WORLD DRIFT CHAMPIONSHIPS (WDC) vs. FORMULA DRIFT (FD)

[driftersil80]

Well, Ken Gushi is a D1 and FD driver.....so I think they mean non-American drivers. Oh, and I have a question of my own. What ever happened to Dai Yoshihara? Has anyone heard anything from him or anything about his opinion? I dont hear ANYTHING about him anymore........

[pita bread]

let's stay on the topic which is quoted in this post

Originally posted by AlexPfeiffer
In the history of racing, when ever a form of racing became split and had 2 instead of 1 headlineing series, it was bad for all, including the fans.

[OverCorrect]

doesnt cart have one?

No...and for the record (whatever that's worth...in fact, do we even have a record?), nowadays CART's known as Champ Car.

For the same record (do we have one yet?), my 2 cents say that driver's unions are bad, but not as bad as the unnecessary fractionalization of ANY sect of racing, particularly one with the growth, trajectory, potential, opportunity and appeal that has been captured by our beloved act of Drifting...I love the Formula D boys and I like the guys steering the WDC ship, and through personal relationships know for a fact that everybody involved in both entities has nothing but love for Drifting; sad that the love is being shown by way of competing Series. We best all do ourselves and our sport a favor and NEVER forget, ignore or diminish those who were there/here first and have done the most to grow Drifting.

Thank you Jim, Ryan and all the good men at Formula D!

[SHIFT_KING]

Doesn't that mean if an american qualifies and places in D1 they cant compete in FD?

Why is this?

[SHIFT_KING]

Thats a pretty one sided view posted by FD:

The situation with HIN and Primedia is not 'cut n dry' like that. The HIN series was sold to a competing magazine publication.They then moved their own magazines in to cover the events. HIN wouldnt have grown to where it is without Primedia pumping their events. Primedia did exactly what I wouldve done: Start my own series and do it BIGGER AND BETTER.

The average fan that attends Drifting events wants to see drifting in their areas. Thats pretty selfish to ask someone to 'give up' an event that may be coming to their area by taking sides with WDC or FD.
I can understand the 'circle the wagons' mentality, but you guys have to realize that just because you start #1, doesnt mean that you can stay there without competition.
This has nothing to do with the average fan that just wants to watch Drifting. Whats at issue here is Money.

Speculating about their share holders and about how deep their pockets are is petty,childish,misleading and just not very responsible in general. I find the comment about them not being able to advertise their events as pure comedy.

Since when does having more events hurt the fans? it doesnt, so stop frontin. HIN folks are shady, got scared and pulled a cybersquatting move on PRimedias event series URL. FD seems to be headed in that direction sorta. just prove that you're the top series without this backhanded, one sided internet rumor *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*.

This is ALL about Sponsorship money and ego

You do your best and let WDC do their best and let the fans decide. The only thing hurting fans is when you let this behind the scenes *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* spill out into the public. Drifting is big business now, time to step up.

[ALI]

This whole issue never even bothered me until I was turned down a sponsorship because a certain company commited to sponsoring the WDC series itself. Can't say who, etc....but that's when it stung a little.

I still can't understand how anybody could turn down national TV coverage for print advertisement. The viewership is just fractional.... If the drivers such as myself are already being affected by this series, I can't even imagine the war going on right now in capturing series (FD - WDC) sponsors.

It's great that the FD crew has established great relationships with existing sponsor companies. It's going to be interesting.

Drivers (Alex, JR, etc..):
Just out of curiosity, did any of you guys give the WDC crew a call and ask them why they are advertising your names on the event list? I'd be real curious to see how they respond to that.

[j.r.]

I have not contacted them yet in regards to that. I know a few guys signed a letter of intent at the WDC meeting as alex mentioned earlier so Im assuming WDC took that as a right to advertise those drivers. As far as myself I talked to A couple of the WDC guys earlier when they approached me about the series and initially told them that it could be cool for extra practice when we had down time or were off from other things...I find that far from a commitment...I also voiced my worry about another series trying to be top tier in the US to them. I find it hard to believe they would use names with out actual commitment???

