or even the venue they supposedly had an event at. Again, you are late to the table, have zero understnading of back story and are relying on 3rd, 4th or maybe 5th part biased information at best Ya…. ok

As far as the Red Bull event, FD fields 16 of the drivers that competed in their own series in a field of 32 and as FD mentioned, they used all FD's judges. On different websites I have seen that FD only invited 4 D1 drivers to participate in the event. Now I am not a rocket scientist, but I can conclude that this was not even close to being fair and definately not what you could consider an unbiased World Championship.

So D1’s was unbiased when they did their ”WC”? Why are you using an argument that clowns D1’s own attempt at a WC? The host country always has more athletes. Have you bothered to look at how something like the Olympics works? Please look at the 2008 Beijing roster and then make that argument. Consequently, there was the champion and runner up or past champion from every single recognizable or remotely respectable series internationally at this event. What more do you need? What other better drivers were not there? Here, let me help you try and make your point…. What way would have made it fair? 6 D1 drivers? Ya, that was there for you bud. If you'd like I can give you the document that D1 created for us showing the 6 drivers they wanted to bring and that we agreed to. Would this be helpful for you? Actually, you already have it because you were there. Unreal.

Oh, but the judging? Ah yes, the biggest event to hit drifting internationally, every champion here but D1 wont play because of judging and because of the date D1 said they planned at Irwindale? Weak argument man. Why with everyone telling D1 to be there would they bow out? Why not come and destroy the competition field. Because FD woudl conspire and make Rhys Millen win? That's so funny man. This is not the WWE. Consequently more people have said that about D1 than FD. Judging for the WC was as transparent as you can get. If you don't agree speak to any of the drivers who were there.

I hear the argument made by FD that drivers from further away made it on the small money that was provided and how D1 who are so close could not. I am guessing that D1 may have took a look at the judging, the fact that FD was fielding 16 of their top drivers in a field of 32, saw that Red Bull sponsorship of Rhys Millen and said, what's the point? I mean this was a coup d' etat with Rhys Millen waiting in the wings. I am also guessing they harbored some ill feelings about the scheduling. I am amazed that that D1 even came to the table after FD pulled all of these moves on them. I would not have. Maybe this is the reason for their graceful decision to back out of the event telling FD it was for financial reasons?

(See above response) And so they lied? You are admitting to that and the fact that you were stringing us along the entire time? Wow!

So here comes the argument again documented in the novel by FD. FD says they participated in the D1 event and FD had no say, didn't expect to have a say, etc. Well, of course the American drivers participated and FD kept their mouth shut. The American drivers participated in D1's event. FD had nothing to do with anything.

Dang man, you keep making my own points for me. Funny how when the tables are turned, the expectations change. Hard to see how you don’t see the hypocrisy.

The difference is that FD positioned the Red Bull event as a World Championship to crown a World Champion and on the mass media stage that Red Bull provided. In that case there better be a fair judging system representative of input from all the organizations, an equal representation of drivers and every aspect of that event agreed to by all the organizations all the way down the line and you better have the best in the world there and that means D1 rather to have 16 FD drivers crush drivers from other parts of the world that were clearly not in their league.

Ya, that’s what the international consensus agreed to. See, we actually talk to our partners and find consensus and compromise. Find me an argument otherwise even after the event when everyone should be complaining about judging. There were very few complaints. Again, D1 being the lone cry in all this. And again, D1 had an over abundance of D1 drivers at their own WC. This is not a good debate for you.

Id did hear FD say that they wanted to organize an event to go head to head with D1 drivers and that FD would fund or co-fund with D1. Am I hearing a challenge? I personally would love to see that happen. BTW, I am going to start taking bets guys and I got D1 on this one.

Ya that’s fine man. Again, we don’t care who wins. Our idea is to grow drifting with good ideas, not destroy it with selfish intentions of a few. It's not about who is better or who has "cooler" cars.

I honestly do like FD and have been to a lot of their events. I also love D1 and I am dying to see these guys here in the U.S. I understand that this is competitive, but having more drifting events spread around the country makes drifting bigger and better and that benefits FD and D1 not to mention the industry, an industry I work in and have seen hurting. I hate hearing the trash talk and seeing the posts and so I am calling it like I see it. I am sorry if I offended. In the FD novel FD said that they knew the new promoters of D1 very well and that they are respectable, so maybe FD & D1 can put the bad blood in the past and work together. Maybe together they can co-promote the D1 vs FD event, form one bigger event series or create a bigger Red Bull event or just to help bring drifting to more places around the country where there are no drifting events.

To even begin to go down that road, we need to see eye to eye on what drifting is in the states. We are clearly in conflict with that. I am not sure you are in a position to say what is beneficial to an industry in terms of events and how many events. More events spread around the country is not beneficial to FD or the industry as you say. Having confusion and spreading drivers and dollars thinner does nothing good. Hello, drag racing. By the way, nice job on scheduling you first event one week before our ATL event. Right off the bat, it's starting off on the wrong foot. No pro team is going to risk wrecking their car when they need to leave Monday to make it to ATL.

