“The Hard Call” by Formula D Judge Ken Takahashi

[TougeTora]

Took him ta skool, didncha?

Then let's look at #4 in points, Dai. Dai's sponsor - Pacific Rim - is HIS company.

Hey, well done with the quash on all that, I could not have said it better myself.

1 point of correction however. The owner of Pac Rim a.k.a. iloveracing.com actually has a friend, that introduced Dai to him. The owner of Pac Rim has admitted that he is merely the principle in the team, can trailer the car well, but doesnt drive it. He(Forgive me, I can't remember the man's name, C.R.S. has taken hold), brought Drift-or-Dai Yoshihara into the states to drive for him. Dai doesnt own the company. BUT...heheh...in that case, regardless, where the hell is this pandering??

I saw nothing but feirce competition in the entire 2005 season, along with some interesting mistakes. The judging is actually harsh sometimes, very on the ball. Maybe ya might find that sort of b.s. in the roundyrounds(nascar), but ya aint gonna find the political crap in Formula D.

Tora

[dreamdrivedrift]

jerry tsai is his name

[TougeTora]

Thanks, I couldnt remember for the life of me. that companies been around for ages.
Heh! I watched that episode on G4 where they did that whole peice on him like a month ago, but only saw it once, so kinda...yeah...couldn't remember.

Also for Motdyn "I suggest FD to ban passing UNLESS THE LEAD CAR CLEARLY MAKES A MISTAKE."

I agree with that whole heartedly and I HAVE to say, I have seen situations where the pass just was NOT avoidable (Point in case, where the Gush dove in, real hot, knowing Rhys ta be the consistently aggressive driver, and when Rhys rather unexpectedly found his speed bleeding off through the apex-power steering fade-as I recall, Gushi, in order to maintain his drift, tucked it in, and then there was that bit of contact after Ken realised that he had done something that standardly would have been frowned on, he lets off, as Rhys got on it, they rubbed bumpers), personally, that is the kind of situation, that yes, yer wrecking your car, maybe, but it IS motorsports. There IS risk involved, and contrary to popular belief, remember, this started as STREET RACING. It is Touge. It maybe evolved, and the reality of it maybe a lil bit different than its actual roots, but passing is an unavoidable aspect. I do believe that the pass might be okay, but I think it should be in situations where the lead car did something that forces someone out ahead and the pass should not be "attempted". I mean, I am all for the switch hitting dog-fight of the tandem, NOT versus aspect. But yes, the pass should be monitored and if it's not a "proper"(due to unavoidable circumstances) pass, then it should be penalised. If it is something that couldnt be avoided, then let it happen. I don't think a PASS should at ANY TIME warrant a higher level of points award. It should be REMOVED from the win/loss equation ENTIRELY.
When I say that, I mean that it shouldnt be what could possibly give the win.
Drifting isnt about being in front. Its about style and vehicle control...The BALANCE of speed, angle, power and aesthetics...NOT first to the finish.

But it IS head to head. So saying it isnt racing...well...not in the traditional sense, but it is about speed and competition. I still call it racing. The parameters for winning the "race" differ from the standard however.

Okay, this is getting too long. I agree. Its about suckin up and getting buddy buddy without over doing it and gettin rubby rubby. It isnt about the pass.
Its about the flare.
And rally doesnt pass cuz there is a minute and a half between launches...
and when there is a pass, its cuz a slower car decides to be sportsman like and get out of the way

So there is that...My own 3.50 or 9.00. Whatever its worth.

Tora

[vrtblacksheep86]

I'm sorry man you couldn't be further away from the reality of what drifting is about.
Drifting isn't about being in front. Wrong! It is Drifting is about who's Papa. Who's gonna outlast who, who's gonna break down mechanically, who's gonna bury there car intot he wall, the hillside the curb.
Drifting is when you go out running with your team you try and drive as hard as the guy in front of you and you put the pressure on him to go faster. If you empai like fat Daddy, then you teach your team to go faster. Force them to learn.
I can recall 3 am at night and doing everything I could to run up the @sses of every 180/silvia/skyline/ laurel in my teams crews asses. Fender to fender as team mates. If you spin I beetter get around ya. if your slower you get left behind or learn your place until you earn a spot further to the front. I can reacll fat daddy and I in a full slide in the rain and loking to my right and seeing a 180sx head light flipping up and down beside my right arm. It was fat Daddy telling me to go faster and pushing me harder. Thats team drifting for real.
Running against/with other teams has a totally diffrent meaning. There are rival teams and there are those guys like Fat Daddy that would see some of the posers out there and would hop into his car to chase them down and humble them. If you didn't see him then you'd see one of several crews go out to humble them. It's all about your own capabilities asking yourself, "Am I gonna sit here and let this guy get away with thinking he's the cats crap? You get out there and your crew and drive as hard as you can to run up his butt and although you're not maliciously trying to hurt him, you're out there humbling him. You'll sister crews go out and chase down a single car and sometimes see 9-10 cars fender deep in each others @asses.
Attrition is the Mission! Who's gonna last longer out there and wo's going home witha bent control arm or rim. Who's picking his bumper outta the bushes and who's gonna be joking around next to the Fat man as he lights a smoke of the glowing orange manifold of a freshly raped car.

