FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[OldSkool510]

You're not showing me how unbiased you are. You're showing me that you're confused. When UPS went on strike, who did their unions turn to? They turned to the mass media and voiced their grievances. They didn't quietly pick up the phone and talk to UPS executives.

When the Los Angeles Unified School District teachers were threatening to go on strike, it was all over the news. They went on the news saying that something is wrong, and they want it dealt with. When NOTHING was done, they went on strike...again, spreading their grievances to the public.

The strongest unions that we have today have their strongest channels and muscle because they aliance themselves with the public -- either through television, newspapers, or magazines. They spread their grievances to all ends of the earth.

Are you trying to tell me that when workers go on strike, it's just a big waste of their time? Aren't the people that are going on strike also "biting the hand that feeds them"? I mean...they're going on strike against the people that sign their paychecks. I guess all that isn't something like how this thread is discussing things.

For drifting, there is no union. The voices of drifting are just as gray as the rules of Formula D. Perhaps soon, after everyone has read my words, the drivers will realize that THEY are the ones that have the control. Formula D is just organizing everyone's efforts so that they can put together a show. When it all comes down to it, it's a money thing. It's always a money thing -- but that's a whole different discussion all together. For now, let's just keep it at this. Formula D's rules (you like to call it manhood), have been challenged. An explanation has been requested, but has not been issued. This discussion will keep going and going and going until the air becomes clear.

You're comparing the UPS strike and LAUSD strike to this post? They both had thousands and thousands of people supporting their cause and the public they were pleading their case to were people who had some sort of vested interest in the outcome.

I guarantee you that if you get at least one (1), only one, of the following six (6) guys (Millen, Foust, Forsberg, Yoshihara, Gittin, Hubinette) to publicly support you, your voice will be that much louder in the ears of FORMULA D.

[courantcom]

RACERS are the biggest part of motorsports. However, racers are "a dime a dozen." There are tons out there waiting for the opportunity to get in. The sactioning body will be the one to prevail. Just like professional sports, players get old and retire, but the league moves on with new younger players.

You confuse me. You criticize me for using UPS and the LAUSD strikes as an example to this post, and then you go and compare drifting to professional sports. You mention a league, so are you talking about things like Major League Baseball? You say things that both of my examples had thousands and thousands of people supporting their cause and the public they were pleading their case to were people who had some sort of vested interest in the outcome. Your very own example falls under your own line of criticism since there are probably "thousands and thousands of people" (if not tremendously more) following MLB.

[courantcom]

I guarantee you that if you get at least one (1), only one, of the following six (6) guys (Millen, Foust, Forsberg, Yoshihara, Gittin, Hubinette) to publicly support you, your voice will be that much louder in the ears of FORMULA D.

You are basically saying that these six drivers of yours have a stronger voice than ANY OTHER DRIVER in the series. Your SIX against 43 other registered drivers for the upcoming Las Vegas round. You wanna see what happens if only your six guys show up willing to race?

Besides, there may already be one or more of the six guys you have mentioned agreeing with the suggestions discussed in this thread. These suggestions should have a positive impact on professional drifting as a whole. These suggestions have been consistent throughout this entire thread.

1) Apply a FINE to SA Drift for them not being able to follow pre-approval procedures. Take away their qualifying points for the first 3 rounds they entered. Since nobody else seems to be singled out, I'm assuming they all received "pre-approval". Therefore, approve SA Drift as they are right now. That should put their team right up at speed with everyone else, and all this drama starts to come clean.

2) VTS Sheets for each car in the series. PUBLIC VTS sheets. No more secrets.

3) Rules Modifications
- Create an appeal process (there is not one now)
- Clarify rules that's still "gray" (lots of places)
- Provide authority for VTS Sheets
- Create monetary penalties

Did I miss anything? I'm sure nobody doubts the ability of the Formula D staff. This kind of thing shouldn't take the rest of this season to accomplish.

[courantcom]

Like I stated earlier, too, I want to see the Skyline run and represent for the imports. The proliferation of domestic cars in drifting on the professional level is another topic that needs to be discussed on another thread. I miss the imports.

Like I said earlier...your responses entertain me. You recently mentioned six drivers, that I'm pretty sure nobody will doubt that you're big fans of. You mentioned them because you said that if I have at least one of them on my side, that maybe Formula D will start to listen.

...of YOUR six selected drivers, only TWO of them drive an "import". Since it's the same car (350Z), let's just count them as one. So...the rest of them are behind the wheel of a domestic American product. I'm guessing that your "proliferation of domestic cars in drifting on the professional level is another topic that needs to be discussed on another thread" is implying that you're against seeing such brands on the grid?

Consistency man...consistency. Your practice of consistency here really mirrors the amount of consistency that Formula D practices when enforcing their rules. Maybe you're one of the Formula D fellas under disguise. ;-)

Anyways, that doesn't really matter. The suggestions I've made on this thread won't discriminate against any kind of car that shows up...no matter how radical, or how simple....no matter if they're from America, or Korea.

