Trapping ???

[CrazyHawaiian]

I just watched FD Chicago on DVR and they kept doing this "Drifting 101" segment where they explain things about drifting. Well, one of them was "trapping" and its not something I've heard of before. I wanted to get some input from FD drivers on this. Is this really something people do in FD? Because I've done tandem drifting, and I've never known anyone to purposely try to screw up the guy behind them. The way I see it the guy following should expect that the guy in front might have to make corrections, and its up to the guy following to adapt and correct. What do you guys think about this? I'm wondering if some drivers just aren't as good at adapting as others and came up with "trapping" as the reason they make mistakes? Or maybe something the media came up with to make it more exciting? I dunno hahaha

Side note, hey on the "Drifting 101" segment on Oversteer, was that the LS1 powered S13 built/driven by Mike Peters? Blue paint?

[MonkeySlide]

I just watched FD Chicago on DVR and they kept doing this "Drifting 101" segment where they explain things about drifting. Well, one of them was "trapping" and its not something I've heard of before. I wanted to get some input from FD drivers on this. Is this really something people do in FD? Because I've done tandem drifting, and I've never known anyone to purposely try to screw up the guy behind them. The way I see it the guy following should expect that the guy in front might have to make corrections, and its up to the guy following to adapt and correct. What do you guys think about this? I'm wondering if some drivers just aren't as good at adapting as others and came up with "trapping" as the reason they make mistakes? Or maybe something the media came up with to make it more exciting? I dunno hahaha

Side note, hey on the "Drifting 101" segment on Oversteer, was that the LS1 powered S13 built/driven by Mike Peters? Blue paint?

I haven't seen the episode but the "trapping" they're talking about is I THINK something that is more commonly refered to as "brake checking" ..thats what drivers I've talked to call it anyway.

Really the drivers do it not because they aren't as good as the guy chasing them but its more of a strategy due to knowing your opponent and the capibility of your car on a given course.

For example lets picture a tandem battle between Rhys and Chris Forsberg when he had his S15.

If you know Rhy's style..you know that unless they are on an oval course like Irwindale or the Wall ..Rhys likes to do steadily paced smooth runs.

While Chris no matter where he is..will always drift at the highest speed possible and uses that to try and get steeper angles.

So when they go tandem and Chris has to follow Rhys...Rhys is going to dramatically slow his pace down by "brake checking" because he knows that Chris doesn't like to slow speed drift and it will throw Chris off.

There are no rules against this..however Im not sure how that tactic is regarded among the drifters. Some may think its legit..others may think its cheap move, I dont really know.

Im sure there are ways to defend against brake checking..I have a few ideas myself but Im not sure if they would really work if attempted durnig competition.

[s13/350z]

Yeah its not really cheating its more of a tactic...if the guy is braking and you cant control your car, you deserve to spin. I like it, it seems to make it funner to watch when you know its going on.

[hatebbobbarker]

personally, I like when people brake check rhys, that makes my day.

[Octagon]

I'm pretty sure we should keep defensive tactics like line changes, trapping, charging, and early braking.

This, folks, is COMPETITION!!!!!!! It's incredible that people still throw around the thought that it's not true to the sport. Sport is competition, competition encourages victory.

Victory requires talent. Strategic thought is a talent. Rhys, who's been racing much longer than most anyone out on the grid, has loads and loads of strategy backing up his moves. He's a lot like Alain Prost. Always calculating, always keeping in mind the saying "To win, you don't drive as fast as you can, you drive faster than everyone else."

Quite frankly, Rhys's calm, cool, consistent drifts are a lot more entertaining than watching Ken Gushi wrap his Mustang around the nearest competitor because "he gives it his all every run".

[CrazyHawaiian]

Thats great but here's my problem with it: It dosnt happen in Japan. There is no trapping, no brake checking, and rarely is there contact between cars. I think the entire concept of "trapping" is lame and weak. Thumbs down to USA drifting on this one. I was hoping is was just BS but sounds like its real. You are correct its a competition, the guy in front can win by being faster and better. Winning by screwing up the guy behind you is very weak in my book, no respect.