When it's all said and doen there might be a rivalry in diffrent car crews and individuals, but it's about who can push the limits the furthest adn who can show the other guy up. Being passed is a very big dealand yes it means you gave up your lead and the other guy over took you with skill. Want it back?! Go get him then and either force him to give in, wreck or pass him. Thats the laws of the streets and it should be the same in Comp.

Screw, "One more time", screw judges that've never been behind the wheel or on the streets in large groups, screw this misconception it's about style finesse and angle...It's about wearing the guys @ss out in front of you or showing the fool behind you he has no right to be back there behind you and leaving him in the dust........ Scoring on a palm pilot?! OMG!! It's not hard to look at two guys going really damn fast and say well, he was hauling *Censored**Censored**Censored* but that guy wore him the hell out....

Then again Rhys was very right saying that there are crowd favorites and commentators shouldn't hype one particular driver over the other. Drifting (In the American competition Scene) is about the,"Underdog" sure! But it's morphed into, "Who's the bad boy crew or individual hyped into being the biggest bad *Censored**Censored**Censored*"... I'd rather know who the daddy of the drift alliance is? I don't give a damn aboutthem being a crew of derilects...Who cares! I wanna know who's Daddy in that team if there is one. Who's the Alpha male?! Otherwise, It's all BS hype making the judges say dumb sh!t and then one more time and then style finesse and angle...Bah,whatever!

On my behalf, I never claimed to be super drifter, but I can hold my own and that comes with 13 years exper. adn driving and interacting both here and japan. Everyone knows I back this up with being in the drifting scene since 93-94 and an active member of both the O.G. Crew Velocity and the current Team Hinga Cali/Okinawa.

Drifitngs about who's mother fetching papa....

2006 should be about who's Daddy and who's not! Not what car is Daddy. The car doesn't drive itself.


Booney

[TougeTora]

Don't take $h|t out of context.

"I'm sorry man you couldn't be further away from the reality of what drifting is about.
Drifting isn't about being in front."

Hey brah,

I dont believe that you understood that in the context it was meant. OBVIOUSLY there IS a point where someone is going to be out front.

But lets look at the definition of drifting.
"Exceeding your tires' limits of adhesion, exhibiting a lateral slip, resulting in an oversteered condition."

Isn't THAT what drifting is all about?
Seriously, to sit there and tell a driver/drifter what drifting is all about, as if I don't understand the "reality" as you may see it, well, yer asking to get schooled. I aint saying either that I am "Mr.Billy" when it comes to drifting, but again, the drifting in competition is NOT the streets and you cannot compare the two. On the streets, the bad attitude, the "rat packing" someone in multiple vehicles might fly, the "wreck your opposition" mentality, might be okay, but it isnt about that in professional competition. For one, if you gotta wreck yer opponent to win...you're a freakin loser. Plain and simple.
If I am gonna pass someone, I am gonna do it DURING my drift, not have to regrip to do it. I am gonna find the line and take it. IF, I feel I need to be up front, which I most likely will. But I am NOT gonna need to "wreck" My opponent to do it. I also, wont have to re-grip to do it. If the "sport" of drifting isnt about the finesse of driver control, and its not about angle, and its not about some sort of aesthetic, what the hell IS it about? What the hell do ya mean by "Whose the papa"?? Is there a general RULE of thumb about who the papa is? cuz if its NOT the guy that can stay in front, or that can stay sucked up on the bumper of the guy in front, or even who can pass CLEAN WHILE DRIFTING, then I dont know what it is. I will tell ya this:
If as you say, all it is about is climbing the *Censored**Censored**Censored* of your opponent and passing him and being the fastest...

I can do that to you and everyone else with CLEAN RACE LINES and ZERO DRIFT. Drifting is about slip-angle, car control and tiresmoke. In pro-drifting competition, it is NOT street rules for a reason. Being a street racer Myself,
1979 Trans Am 406c.i.d., 79 Scirroco N/A and a 81 RX-7 12-A, I know for a fact, that we are out to have fun, not wreck noone. Yes, we take it seriously, but you want to wreck someone...wait till ya get out of the car.
Put em up and see who'll wreck who. Dont wreck your opponent. Yes, its about pushing limits, but dont take what I said about it as if its something you apply to the street crews drifting. What I made a statement about is something you apply to the "regulated sport". And I agree. If a judge has never been behind the wheel, or doesnt understand the physics of what is going on, then they dont belong in the tower.

