FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[courantcom]

Yeah I dunno the answer to those and I think that's a major fault in the rule book.

Things should be much more clear cut and transparent in their definition.

Like I've said... a driver's organization would be a great place to bring up such issues. Nothing is going to get done over an internet forum.

I get entertained when I read OldSkool510's responses from time to time. He responds to your thread agreeing with you and then says that the other bigger named drivers are too smart to take a stand against the hand that feeds them, which is all done through the courtesy of FORMULA D. He then goes and suggests that we all go and think about it because all this is threatening their livelihoods too...

Okay, so with what he agreed with (driver's organization), and to what he said...I can't help but get a little lost.

A driver's organziation is only going to be strong if a single voice can be produced from it all. Some drivers have chimed in on this thread and put in their two cents, but have long since been forgotten. I know for a fact that other drivers share strong feelings about this thread, but they will not step out of their shells because it's just better for them to stay out of it because they think that Formula D is going to unleash their wrath on them too.

Think about it, and I've also said this before time and time again. THIS IS HOW IT GOES:

Maybe now you will understand with utmost clarity. ALL OF THESE events mean NOTHING without the racers.
1)The RACERS bring everything.
2)The sanctioning body assembles all the racers together so that a show can be produced.
3)The audience comes because of the RACERS
4)Sponsors and vendors come because of the audience.

Answer these questions for me...WHO builds the race cars? WHO paid for the race cars? WHO pays them to build race cars? WHO physically brings their cars to the events? WHO do they race for? WHAT do the teams race for? Did you answer any of those questions with "Formula D"?

Racers --> Sanctioning Body --> Spectators --> Sponsors --> Racers. That's the circle of life for motorsports. You build a race car and find a series to race it in that can bring in the spectators. The sanctioning body brings in the spectators depending upon the racers that compete in their series. Sponsors then come into play when they find out that a ton of spectators come to a particular event. Sponsors then go and put their names on the race cars. OMG! So....the most critical leg of all this are the RACERS. The RACERS are the ones that start everything.

[courantcom]

So they are in the top 10 with an illegal car and you don't think they should be penalized because they aren't winning outright?

As for the other cars in question.. they are not legal by my eye, but they have petitioned FD to allow the modifications and for whatever reason they have gotten the go-ahead. Can you stop that?

Did they? Are you certain that they have petitioned FD to allow the modifications and have gotten the go-ahead? Is this on a list somewhere where I can read? Does Formula D even have such a list? Do you see where we have all come to? This isn't all about SA Drift anymore man, and it honestly hasn't been for quite some time now. It's about how there are inconsistencies with Formula D's rules and regulations, and how they go about enforcing their rules.

It's obvious that their rules need a little help, and this thread has highlighted it. You have already agreed...a lot of other people have agreed. SUGGESTIONS in this thread were even made. VTS SHEETS

So...with all that said and done, again, this ISN'T about SA Drift anymore. It took a situation like SA Drift's predicament to bring out THE REAL issue here. The issue we have here are Formula D's rules, and how they choose to enforce them.

The best thing to do is a Driver's Organization (NOT A UNION) and also a Team Organization. FD is a separate entity and each organization can adress issues that they have and present them to FD.

[OldSkool510]

You're probably thinking this right now, and that is that SA Drift did not seek pre-approval. Alright...that's been said a lot of times here too! Help us all with an answer to the question of whether or not SA Drift would have been granted pre-approval had they asked PRIOR to competing. If you believe the answer is "yes", then why can't they be approved NOW.

Even if they wanted to "pre-approve" it NOW, you probably messed up any chance of that happening. The way I see it is - you questioned FORMULA D's manhood in front of everyone. Like I stated before, I really don't think FORMULA D will regress from their current stance and show weakness.

Like I stated earlier, too, I want to see the Skyline run and represent for the imports. The proliferation of domestic cars in drifting on the professional level is another topic that needs to be discussed on another thread. I miss the imports.

If this thread honestly threatens the livelihoods of everyone, then maybe you should begin to question the strength of the sanctioning body that this single internet forum thread contests. Let me give you an example. Do you think a single internet thread could challenge SCCA? ...or do you think SCCA's rules and regulations are strong enough to defend the fabric of their foundation.

I said many of the drivers/teams that are profitable in FORMULA D will not take a stand either way on this matter in order to protect their own interests. They won't go against the hand that feeds them publicly, like in the manner you did.

It appears FORMULA D's "rules and regulations are strong enough to defend the fabric of their foundation." Their standing firm with their decision aren't they?

I understand your position and respect it 100%. It's just the approach you chose to take in order to air your grievance. As a man, you know you can never question another man's manhood and expect him to back down.

[OldSkool510]

I get entertained when I read OldSkool510's responses from time to time. He responds to your thread agreeing with you and then says that the other bigger named drivers are too smart to take a stand against the hand that feeds them, which is all done through the courtesy of FORMULA D. He then goes and suggests that we all go and think about it because all this is threatening their livelihoods too...