[AlexPfeiffer]

I signed the intent form, so I cant really do anything. The only thing i can do is just not show up and make sure people know im not commiting to that series (which is why i started this post) But the other drivers that didnt sign the form shouldnt be on that list.



This will hurt our fans because they will be disapointed when they go to the events and the fliers say that all the top teams and drivers will be there but only a few will be. I mean i would be really pissed if D1 came and said they are running an event, payed $35 to watch, $10 for parking, $20 for food and drinks, but then Nomuken, Kazama, Imamura, Ueo, Uchi, Tanaka, Kumakubo, Ueno, and the other drivers I recongnize didnt show up?

I dont think the fans go to the events just to watch drifting, you can buy a vid cheeper then going, then again you may beable to watch it on TV soon for nothing. They go because they want to see the cars up close, see the people involved, hear the motors scream, taste the rubber in the air. Being there is totaly different then just watching it. Its definetly an experience the fans love and it does cost money to go to the events, and alot of the fans drive pretty far (or even fly), and they are expecting to see their favorite drivers, dont you think they will be disapointed when non of them are at WDC and the fliers said they would be?

[ALI]

This will hurt our fans because they will be disapointed when they go to the events and the fliers say that all the top teams and drivers will be there but only a few will be. I mean i would be really pissed if D1 came and said they are running an event, payed $35 to watch, $10 for parking, $20 for food and drinks, but then Nomuken, Kazama, Imamura, Ueo, Uchi, Tanaka, Kumakubo, Ueno, and the other drivers I recongnize didnt show up?

Exactly, that's why I asked. Not only is that going to make them look bad, but it's going to make our sport look bad too. If you have @ss clowns running drift events, or a series that matter it's going to leave a bad impression overall, on everybody.

Most new fans to the sport aren't going to put that much thought into "well this series was run by WDC, and I'm sure FD would be much better....". If they leave an event unhappy it's more like: "blah, drifting sucks".

[craiglieberman]

I may have something to add

All;
While I am NOT a drifter, I do have some relative information to share from similar experiences in the tuner world.

Some of you know that I use to run/direct the NIRA drag racing series, a series wholly owned by Petersen (then Primedia bought us, and sold NIRA out from under my crew to the NHRA in a deal in which Primedia would recieve a cut of NHRA sponsorship dollars for a period of time...so long as Primedia covered NHRA events).

How is this relevant? In several ways, if you examine the history closely.

Way back when (2000), there were 3 import drag racing sanctioning bodies: NHRA, Battle and IDRC, each with their strengths and weaknesses.

When I co-started NDRA after NIRA was sold out from under us, I insisted on big payouts and TV coverage for the drivers (just as I did with NIRA). This was used to entice drivers to the series and it worked. Drivers benefitted. They benefitted AGAIN when IDRC AND NHRA were both now compelled to increase payouts and offer a championship points fund to match NIRA then NDRA. Some series resorted to paying drivers just to show up! Other series waived fees for drivers (NHRA still does this for most of their top pros). Other series looked the other at rules infractions for favored drivers.

Competition, in this case, was good in that it benefitted drivers...but made NIRA and later NDRA's life difficult because we did not budge on rules, didn;t pay drivers just to show up, etc. not for anyone.

It was bad for fans though, because in many cases, sanctioning bodies would host simultaneous events in different parts of the country. Drivers and sponsors wishing to support different series' were forced to make a choice. Bad idea. Since NHRA controls most of the tracks, they were the primary culprit.

IDRC and NDRA shared similar rule structures, and in most cases, a switch over from one event to another was easily do able. However, as car technology progressed, there were some defining/limiting characteristics. Again, some drivers were forced to make a choice.

Most of all, the sanctioning body that controls the print media offered the most to the drivers and their sponsors. If you've been to NHRA sport compact event, you'll know that they're ghost towns. Why do drivers go? Exposure. TV exposure and print exposure. Why do people go to the NOPI/NDRA drag events? Payouts.