But just dont take what I have said out of context. All that will do is cause me and anyone else to think you dont know what you are talking about. I have quite a few years behind the wheel too. I pride Myself on clean passes, zero wrecks, and earning respect behind MY wheel brah. But drifting is NOT about who is necessarily the Fastest. nor is it about who is picking up their parts or getting towed home. In fact, its about all those that DONT do that.
Its about getting sideways and NOT wrecking yourself, OR your opponent and STILL gaining that respect of being balls out. It IS about the aesthetics.
Sometimes, yes, its about whose in front. Only if whose in front can leave in the smoke the guy behind.
Peace. Tora

[vrtblacksheep86]

taking stuff out've context..

I'm sorry man you couldn't be further away from the reality of what drifting is about.

(C'mon man, the fairy-tale washed clean of the truth and scrubbed free to meet the Safety- Nazis aprroval version, or the I've lived a drifters life in and outta Japan for the last 12-13 years of my life version)

Ya see you go and are probably still getting the the media overkill version and I have the, "I sat in the rain and learned to change a control arm in the rain at 3am Typhoon season" version.

When people here in the states look at a video or a magazine, it's a carefully constructed money making device. No one wants the real version cause it'll get them sued for being a contributing factor in Darwins theory. the new Gen of drifters read an article written by some weenie that just discovered drifting eat it up and the first chance to flex the techno babble , regurgitate it back into the lap of someone thats been a driter for a hella long time nad laughed at and most likely mocked. He also gonna blah blah about his expertise of racing theory and application to drifting.
Sorry man, Drifting is about a lifestyle of derelicts and a class structure that you'll most likely never get to be a part of(here or in japan, Jpan being the real deal of course) It's a bout being a loner and or joining a team. It's about living as a team and spending 3 nights straight in a junkyard fixing the teams cars before a day of burning tires up. Only to hve to tow 2 home behind a silvia thats trying to race an Evo with a hachi- roku behind it in tow.
**Oh hey the tire smoke phenomena, is an American thing and for show only. Very few real drifters on the streets try and clous the streets for everyone. Ya see it's stupid to do that cause the police might think something strange was going on.
**So I need to get schooled? I know more about the etiquette revolving around the scene then most people in the states. Most American crews have no real structure ...(but I digress thats not what dritings about).....It really is and there's so much more. Wanna learn more?

Drifting isn't about being in front."
(Uhmm, If I say it's about wearing the guy out, and staying up in his fenders then let me clarify. I personally like to be the guy chasing, cause I wanna see how you act under the pressure. My team Mates here in Hinga Cali know that and as soon as we find a venue that we can run tandem, then Im gonna wear everyone of them out! This as a team is how you learn faster...Getting up in someones guts. You think the best drivers learned to chase people by swift lines and tire smoke. No by getting into someones @ss! as a team you have to stay closer together and it's about repetead practical application and error that you learn. I know the states hasn't gotten to team comps yet..in due time....

Hey brah,

I dont believe that you understood that in the context it was meant. OBVIOUSLY there IS a point where someone is going to be out front.
(Uhmmm,....uh huh, I agree. Yep!))

But lets look at the definition of drifting.
"Exceeding your tires' limits of adhesion, exhibiting a lateral slip, resulting in an oversteered condition."
I got a definition for it and it's not that cookie cutter crap. It's a lifestyle, a culture and one that came here from another shore. Don't try and lecture me with this crap definition stuff. Drifting is tearing *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* up and having a damn good time sliding yer ride through local areas that people gather to show off or step up to the plate. Where you learn or get taught. Drifting is earning your Crew Sticker or out've respect get a tomodachi sticker. Drifting is the sound of a Inline 6 cylinder Toyota and it's waste gate cracked wide open. Drifting is a hachi roku double cluthing an S-Driftig all the way down a 500 yard straight stretch stretch... Brother I have more a comprhension of what drifting is then half the damn scene hear. I've been drifting as long or longer then most of the drifters here have been driving. Look for your definiton, make sure you rewrite that as "American Competition Drifting"

Isn't THAT what drifting is all about?
Seriously, to sit there and tell a driver/drifter what drifting is all about, as if I don't understand the "reality" as you may see it, well, yer asking to get schooled.

(C'mon bud go back 13 years and help me and the 14 other guys and the two skylines that got my Chaser off Senega-Jimas hillsid, and you can start to school me.)