Okay, so with what he agreed with (driver's organization), and to what he said...I can't help but get a little lost.

A driver's organziation is only going to be strong if a single voice can be produced from it all. Some drivers have chimed in on this thread and put in their two cents, but have long since been forgotten. I know for a fact that other drivers share strong feelings about this thread, but they will not step out of their shells because it's just better for them to stay out of it because they think that Formula D is going to unleash their wrath on them too.

I'm showing you how unbiased I am towards this whole matter by agreeing with a driver's union. Yeah, a drivers union would probably benefit everyone in the sense that drivers/teams would be able to air their concerns and grievances with FORMULA D to FORMULA D in order to improve and further advance drifting as a whole. It's still majority rules with unions, isn't it?

By the other drivers staying out of this, doesn't that tell you something? They, too, probably know you crossed the lines by challenging FORMULA D publicly that's why they're staying out of this.

[deadpirate]

Like I stated earlier, too, I want to see the Skyline run and represent for the imports. The proliferation of domestic cars in drifting on the professional level is another topic that needs to be discussed on another thread. I miss the imports.

a mustang, a viper, a gto, 2 soltices, a sky, a corvette, and a scion

what are the rest??
IMPORTS
nissan, mazda, honda, toyota

all imports!!!!!

[courantcom]

Even if they wanted to "pre-approve" it NOW, you probably messed up any chance of that happening. The way I see it is - you questioned FORMULA D's manhood in front of everyone. Like I stated before, I really don't think FORMULA D will regress from their current stance and show weakness.

If Formula D was truly a professional sanctioning body in which I still honestly believe that they are, then this type of thing shouldn't be able to sway their decision if they want to do what they feel is right. Now, that shouldn't even matter if their decisions have been reconsidered as a result of this thread's discussions or not. If questioning their "manhood" in front of everyone will cause them to lash back with a "power-trip", then that will reflect upon their level of professionalism. Agree or disagree?

Like I stated earlier, too, I want to see the Skyline run and represent for the imports. The proliferation of domestic cars in drifting on the professional level is another topic that needs to be discussed on another thread. I miss the imports.

I like the fact that there are domestic cars in the field. I like the fact that all the cars are different. This is what makes it cool when drifting comes to America. I wanna see American cars against Japanese cars against European cars, against even Pacific Rim cars (Korea). Do you remember a long time ago when Frank Choi held the first ever Battle of the Imports? Honestly...it was Mustang GT vs. Civic...Camaro vs. Starion. American products vs. Japanese products.

I said many of the drivers/teams that are profitable in FORMULA D will not take a stand either way on this matter in order to protect their own interests. They won't go against the hand that feeds them publicly, like in the manner you did.

I think they would, if they were the ones being singled out... The decision dealing with SA Drift has already been done. It's been done six days prior to this thread even starting. When SA Drift approached Formula D asking them "why", Formula D did NOT respond.

It appears FORMULA D's "rules and regulations are strong enough to defend the fabric of their foundation." Their standing firm with their decision aren't they?

I understand your position and respect it 100%. It's just the approach you chose to take in order to air your grievance. As a man, you know you can never question another man's manhood and expect him to back down.

As a man, I will stand up and admit if I was wrong, and be aware of any consequence that may result in. As a man, I will be open to suggestion, espeically since I am man enough to know that I may not know everything. Maybe your definitions of a "man" is that of an "alpha-male", and that means that you just decide because you think you're right -- even if you're not.

[courantcom]

I'm showing you how unbiased I am towards this whole matter by agreeing with a driver's union. Yeah, a drivers union would probably benefit everyone in the sense that drivers/teams would be able to air their concerns and grievances with FORMULA D to FORMULA D in order to improve and further advance drifting as a whole. It's still majority rules with unions, isn't it?

You're not showing me how unbiased you are. You're showing me that you're confused. When UPS went on strike, who did their unions turn to? They turned to the mass media and voiced their grievances. They didn't quietly pick up the phone and talk to UPS executives.

When the Los Angeles Unified School District teachers were threatening to go on strike, it was all over the news. They went on the news saying that something is wrong, and they want it dealt with. When NOTHING was done, they went on strike...again, spreading their grievances to the public.

The strongest unions that we have today have their strongest channels and muscle because they aliance themselves with the public -- either through television, newspapers, or magazines. They spread their grievances to all ends of the earth.

Are you trying to tell me that when workers go on strike, it's just a big waste of their time? Aren't the people that are going on strike also "biting the hand that feeds them"? I mean...they're going on strike against the people that sign their paychecks. I guess all that isn't something like how this thread is discussing things.