Part of me also wonders who first came up with this concept. Something tells me it wasn't someone that was leading that did this intentionally. Something tells me it was someone who was following too close and didnt adapt to a correction fast enough resulting in contact. And instead of being able to admit they made a mistake, they blame the guy leading saying it was his fault for correcting. What you guys think?

I hope FD realizes that this should not be a part of drifting. To me its just as lame as the guys that try to cut off line and/or pass while following. The true skill in tandem is the follower being able to matain consistent distance while drifting at speed, regardless of what corrections are made. Sure as hell isn't brake checking people on purpose to screw them up.

[MonkeySlide]

Thats great but here's my problem with it: It dosnt happen in Japan. There is no trapping, no brake checking, and rarely is there contact between cars. I think the entire concept of "trapping" is lame and weak. Thumbs down to USA drifting on this one. I was hoping is was just BS but sounds like its real. You are correct its a competition, the guy in front can win by being faster and better. Winning by screwing up the guy behind you is very weak in my book, no respect.

Part of me also wonders who first came up with this concept. Something tells me it wasn't someone that was leading that did this intentionally. Something tells me it was someone who was following too close and didnt adapt to a correction fast enough resulting in contact. And instead of being able to admit they made a mistake, they blame the guy leading saying it was his fault for correcting. What you guys think?

I hope FD realizes that this should not be a part of drifting. To me its just as lame as the guys that try to cut off line and/or pass while following. The true skill in tandem is the follower being able to matain consistent distance while drifting at speed, regardless of what corrections are made. Sure as hell isn't brake checking people on purpose to screw them up.

Ah dont be so quick to point a finger at the US guys. First of all, not all of them do it. Secondly I've seen Japanese drivers do it too. You dont see it that much with them but it happens.

Also this wasn't something that happend by "accident" its a tactic thats been around for a lil while now. It's not something that can only come about by chance. It's just common sense that if the person can follow you tightly it increases their chances of beating you..so if you can't pull away the only thing you can do is try to disturb their line so they can't get their nose inside.

When you think about it..even though it might seem that this is an underhanded cheap technique..conceptually it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get around..but it will cost you.

Heres my theory...

While brake checking isn't illegal...to my understanding (I could be wrong)purposely causing the chaser to run into you..or making a mistake that causes the chaser to run into you will give the automatic advantage to that person..

So..when someone brake checks you...they are pretty much trying to get you to "flinch" so that you cut your speed or disturb your driving.

The answer? Don't flinch.. If you have a good run on the guy and you have your nose close and you are following him tight..then just dont loose focus..if he brake checks you...dont change a thing...if you hit him then the win is going to go to you anyway because from the outside its just gonna look like they caused you to hit them..and chances are if hes brake checking you are in the low speed part of the course anyway..so the damage shouldn't be too bad if you dont mind fixing it.

So the way I see it..its like playing chicken..the brake checker is trying to get you to punk out..so just dont do it...sure there is a 99% chance of a collision..but hey..if winning means that much to you then screw it..keep your foot down and go.

Of course all of that is just a THEORY I dont really know if you could really go about it that way...it would be nice if one of the Formula D drivers could make some comments about this.

[brainfood]

I am too lazy to read this whole thing, I think that the lead driver should try to pull away and the chaser should try to upset the lead driver by sticking their nose in. But trapping does happen, J.R.'s wasnt as noticable and might not have been what he was trying to do in the Chicago footage?! Dont know, but I believe it was Dai at Long Beach that did it to Reese on the hairpin and its a tactic that has been used for sometime, not just american drivers. Ueo used to in his '86 quite a bit I think the year that he won d1 or almost won d1 he did it alot. IF you watch videos from back in the day 2-4 yrs ago he uses this tactic slowing down with more angle forcing the charging rear driver to spin to avoid hitting him.