I aint saying either that I am "Mr.Billy" when it comes to drifting, but again, the drifting in competition is NOT the streets and you cannot compare the two. On the streets, the bad attitude, the "rat packing" someone in multiple vehicles might fly, the "wreck your opposition" mentality, might be okay, but it isnt about that in professional competition.

For one, if you gotta wreck yer opponent to win...you're a freakin loser.
**Oh yer so gonna get it for this one!**
(Well of course no one wrecks anyone with malicious intent, thats asking to get shanked. Drifting is a game Nerves of steel, courage and about a single percent of sheer stupidity. You get up in someones fenders for several reasons and he stays there and trys to stay in front of you for several reasons, but get this sometimes some one loses it and into the curb they go. Sometimes into the barrier they go.)

In pro driving no one trys to wreck anyone? WTF! How blind are you?...Where did the tire smoke come from....Ever try to drive through that kinda tire smoke. Makes for good crashes, huh? So all the pro's are losers, huh? You think Nomuken built his R34 and started Smoking tires cause they looked cool. No cause he found himself in front all the time and people would wear him out. So as any innovator would do he and the team at Blitz came up with a novel idea. and Nomukens image was set. Why not make a smokey display and wow the fans? Whoa, The Japanese loved his cars power, the smokey trails adn his opponents would have to cope or crash...No one tries to crash anyone maliciously.
Hmm, round 2......
So tell me why did Nobuteru used the repeating flashy lights in his HKS Silvias Mai-no Denki...you think cause it made the american crowd go nuts...That was a secondary effect....Lemme crack my Silvias conversions blow off in your ear and flicker my hi beams while im in your side view and see if that isnt a distractor...But no one needs to try and crash anyone just unnerve them a bit.
C'mon man, gimme a break you're not teaching me anythig I dont already already comprehend here.

Plain and simple.
If I am gonna pass someone, I am gonna do it DURING my drift, not have to regrip to do it. I am gonna find the line and take it. IF, I feel I need to be up front, which I most likely will. But I am NOT gonna need to "wreck" My opponent to do it. I also, wont have to re-grip to do it. If the "sport" of drifting isnt about the finesse of driver control, and its not about angle, and its not about some sort of aesthetic, what the hell IS it about?

You said it real Drifting is Sport Drifting..Yer right there cause, drifting isn't all that panty waste aesthetic crap listed above. **Shudder**Whew that's right out've a magazine review er something.

What the hell do ya mean by "Whose the papa"?? Is there a general RULE of thumb about who the papa is? cuz if its NOT the guy that can stay in front, or that can stay sucked up on the bumper of the guy in front, or even who can pass CLEAN WHILE DRIFTING, then I dont know what it is. I will tell ya this:
If as you say, all it is about is climbing the *Censored**Censored**Censored* of your opponent and passing him and being the fastest...

(No ya see, you have no clue. Drifting ...the real sort is about getting into someones guts and staying there. Sorry, if I catch you on my bumper and we go sideways, ill give ya a little rear panel and laugh at your @ss when you can't figure out how you ended up in the bushes. Have you ever toyed with people ad grabbed alil' more sidebrake ten necessary and intentionally slowed your car down more then needed. Makes the guy in the back choke.....If he's good he'll hang in there or go around ya on the out side. If he's bluffin he might just choke nad spin. But that'd be a bad thing, "you're tring to wreck me thing", huh. I call it playing around with my team mates.


I can do that to you and everyone else with CLEAN RACE LINES and ZERO DRIFT. Drifting is about slip-angle, car control and tiresmoke.
(Again Tiger, only "Sport Drifting" and the media is BIG on tire smoke.) Don't let it cloud the reality of it okay..

In pro-drifting competition, it is NOT street rules for a reason. Being a street racer Myself,
(The rules are is there are no rules. No one stands there and argues how many car lengths you can have. No one says all cars have to rated at so fast or so much horsepower. Sorry bud, in essence the only real rules in drifting is that you cant intentionally slam into anyone and Oh yah, all the sanctioning safety rules. driver wise.)

1979 Trans Am 406c.i.d., 79 Scirroco N/A and a 81 RX-7 12-A, I know for a fact, that we are out to have fun, not wreck noone. Yes, we take it seriously, but you want to wreck someone...wait till ya get out of the car.
Put em up and see who'll wreck who. Dont wreck your opponent. Yes, its about pushing limits, but dont take what I said about it as if its something you apply to the street crews drifting. What I made a statement about is something you apply to the "regulated sport". And I agree.