We know and admit that our own series can do more and be better and it is very easy for people to be critical. Some people may not like certain cars or driving techniques or whatever. That's ok. The reality is that FD has made many good choices in terms of the direction of the sport and to grow the sport. FD has done many more "first's" for the sport of drifting than any other promotional group, including D1.... whether it be TV, event programming, judging transparency, sponsorship returns, a true World Championship, creative partnerships and many other things seen and not seen. Agree with them or not they are reality and they have led for many positive things for many individuals and companies involved with the brand. And this is why we have been supported. This mindset has been directionally different than everyone else. When FD could have been selfish, we have not. We have reinvested in the series every single year because we want this to be around for the long term. When most people saw a quick buck we did not. So to even think collaboration we would have to have some of the same intentions and we are simply not on the same page in that regards.

[OldSkool510]

The FD vs D1 saga continues and it will never end. I agree that D1 drivers as a whole are more skilled than the FD drivers. Only FD's top 5-8 drivers could actually compete with the D1 guys. There is just too huge of a skills/driving gap between FD's top 8 and the rest of their drivers.

As I stated in a previous post somewhere, D1 drivers are always balls out on every run in order to put on a great driving exhibition for the fans, while the FD guys are constantly scoreboard watching. FD seems to only really push their skills to the limit according their competition.

As for entertainment and bang for buck value, FD wins hands down. I'm not a drifter, but I am a major car enthusiast as well as a big drifting fan. I've been attending all drifting events in the SoCal for several years now. FD has always held a better event with regards to entertainment, vendors, etc..

In my opinion as a devoted drifting fan, D1 should just try and co-exist with FD instead of trying to constantly out-do them. There's room in the drifting world for both entities to succeed. Unite the fans of drifting, rather than making them choose between FD or D1.

[Lord_EJR]

Does anyone remember a video of forsberg going to japan, and talking about how he was up to par if not better then most of the drivers he drove with there. And that was like 3 years ago....

I think the sport is 100% more accelerated in the US

LOL, he said that? hahahha. Man the guys in japan must use that video when they want some comedy. The only drivers in the US that I feel come close to japan skills are JR (best US drifter in my opinion), Rhys, Tanner, and Sam. I cant believe Forsberg said that lol. Yea mustve been an amateur event for girls or children.

I hope some of the FD guys come out to the D1 events and show what they got to offer. I love D1GP but I'm pro USA when it comes to Japan vs US. I also really hope that FD and D1 can patch up their differences so we can see who the real top dogs in this game are. I think I already know the outcome to that tho.

I dont agree with the US 100% more accelerated stuff. What facts due you base this on? US (FD) has ugly cars, lots of boring drivers, and its always based on competition. Its not that fun. On top of that, at the drift events themselves they always have ugly models, weak rappers, crappy judging, bad MC's (Like when he called Takatori's R34 and 240sx, lol! that was the worst!) and bad organization. Like I said, I'm not an FD hater, I just want to see them get better!

[Cavi Mike]

Better than who, the local amateur drifters? Maybe, but he's not better than the D1 drivers, he's just a cocky little snob b!tch.

[Bebop]

I don't think so. Just think about it this way. A Medical Doctor with years and years and years of the correct experience will always have an edge over anyone fresh out of med school. No matter what, correct experience > books + videos.

Medicine is thousands of years old and drifting might be 25, depending on who you ask.

Does anyone remember a video of forsberg going to japan, and talking about how he was up to par if not better then most of the drivers he drove with there. And that was like 3 years ago....

I think the sport is 100% more accelerated in the US

[courantcom]

Ugh, that front end is ugly. What's up with the headlight area?

Ahh...braille battery car. Maybe it looks good in "braille". ;-) ...or maybe it already is in braille?

[Justin Banner]

Ugh, that front end is ugly. What's up with the headlight area?

[Lord_EJR]

I'd have to disagree with you about the diversity of the cars in FD. The cars in FD are WAY more diverse than anything in D1. With D1 its mainly S15's and AE86's. FD has Vipers, Solstic, GTO, mustang, V8 powered 350Z's, etc. As far as what looks better, i guess thats just personal preferance, but FD cars look better IMO.

Are you kidding? Have you ever watched/followed D1? You're saying that FD is more diverse because they have crappy american cars? To me aside from the mustang, all those american cars suck. Viper? Jeez I hate that car with a passion. I dont know why but it just doesnt fit with drifting, its like a redneck exotic car. The decals and design of that car is just ugly to me. I'd much rather see a nice vette drifting (Dont talk to me about that Tanaka racing monstrosity).

You talk Diversity? D1 has had tons of different cars with different set ups. There was even a 1000hp+ Aristo in previous years for crying out loud. Lol I was watching FD atlanta today, I forget who the driver but guy was driving basically a stock pontiac solstice, WTF?

V8 350Z? I admit I liked that car, but D1 had a unique drifting Z too, RB powered Top Secret built Z, car was fast as hell too! Even Kuma's Subie or Evo are more diverse just because of the damn engineering that went into them.