For drifting, there is no union. The voices of drifting are just as gray as the rules of Formula D. Perhaps soon, after everyone has read my words, the drivers will realize that THEY are the ones that have the control. Formula D is just organizing everyone's efforts so that they can put together a show. When it all comes down to it, it's a money thing. It's always a money thing -- but that's a whole different discussion all together. For now, let's just keep it at this. Formula D's rules (you like to call it manhood), have been challenged. An explanation has been requested, but has not been issued. This discussion will keep going and going and going until the air becomes clear.

By the other drivers staying out of this, doesn't that tell you something? They, too, probably know you crossed the lines by challenging FORMULA D publicly that's why they're staying out of this.

...then they should come on here, and express their opinions -- one by one. By them staying out of this, that just tells me that they don't want to be involved, and that professional drift drivers aren't ready to form a union as of yet.

There is something wrong with Formula D's rules and how they decide on what's fair and not fair. It has nothing to do with particular cars. It was only brought out because of a particular car and the people that stand behind them. This issue deals with EVERY car in the series to date, and possibly in the future.

A lot of people are losing sight of what the real issue is here. From what you see, Formula D keeps upholding their rules.

What I see is that they make stuff up along the way. They speak of an "appeal process"...a process that doesn't exist in their rule book. Who knows how that works, or how they want it to work. They come up with monetary fines out of thin air. It could be $250 now, $2500 later...$500 here, $100 there. Nothing is on paper. They speak of pre-approval and approvals, but yet nothing again is on paper. They spoke of a charity they contribute to...I asked them already what that charity is, and I have not gotten a response to that either.

All this has nothing to do with the SA Drift effort. All this was a result of things stirred up because of the decision made upon the SA Drift effort.

[tyndago]

Power to the People.

[manka4343]

Only if the big boys of drifting, you know the ones who are actually making money drifting,those with the big contracts with the major sponsors, step into this fray will anything get done. They're too smart to take a stand against the hand that feeds them, which is all done through the courtesy of FORMULA D. C'mon think about it guys, all this is threatening their livelihoods, too.

Someone actually makes a profit at this? who?

[tyndago]

Someone actually makes a profit at this? who?

In the fantasy world, in the fan's eyes, people make big money drifting. They own million dollar houses, Rolex's, and daily drive Ferraris. This is "professional" drifting right ? Just like F1.

Most guys are selling their souls to sponsors, and beg, borrowing, stealing everything else to make it out to the events.

[OldSkool510]

a mustang, a viper, a gto, 2 soltices, a sky, a corvette, and a scion

what are the rest??
IMPORTS
nissan, mazda, honda, toyota

all imports!!!!!

I'm talking about the way it was before, when they were all imports, like D1. I'm big into old school imports that's why I'm biased towards them. I'm just a big fan of drifting, regardless of who the sactioning body is. I also understand that this is about corporate America and the American way is always about $$$$. I miss all the 240's.

[OldSkool510]

In the fantasy world, in the fan's eyes, people make big money drifting. They own million dollar houses, Rolex's, and daily drive Ferraris. This is "professional" drifting right ? Just like F1.

Most guys are selling their souls to sponsors, and beg, borrowing, stealing everything else to make it out to the events.

Some teams are profitable because of the sponsorship money. That's where it's at. The lousy prize money for winning 1st place at an event barely pays for tires used on that weekend. Who said anything about comparing it to F1, where they have million dollar contracts.

[courantcom]

Someone actually makes a profit at this? who?

Yeah man...FORMULA $D does. Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with making a profit in what it is you are doing. There's nothing wrong with getting paid with what it is you do.

Nobody went out and made people drift. Nobody has to do this...but you know what, we all do -- by choice. So...instead of making it that much harder to be a part of it all, why can't working together just simply be a two way street? Formula D can voluntarily work with their racers just as much as their racers can work with Formula D.

This almost sounds like that if Formula D makes a mistake, does that give the racers the right to assess a penalty fee? ;-)

[cfrost]

I'm talking about the way it was before, when they were all imports, like D1. I'm big into old school imports that's why I'm biased towards them. I'm just a big fan of drifting, regardless of who the sactioning body is. I also understand that this is about corporate America and the American way is always about $$$$. I miss all the 240's.

D1 is a japanese series... those are domestics to them

[OldSkool510]

Racers --> Sanctioning Body --> Spectators --> Sponsors --> Racers. That's the circle of life for motorsports. You build a race car and find a series to race it in that can bring in the spectators. The sanctioning body brings in the spectators depending upon the racers that compete in their series. Sponsors then come into play when they find out that a ton of spectators come to a particular event. Sponsors then go and put their names on the race cars. OMG! So....the most critical leg of all this are the RACERS. The RACERS are the ones that start everything.

RACERS are the biggest part of motorsports. However, racers are "a dime a dozen." There are tons out there waiting for the opportunity to get in. The sactioning body will be the one to prevail. Just like professional sports, players get old and retire, but the league moves on with new younger players.