UHmm, I speak with Pro's all the time and I don't get all this regulated crap. You gonna tell me about all this poo and hang on i have one for ya....
**Lemme use this for an example, cages are suppose to be of such and such a rated quality. No gaps in welds and so on. I looked at almost every car on the scene recetly and out've all of them Cage safety alone most cages aren't compliant in that one area alone. Rules in sport drifting are token checks and balances. Don't bore me.

If a judge has never been behind the wheel, or doesnt understand the physics of what is going on, then they dont belong in the tower.
(we agree to agree)

But just dont take what I have said out of context. All that will do is cause me and anyone else to think you dont know what you are talking about.
ha, most people do know me and know Im real and not some fool dribbling off text book crap , but speaking from experience.

I have quite a few years behind the wheel too.
**As a drifter?**
I pride Myself on clean passes, zero wrecks, and earning respect behind MY wheel brah. But drifting is NOT about who is necessarily the Fastest. nor is it about who is picking up their parts or getting towed home.
** No yer right there, we laugh at them fools!!..and yes I've been that fool several times.
In fact, its about all those that DONT do that.
**Yer fluffing the truth again with PC crap. Just stop there. thanks!

Its about getting sideways and NOT wrecking yourself, OR your opponent and STILL gaining that respect of being balls out. It IS about the aesthetics.
Sometimes, yes, its about whose in front. Only if whose in front can leave in the smoke the guy behind.
Peace. Tora

Okay Okay here ya go,.....

I have more time to elaborate and be more specific.

Drifting that you see originated in the streets and Im well aware that it's been adapted to meet the needs of a regulated sport. Blah, blah blah it's been said a million times and being a street racer and a drifter are two diffrent creatures. To this date at 32 yrs old I would never claim to ever be a street racer. Racing is getting from one point to the other before everyone else in one fashion or the other. So please, no need to clarify.

Drifting as I see it and have lived it (Not street Racing) is not a street race. So no need to seperate the two, I got it.

Individually, drifting is about pushing our own limits and sorry if you don't understand that...No one gets good with out plowing a car into the hill, curb or the guy that spun in front of him. You and I come from two diffrent versions of drifting man. MInes no the watered down media blitzed we'll get sued for sayig bad things so dont version. So allow me to state the my version. The one thats not so damn plastic cookie cutter and played out. I dont really give a damn what the states has to say about it in the streets. I learned there and a grip of your pros did too. They didnt learn by going at it over and over and whiping out cones. Sorry, they learned by plowing cars in to curbs and what not. So don't try and say I wanna wreck anyone, cause you don't know what I mean. I'm talking about you crashing your car trying to learn or someone crashing their car trying to keep up with you. Ya see the guys in the back crash too. don't forget about them. They get complacent following and run a little deep and find themselves parked in the bushes, under a Hino Truck and so forth. So remember that there's more then one way to wreck a car. Guys that've been there know that, get this...
If your out running and someone comes up on you , you can do one of several things. In most cases drifters will try and out do and out perform another guy. This sometimes leads to a game of chase...a sorta who can show up who. The guy up front does everything he can to seperate him from his tail and is still drifting. (Ever seen a Supercharged Hachi Roku chase a 180sx for an hour straight, Most likely not? thanks I got that check in the box and i Japan too) The guy in the rear does everything he can to stay on the guy in the front. Sometimes there a grip of guys doing this....Ya see, drifting isnt a 3 pass deal it's several repetitive evolutions. Players come and go and teams chase teams.
Drifting in every text book whack magazine article that you read (and plagerize) is gonna be defined as this or that when in fact it's coming most of the time from a whack journalist, again whose only ridden with an American driver at a track event or might have gotten lucky and RODE briefly with a Japanese drifter. Maybe even gotten some competition version of drifting droned into them so that they repeat the same dribble over and over. Sorry, living in Japan for a multiple of years and Cutting my teeth in a GX71 Chaser and around 13 hachi rokus gives me alot of know. I stayed in them lil pitbull rust buckets cause beiung the under dog made me work harder to keep up with all them other cars. when i moved onto the other cars drifting was even easier. am i pro nope, do I wanna be, nope cause Im not gonna let someone monkey me aroudn without getting paid. Several of your pros don't get paid....
about street drfting and sport drifting. here's a news flash. They're trying to get it as close to the real deal as possible. why do you thing the street legal cars comp have been in the grapevine. cause you cant put a curb out there ...cause you can't put guardrail out there, so how they gonna limit it....ah, Street legal cars...yawn. c'mon man.
Hmm, why would Hiro Inada (Option Magazine - Dai's brother) invite myself to dinner after winning a comp and ask me about bringing street drifting to the scene competitively and what myself a 2 other American Ol School Drifters thought would be productive for the street theme scene...I'm not a pro but he came to the comp saw me run...Heard about my rep and still asked to talk. So I must have a clue.
My suggestion: How about ditching alot of the hokey pokey crap and get back to the basics of wearing each other out on the streets....Or make it appear so.
Ya see Tiger, I'm no idiot when it comes to this crap. Sorry if Im not gonna fluff yer ego with more, "I'm gonna school you attutude!". That's not my intent.
Simply put, the real scene in drifting is about respect and who can hold his own. So dont get that wrong idea, it's not about wrecking someone. If they crash cause the pressure is too great and they chose to try and stick it out then you get respect when you come back out with banged up panels and/or another car.
Thats the reason there's teams and Tomodachi stickers and what not. Respect. Sorry man, there's only one way yer getting a tomodachi Sticker and it's not about being a fetching ballerina in the drivers seat.