'09 D1 is going to be even more diverse. Daigo in a mustang? Ueno in a BMW? When it comes to cars (and driving) D1 will always >>>>>>> FD. FD will have the same ugly *Censored**Censored**Censored* cars, aside from the hand full that are cool.

In other words:



I'm not an FD hater. I think they are cool, I appreciate their hard work promoting drifting in the US. I just dont like certain things about that series. Cars should be cool, not look like a damn Frankenstein or a fatty on a blind date

[courantcom]

It might be easier to pick up but with the police so strict here in the states, it's very difficult to get the practice in that the japanese have been getting on the streets. Getting caught drifting here can land you in jail for the night and losing your car.

The Police in Japan is JUST AS STRICT. You make it sound like that if the Japanese police see you "street drifting", they are going to leave you alone? No...they have "stings" there too. They setup "traps". They roll up with their lights off too, and then pop out of nowhere. They will chase you down too...all the same. Getting caught drifting in Japan can also lead to stiff fines which will lead to you losing your car.

And then there's the track support, there's really nowhere to just go drift because tracks can't afford the insurance because americans are so sue-happy. You can find somewhere to drift every weekend in japan but there's nothing like that here. No gymkhana events around here either.

You can find something at least 2x a month here in So.Cali alone at a proper track/venue. Maybe more if you start driving to Vegas because I know VegasDrift holds events as well. In fact, here at Willow Springs Raceway, you can become a "member", and then "practice" all you want for an extremely discounted fee.

But the biggest problem, americans just drag race and that's all FD is. If your car is underpowered, the judges couldn't care less that you nailed all your clipping points perfect and were at full lock in every drift. I love watching them pick the fastest car every time even when the fast guy loses drift and misses his clipping points when he's chasing. It's eff'n pathetic. But he wins every single damn time.

"Americans" also love NASCAR, and Off-Road racing, and Power Boat Racing, etc. Americans also love Nitro burning monster trucks, and pretty much anything Nitro burning for that matter. Americans do love "power", as the typical American car builder solution to making a good car is just to solve it with a good dose of power. Americans love a V8. They love it more than a V10, or a V12, or anything flat. Smooth power is useless against brute power. But then again, who's the argue? E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E who's a car fanatic loves power. ...even those who aren't such fanatics still love power, and you can't argue that. Power just costs money and that's where people start to find a "balance". But...none of this matters for the point of this discussion.

For what you had mentioned, you seem to have forgotten something. Power is one thing, and putting it all down as traction is another. A car may have gobs and gobs of power, but if the suspension design is crap, a lot of that power goes to waste.

The drift cars need to have correct power for the weight of it. I'd like to see ideas of a rule that correlates horsepower against the car's weight.

FD is a joke.

Seems like you just mean to say that their judging is a joke. Please remember that FD does more than just judge events. Judging is a detail in the grand scheme of things, but it DOES have to be done correctly as well. It's like painting a car. The actual painting part (pulling the trigger of the paint gun) is the easiest part. All the prep work and finishing work has to go into play as well.

[Cavi Mike]

It might be easier to pick up but with the police so strict here in the states, it's very difficult to get the practice in that the japanese have been getting on the streets. Getting caught drifting here can land you in jail for the night and losing your car.

And then there's the track support, there's really nowhere to just go drift because tracks can't afford the insurance because americans are so sue-happy. You can find somewhere to drift every weekend in japan but there's nothing like that here. No gymkhana events around here either.

But the biggest problem, americans just drag race and that's all FD is. If your car is underpowered, the judges couldn't care less that you nailed all your clipping points perfect and were at full lock in every drift. I love watching them pick the fastest car every time even when the fast guy loses drift and misses his clipping points when he's chasing. It's eff'n pathetic. But he wins every single damn time.

FD is a joke.

[courantcom]

I believe in the state of the sport is right now its so easy to pick up drifting.

When dudes started out 20 years ago in japan they didn't have manuals, books, movies to teach them the ropes. Or just show them the right perspective of the sport.

In other words, American drivers have it easy compared to old school dudes in japan. They might not have the experience, but the formula is at there fingertips.

I don't think so. Just think about it this way. A Medical Doctor with years and years and years of the correct experience will always have an edge over anyone fresh out of med school. No matter what, correct experience > books + videos.

[Bebop]

I believe in the state of the sport is right now its so easy to pick up drifting.

When dudes started out 20 years ago in japan they didn't have manuals, books, movies to teach them the ropes. Or just show them the right perspective of the sport.

In other words, American drivers have it easy compared to old school dudes in japan. They might not have the experience, but the formula is at there fingertips.

[courantcom]

I'd take that bet. FD drivers have more than proven that they can hand with D1 drivers. Personally, (hold on, let me put on my flame suit) for the most part, i don't see a seperation any more.

I'll never believe that. Some of the D1 drivers have been drifting for as many years as some of the FD drivers have been alive. Experience is experience...and quite a bit of the D1 drivers have had all the correct experience stacked end on end....or should I say more side to side.