Where is sport compact car racing today, some 13 years after Frank Choi/Battle started it? There are STILL 4 import series. NHRA and NDRA are the strongest. Payouts are still high, but attendance is shrinking. Media coverage is weak. Sponsors are losing value. Drivers are paying more costs. And as the sport compact car market shrinks, sponsorship is drying up. NHRA salaries are up (in some cases 100%) while payouts are the same as when I left in 2002. Primedia still covers NHRA events, only Modified covers NDRA events (for the most events). Drivers are still divided among series in some cases and the only people making it in sport compact car racing are old white guys who had varying levels of success in regular NHRA (domestic) racing who've now switched to "imports" (yet they drive Cavaliers and Sunfires).

Its no longer import racing...its' sport compact racing. The cars are little more than rebadged NHRA Pro STock cars and I have to wonder how many care about seeing a domestic sport compact line up against Japan's best. Soon, NHRA will dissolve their sport compact car series and blend the top pro classes into their regular NHRA event...they will have accomplished (in their minds) what Pro Stock Truck failed to do (bring in a younger audience). Big companies like GM learned from their reluctance in import drag racing: they're here at the start, now.

So here we are in nearly an identical situation with drifting:
Primedia will most assuredly provide exposure, which in turn will allow you drivers to get sponsors. That could be good. Sponsorship interest is high because of the buzz...built mainly by Formula D. Now, if I were them, I'd be PO'd at Primedia...but there may be more to the story: did Primedia approach FD and try to work out a deal? Or did they just jump in.

But if sanctioning bodies or sponsors prevent you from going to other events (are they trying to do this?), then fans will suffer. Without fans, any series will fail eventually. Go to a Battle event if you don't believe me. No pros, no fans. There have even been cases were certain major sponsors told drivers where they could/couldn't go.

Since I know little about the other drift series, except to say that I've heard rumors about biased judging, it would seem that there is a unique opportunity for you leaders (Chris, Alex, Ryan) to sit down with WDC and FD and spell out your terms: big payouts, judged by qualified, non biased pros, guaranteed driver features in magazines or on TV, etc. and help shape your own future.

In my humble opinion, anyone asking you to sign an exclusive without specific paid guarantees to you, the driver, seems extreme.

But there's another caveat: in many cases, the tracks THEMSELVES have gotten greedy, making it hard for sanctioning bodies to make a profit and have even gone so far as to host their OWN series (Englishtown, NJ, Moroso) and if you think sanctioning bodies have been slick, wait till you see what happens with driver payoffs, back door deals with locals, etc. etc. I could write a BOOK!

I guess my point is that you should ask some top import drag racers what the divisive nature of this competition has meant to them. If we learn from some of these mis steps, perhaps our friends at the two sanctioning bodies will realize that there must be a way to build competing series wherein drivers and fans benefit and profits can still be found. This could be the beginning of something beautiful....or the beginning of the end.

If I can share my experiences with anyone in the interests of helping the sport, please feel free to contact me at liebermc1@cox.net

Thank you for allowing me to share my views.

[Al]

In most cases on the internet, I just glaze on what people are saying. I can't believed that I actually read all that.

Good read and Info's.

-Al

[Modified-Rob]

Modified Mag / Formula D / WDC

Modified Mag is currently the leading publication for drifting. We have supported all event series to date including Drift Showoff, D1, and most of all Formula D.
I am the owner/Publisher of Modified Mag, and therefore, have to be very careful about what i say here (for risk of getting sued)

There are a number of misconceptions in the posts that have preceded me that i would like to clarify regarding the perceived reasons behind why Primedia started this event series.

1) Vision Entertainment is an events company, not a magazine company. They own and operate the Hot Import Nights series.

2) Primedia owns a number of rapidly shrinking import titles (legal note: based on ABC circulation audits, book size & page count). These titles have "likely" become far less profitable. The February issue of Super Street was a mere 154 pages ... In past years we were used to seeing Super Street more like 300 pages. In the month of February, Modified Mag had the most pages of any import magazine.

3) Hot Import Nights is becoming more profitable.

4) Primedia recongizes that its import magazine titles are losing profits (probably, i can't say for sure) and therefore, things need to change. They lost signficant market share to Modified Mag. They need to find new revenue/profit streams.

5) Primedia is trying to replace old revenue streams being lost to Modified with new ones - ie. event series.