Drifting is about respect and knowing how to apply the streets to the track for all sport drifters. When drifting goes the same route as drag racing, us street drifters are gonna being around yucking it up when some clown shows up on the streets and tries to tell us ..haha, get thi....You didn't have enough angle nad the tire smoke just wasn't there.

Tora, thanks for the interesting read, but if you wanna check someone do more homework on them ..I may be winding down in this scene but as a drifter I've forgotten more then you're prolly ever gonna know......

WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE SOME SAD WEDGE SOMEONES GONNA TRY AND USE TO SEPERATE JAPAN FROM AMERICA AND THE STREETS FROM THE TRACK. SORRY, ALL DRIFTING IS FROM THE STREETS AND WILL ALWAYS BE FROM THE STREETS. OTHERWISE ITS A HYPED UP VERSION OF CAT AND MOUSE. NOT DRIFTING AS I LIVED THROUGH MY ENTIRE LATE TEEN AND EARLY ADULT YEARS, BUT THE MEDIA HYPED CRAP EVERYONES BEEN BRAINWASHED TO ACCEPT...


See ya in the streets...

Booney

[hachirolla808]

What's a "tomodachi sticker"? Is it like one of those tamaguchi toys???

[TougeTora]

Alright, Blacksheep, I can buy all of that. You clarified yourself well, but also, regardless of what continent we're drifting on, EVERYONE, and I dont care WHO ya talk to, they are ALL going to see different things in drifting. What its about, why, to the what to the where to the who. It dont matter, everyones gonna have a different opinion as to what it is that they see in it, what they like about it, what they dont like.

But as for the fluff..heh...ALL of what I said had to do with the sport, here in the states and what it is rather painfully apparent that people are looking for.
Both to make the sport and what they already hope it is, or isnt or whatever.

On another point, I never plagerized anyone. I dont appreciate the connotation.
I appreciate that you arent trying to fluff an ego, and try to school someone, considering I have had TONS of seat time myself, I aint a fool when it comes to being a driver, and wether the ideals of drifting in japan differ from street racing or not, really doesnt matter. The mentality of a street racer, wether they are pulling a straightline outrun or they are drifting the canyon doesnt change. It is all about respect on the streets and to be able to do it and have fun, not wreck, well, *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* happens. Personally its never happened to me.
I also, hadnt till I had My RX, EVER run with a crew. I have always, and so had My friends, essentially run alone...I dont have nearly the drift experience, but I also do have some. most of MY 13 years behind the wheel were in outrun, outmaneuvre style chase situations...But I have spent ALOT of time buried up in someones fender....not wrecked, just close enough to shave...

So far as I can tell, you will always be oldschool and keepin it in the streets and that is commendable. I personally am on the fence on the pro issue. But really, I dont want to be a corporate lapdog about it either. I would prefer to sponsor Myself...Or my own team.

What I was speaking about the tiresmoke and all that $h|t was plain and simply due to the fact that ya see alot of it here, in the pro or semi pro competitions and I realise that its a "track" thing and you wouldnt see that on the streets...on the streets that is a quick way to a reckless driving or exhibition of speed ticket. ESPECIALLY here in cali.

So ya dont have to climb MY frame, obviously about what I know, or dont know, considering that I KNOW what the street is about, and I worry for the "Track" version...That it will get away from its beginnings and its ideals. But that might be inevitable and though ya might have to take the medicine with a spoon of sugar, ya might wanna prep that spoon, cuz just as ANY sort of racing, once it starts getting regulated...well...there goes the freakin neighborhood.

I am glad that I misunderstood you about the wreckin someone, cuz yeah, I realise that people will wreck...especially if they push their limits too hard. But to do it intentionally is shitty and I am glad that you aint that type of person.