[hatebbobbarker]

yeah dai did it to rhys at long beach, but thats cool because rhys does it anytime his car doesnt fly away at the start.

[Mr.Two]

Personally I think "trapping" can be an awesome thing in some situations. If anyone remembers GT Live from a few years ago they might also remember a battle between Rhys and Immamura. Immamura had the lead on the first run and outran Ryhs at 2nd clipping point and then Ryhs pushed to hard to catch up and spun. The 2nd run Immamura was on Ryhs and closing in fast at the 2nd clipping point as Ryhs brake checked him causing him to spin. Really is was a brilliant move on Ryhs part but what was even more awesome is that Immamura saw what had happened and on his 2nd following run he hung back enough so that when Ryhs did it again it didnt cause another spin. In all, I think it for the most part should be left out, in my opinion its utter *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* to drive to make the other person mess up instead of driving your heart and and seeing who comes out on top. Oh well thats just my view on it all

[MonkeySlide]

Well when you think about it...when you're the one in front..all you can really do is to pull away as much as you can and hope the other guy messes up or can't get his nose in.

Without brake checking there really isn't a lot you can do when you're in the front so I can see why they do it.

The fact that it hasn't been made illegal yet probably means that its something that is generally accepted by the drivers and judges.

Come on we all know how Alex P. is...if anyone would have something to say about it, it would have been him..and he'd make sure it was against the rules if he didn't like it..but he hasn't so hes probably accepting of it too.

This is all here-say though..so big ALERT to anyone from Formula D who can comment on this!

[Octagon]

I disagree fully that it's a despicable technique. Personally, I love the hell out of it and unless we get some courses that allow multiple approaches to the clipping point that allow different cars to make full use of their advantages (honestly, Road Atlanta has been the only course on the calendar so far that was really competition worthy) then we'll have this situation.

I mean, honestly, these rinky-dink hairpins like at Long Beach and Chicago are PAINFUL to the sport, moreso than any winning strategy. All they cause is a slow approach that allows for the "Brake checking/following too closely" argument to occur.

More open courses, more connected corners, fewer hairpins and braking zones, and the problem will disappear naturally. It'll become a tactic that costs the driver something (namely speed and line) in the judging. So it'd be used sparingly.

[my 1 88 u]

the only time I've notice break checking in D1GP is Sugo 2005 when Kazama kept screwing with the speed of the following driver into turn one. The only example I can find of "Trapping" is on a track such as Ebisu when the lead car takes a wide line to entice the following car to take the inside line for a pass, then closes the door on them at the apex causing them to lose drift, spin, or hit your door.

brake checking= cheap shot
trapping= great move

[MonkeySlide]

The only example I can find of "Trapping" is on a track such as Ebisu when the lead car takes a wide line to entice the following car to take the inside line for a pass, then closes the door on them at the apex causing them to lose drift, spin, or hit your door.

If thats what "Trapping" is then there is way more than just one example of that.

Back when Taniguchi was running his red S15 he did that in almost ALL of his tandem runs at Irwindale

Either way Brake Checking or Trapping...the principal is still the same..disturb the person behind you to mess up their line or keep their nose off you.

I dont get how one can be "better" than the other...its just two different ways of doing the same thing.

[my 1 88 u]

If thats what "Trapping" is then there is way more than just one example of that.

Back when Taniguchi was running his red S15 he did that in almost ALL of his tandem runs at Irwindale

Yes Taniguchi did use that technique alot and it was beautiful everytime, I just couldn't think of any other examples when I typed the post.

Either way Brake Checking or Trapping...the principal is still the same..disturb the person behind you to mess up their line or keep their nose off you.

I dont get how one can be "better" than the other...its just two different ways of doing the same thing.

"Brake Checking" and "Trapping (closing the door on a pass)" are not same principle. In brake checking the lead driver sacrafices one of the criteria in which the driver is judged on, speed, while closing the door on a pass does not.