Now, the Hard Drive / WDC series is not an initiative of the import title group. It has not been firmly supported by Super Street or other import car magazines (other than a back of the book ad). It is apparently an initiative of Motor Trend, and one that some of the editors of import titles are not a supporter of (strictly a rumor i have heard).

The Primedia import titles are supporting 2 event series: After Dark Tour (a template copy of HIN) and Tuner Bash.

So... if you are expecting (as a driver) to get top-notch magazine coverage from WDC, you will likely be very disappointed -- unless you plan to attend "After Dark" or "Tuner Bash"

On the other hand, Modified Mag - which has now grown to become possibly the #1 import title will be supporting the Formula D series in 2005. We will be again producing a top-notch event guide, covering each event in our magazine, and giving drift cars plenty of love in our book.

We hope that you will support Formula D, and not give into the greed of Primedia.

One final thing i want to clarify regarding magazine versus TV. It has been proven many times over in the magazine industry that print exposure has a much more long-lasting effect on consumers. People buy it because they WANT the magazine. People flip through TV channels because they are bored. How many people would watch G4 or Spike if they had to pay $4.99 per show they wanted??? Not very many!
With that in mind, we played a major sponsor role in a television show last year on Spike TV. Spike is approximately 10 times larger than G4 in terms of audience. From our 2 times per show 30-second commercial, in-show branding, and all of our billboards, we received only about 200-300 more unique visitors to our web site, and only a handful of subscriptions. We receive more subscriptions from our insert cards than we did from an entire 3 months of TV time.

Magazines are still the single most important place for "exposure" for drivers.

[Slapshotnerd]

While this is my first post here, i'm far from a n00b to this board or "the scene". In fact, you can see my Formula D coverage in the March issue of HCI magazine.

Rob - good to have you here. However, there are a few things I'd like to clear up...

1 - Vision Event was purchased last year by a large investment firm based out of Boston, MA, and is now known as Action Media. They still own and operate Hot Import Nights. But there is now an outside investor, not just Rich Goodwin. Rich made an announcement about this change at Hot Import Nights Chicago last year.

2 - The Import Auto Group IS in fact the ones throwing the HDL / WDC series. This group is the one that has planned events such as Trek, Ultimate Street Car Challenge, and Import Tuner Model Search. Super Street is part of the LA branch of Primedia, which includes Euro Tuner, and they have their own events which they are planning (Super Street Tour, the Super Street Studio at HIN last year, etc). While TunerBash and other events are a co-production, both the McMullen Argus side and the LA branch have their own events. While Super Street may not have illicitly signed on to the HDL / WDC events (just yet), they are still being planned by the marketing heads at Import Tuner / Sport Compact Car / Turbo / etc in the Import Auto Group.

3 - RUMOR - At one point last year, Primedia made an offer to purchase Vision.

4 - The same investment firm which owns vision also now owns Hachette Filipacchi Media. This is the company that produces both "Road and Track" & "Car and Driver" magazine. Whether the company will use these magazines in direct cooperation with the HIN show series has yet to be announced (to my knowledge).

I will leave my other comments about what is good or bad for drifting, or the possible motivations of various companies, etc until later. For now, I'm heading out the door to see what the WDC Media Day has to offer...

[Slapshotnerd]

Now, the Hard Drive / WDC series is not an initiative of the import title group. It has not been firmly supported by Super Street or other import car magazines (other than a back of the book ad). It is apparently an initiative of Motor Trend, and one that some of the editors of import titles are not a supporter of (strictly a rumor i have heard).

Just got back from the media day. Super Street probably had the largest presence there. John Nadari and Ricky Chu were both there, as was some of their advertising staff. I saw Nads talking with Verena Mei and a few of the other drifters, he's definately going all out with this event.

Evan Griffey (Turbo) was also there, with Henry Dukeyper (IT and others) shooting pics. Brendan Lopez (European Car / other titles) was shooting some video, and there were 2 or 3 other video crews there shooting. Outside of myself and Chris from Overboost, and someone else I recognize (i was told someone from drifting.com ??) there was little non-primedia press there.

so that settles another "rumor".

[AlexPfeiffer]

Thank you guys for the information, snapshot, craig, and rob. That does help to clear up a few things.