At anyrate, thanks, some of that last commentary was funny as all hell. I can appreciate it, cuz I can relate to most of it. I haven't been to japan to cut my teeth, but I would love to. so far as the silvia wanting to race with a 86 in tow, that $h|t is funny. Almost sounds familiar, but I was doing that with trailer in an S10. Okay, anyways, nice to meet you, and yeah...yer knowing. Just understand, I know what you were talking about, now that you clarified what you meant. I dont prescribe to the cleaned up, packaged and presented "Market Plan" version of drifting, but to me, there IS an aesthetic about how a vehicle moves, from the outside.
When it comes to being behind the wheel, I dont give a rats @$$ about all that. I am just out there to roast on a mother. When its all said and done, I will either be giving or gaining some respect and comin back out to take it back or give it up again.

See, to ME, personally, I am about the driving. I am about the adrenaline of third gear at 75 and climbing, looking @ 8500 RPM...hoping to god, I smoke a mother before I blow my clutch, oil cooler line or blow a tire...and as a note, I have never had much of a functional e-brake, so I dont know what it is to hold it too long. I dont race or drift that way...I have however had to learn to drop my tranny and replace my clutch by myself in the rain with two stands and one small hydraulic jack. on a hill. dayum that sucked. At anyrate, I am about the taking it to the brink, to finding My limits and exceeding them.
To this date, I dont know that I HAVE limits. I aint never ate a curb. or a guard rail. Not an experience I want, but come what may...

But everyone has limits. I just havent seem to have found mine yet.

Workin on it.:-D Peace, Tora

[D1 DRIFTER]

BOONEY DUDE YOU JUST TELLING IT HOW IT IS TO US KIDS YOU OLD MAN..... i understand where you are coming from even tho i lack major experience, you put it into words that are easily understandable but are right to the point.. you da man see around dude

-Riley

Team Hinga(cali)

[TougeTora]

"BOONEY DUDE YOU JUST TELLING IT HOW IT IS TO US KIDS YOU OLD MAN"

Hey, man, who you callin old brah?!

Sheesh, he's only 32, ya makin me feel ancient youngin! LOL

Yeah, you definitely speak it straight Booney, I appreciate that, just know that even if I don't have the "Drift" experience you do, I aint sucked into the hype either. In fact, it's prolly the one thing I can't stand the most. The "hype". Thanks for stayin real brah. Peace. See ya on the streets. Someday

Tora

[vrtblacksheep86]

Touge Tora,
Man, I don't wish or want anything bad for ya, just to share a bit of my experience with you and anyone out there. The more and more I read from you, the more and more you seem to be a respectable member in the scene. if youever find me at a venue and know for sure it's me. Gimme a good kick in the shins. I'd be more then happy to chat it up with you. Here's to your good times drifting adn tearing it up both on our level and maybe someday if your endeavors carry you there the pro comps.

Riley,
Would you expect anything short of brutually honest? Now get your lil butt out to more events. That Pat kid is over running your position! (Riley is the first young driver in the states I walked up to and offered a Team Hinga tomodachi sticker for those that don't know....excellent driver for his age and the lack of experience!)

Crew stickers and Tomodachi stickers...Tamagochi are a digi egg. Tomodachi is friend or crew. Tomodachi Stickers are when you gain the respect of crews I dunno look it up in esquire magazine with Ken Gushi on the front.

Crazy Hawaiian, haha, Im not an elitist or angry, I'ma realist telling it how it is and was....Maybe how it's gonna be in the future. History is repetitive ad ya seen what happened with the drag scene. Did the industry blow itself up and suck itself dry with over marletization and tire smoke and blah blah blah...Hmm, I dunno?

Just keep it as close to the origins as possible and drifting will do fine. Teach the newer and not always younger drivers the background and how the culture of drifting is suppose to be and the scene will mold itself.

Otherwise you're gonna have these fake @ss little pockets of people claiming to be drifters and then when the rubber meets the road its a big front....I still see it today when I roll up and see guys lying about their hachi rokus capabilities, their own capabilities, their drifting experiences...(it's kinda funny cause I won't stop em, it's rude ya know) Then someone'll sneak up and ruin the surprise and dime me out for who I am and then it's all hush-hush...hehe.
** The usual routine (hehe)
Familiar friend -Oh man, this guy Booney built a bazilion HachiRokus, This guy has an RB powered 240sx with a 300 pt tigwelded rollcage all the way to the trunk. Oh he's got his I/C hidden in the fender...and when the guys ask me to see my ride I walk them over to my Previa with R32 wheels and go yep there it is...Haha! the look on their faces is worth a million junk yard lugnuts.

All in all do what you gotta do to get by but keep it close to it's roots or were gonna end up with Sideways Nascar racing and I think thats called sprint car already...

Nice to meet all ya'll again. Iim headed back underground.


Booney

[hatebbobbarker]

hahah, pat kicks *Censored**Censored**Censored*

[CrazyHawaiian]

I understand what you are saying, but that was the longest post I've ever seen. Hahaha. Anyway, I think we all need to accept the fact that the street scene in the US will never be as good as it is in Japan. There is a major difference between how the two places enforce the local laws. I've never lived in Japan so I can't say I'm 100% correct, but from what I've seen the police seem somewhat lax over there in Japan. I know a bunch of people that have gotten "reckless driving" for being caught here in the USA. Because of this our street scene is different, alot of places are only good for 15-20 minutes, then you have to move on to a different spot. So its not like everyone meets at one spot and stays there for a long time. Less likely to meet people down for some tandem drifting. I agree its the best way to learn fast, be pushed by your peers. It just dosnt happen as often as it would in Japan. I also dont mind crashing my car or getting bumped, I accept it as a part of drifting. In fact I prepare for it, always having an extra set of body panels laying around and painting everything single stage so its easy to match. But still, if I see someone screw me up on purpose I'm gonna be pissed off about it. What happns from there would all depend on what they say or how they act. If they acting like a punk I'm gonna wanna throw down. But not alot of people are like that in the scene. I see alot of mutual respect and to me its good for the sport. So because of this I really respect everyone and the sport itself.

[TougeTora]

Yeah Booney! I really couldn't have said that about the roots of it better, well, maybe but don't misunderstand me Brah, I never thought that ya had it out for me and I respect what your saying, agree with most of it, though on occasion, there are a couple things that were said that nag me and then I ferget about them. But it's mainly in the angst that comes out of you when your talking to people sometimes. I tend to be pretty brutally honest myself, so I know where your intentions are and that is fully respected by me. I know that when I say its about angle and tiresmoke it sounds bad, to a Nihon Touge Exponent, but really, I was throwing that out there because the topic of this particular thread is Formula D and wether the calls that are being made are good and so forth. What it needs to be about is getting out there and makin a go of it, learning from your mistakes (and someone elses) and coming back even better the next round. Regardless of wether we are talking about pure street drift or sanctioned. I agree, that its about pushing and I also appreciate that you feel so strongly about pushing and "stuffing fenders
" and "getting into your opponents guts". I feel the same way about it. I mean, its all fine and good to be sitting there joking with someone about things and then when yer behind the wheel its like a demon unleashes and its all aggression. I dont say that in a bad way, just, like a fury comes out and your gonna be all up in someones face when yer behind the wheel...I dont know if those are good analogies. All I know is that I am like a beast when I am racing. heheh. I would love to kick it with you and chat it up, even get out on the track and maybe rub some fenders, see who really can unnerve who sometime . At anyrate, Crazy, if you think that HIS post was long, LMAO! Okay, anyways, what I am saying is I am glad that you are one of the old skoolerz, keepin it real. I really have to agree with Crazy on the point that the cops here in Cali are flarggin Jack@$$e$ when it comes down to it, they really dont understand what some of us are doing out there and they see it ALL as a threat because of a few...jacknut halfwits...I also have to agree that when it comes down to it, and this is gonna sound SOOOOO redneck, but rubbins racin...its as true in drifting as it is in nascar. I expect something like that to happen and its not far from my mind, ever, that it could, but the intentional crap isnt any good. But I expect and accept I might one day get wrecked. So on that note, here is MY personal opinion on the whole Formula D thing. Its all fine and good to have it judged. But what they need is LONGER runs. And quit with this figure eightish looping $h|t, unless they are gonna run a couple laps at a time. I mean, its all fine and good for a course to loop back, but I would think that it would be better if the freakin thing was longer than a 1/4mile, or whatever they have going on out there...I dont know the precise length, but look at the different setups in the '05 season. I mean, there isnt a mountain road ANYWHERE that does that. well, I know they switchback and so forth, but who races through 4 corners and quits? So as far as keeping it to the real .I guess what I am saying is if it's gonna be the LIKE the real thing, they need to think about bringing it back to the streets. And I dont mean do it on the streets, just, make the courses more accurate to what the Japanese drivers learned on. Keep it traditional. Touge Hard...or Go home. Perhaps even have it set up on closed road courses, that are both technical and fun. And we DO need more places to practice, as well as more organised events, maybe, for drivers to practice and test themselves. They only have ONE drift day in a month, as things stand. In order to keep it growing and safe for everyone. relatively speaking. Okay, I just ranted. lol. At anyrate, I would love ta kick it with you sometime Booney, and you too Crazy, definitely. I'm outie. Peace