[courantcom]

I'm thinking... hmmm..what if they got would have took the car here before hand and got it pre approved. Was the pre approval a part of the tech day at autobahcs? Not all the teams showed up for that.

No, but the Scion showed up for that. It was a public day, and I went to it. The SA Drift car was still enroute from Japan at that time. Come to think of it, why DID the Scion have to show up for that especially since Formula D staff were always in fantastic contact with the group responsible for building that car from the ground up? It wasn't in "show mode". Since the Formula D staff were always in contact with that group the whole time, then why did it even have to show up for the pre-event tech day? That seems to highlight an inconsistency yet again... It leads me to believe that the Formula D staff really weren't in such great contact with them the whole entire time like they had said so themselves.

So that means, this car was teched on the seen at long beach where a lot of other never before seen cars were teched also. Why didnt they fail them on the spot and send them home to fix the problem? Were the techs stumped?

Nope...the techs weren't stumped. They said that they couldn't make a decision right then and there. I think they just wanted to see how the car would run before they would make a firmer decision. If the car didn't run right, then they probably would have just left it alone. ...but you know what? I did well. It made Top 16, but didn't advance, so at that time, everyone just left it alone -- including Formula D. Round 2 came...no buzz from anyone, including Formula D. SA Drift got 2nd place. oOOOOoo....everyone talking. Formula D didn't say anything to SA Drift then either. Round 3 came...and maybe lots "quiet time" between Formula D and other drivers before the event with regards to SA Drift. Still...some buzz around the paddock area, but no official word from Formula D. Official word came on June 23. I know...i know, I keep repeating myself, and telling the story again and again, but sheesh...there's still people on here that think that Formula D told SA Drift that their entry was illegal from the get go. That was NOT the case.

NOTE... these are questions not assumptions

I'm not really on the whole, "OMG FD CANT DO THIS" trip anymore. I'm more of why do they have to do this. I see a tube frame, I see 100% one off rack and pinion but this....

It didnt really give the team a real edge... they won some and lost some. It didnt fall apart on the track and catch fire (its safe). I just want a good reason why?

Lets just say, bergenholtz decided there double wishbone isn't working out. And asked Formula D if they can run lets just say a S14 front end setup. Real simple, something they are used to working on. Would they be denied?

We all know rules are rules, but if the rule isn't fair is it wrong to make a debate out of it and try to come to some sort of fair agreement?

Octane, thanks for the corrections.

But....DUDE OMG, I JUST LOVE TANNER, CANT WAIT TO WATCH TOP GEAR AND BUY MY AEM INTAKE!!! OMG!!!!FTP!!!!

Like I said before, I got my favorite teams and my favorite drivers just like anyone else.

Bandwagon yes sir I am

But I notice you arent nursing that solstice/sky thread anymore... what happened man??

[OldSkool510]

You confuse me. You criticize me for using UPS and the LAUSD strikes as an example to this post, and then you go and compare drifting to professional sports. You mention a league, so are you talking about things like Major League Baseball? You say things that both of my examples had thousands and thousands of people supporting their cause and the public they were pleading their case to were people who had some sort of vested interest in the outcome. It seems like your very own example falls under your own line of criticism since there are probably "thousands and thousands of people" (if not tremendously more) following MLB.

I know you're very passionate and adamant about your case, but you're putting a spin on everything that I have to say. I criticized you for using UPS and the LAUSD because they did have thousands and thousands of public supporters ready do what was necessary to prove their point, whether it was to strike or have "sick outs." Of course, using the media was the most logical route to use because of the number of people involved. All I'm saying is that if you had more public supporters on your side, you would be able to go much further with this issue.

I mentioned professional sports when I stated that racers were "a dime a dozen" and that there's many racers waiting to join the ranks of professional drifting. Since you brought up MLB, let's use that as an example regarding how the sanctioning body prevails. I'm in my 30's and have been a fan of the Dodgers since my childhood. I grew up watching Steve Garvey, Ron Cey, Davey Lopes, Dusty Baker, etc. Today, none of those guys are around, but the Dodgers are still the Dodgers, just with newer and younger players.

[OldSkool510]

You are basically saying that these six drivers of yours have a stronger voice than ANY OTHER DRIVER in the series. Your SIX against 43 other registered drivers for the upcoming Las Vegas round. You wanna see what happens if only your six guys show up willing to race?

Besides, there may already be one or more of the six guys you have mentioned agreeing with the suggestions discussed in this thread. These suggestions should have a positive impact on professional drifting as a whole. These suggestions have been consistent throughout this entire thread.

1) Apply a FINE to SA Drift for them not being able to follow pre-approval procedures. Take away their qualifying points for the first 3 rounds they entered. Since nobody else seems to be singled out, I'm assuming they all received "pre-approval". Therefore, approve SA Drift as they are right now. That should put their team right up at speed with everyone else, and all this drama starts to come clean.

2) VTS Sheets for each car in the series. PUBLIC VTS sheets. No more secrets.

3) Rules Modifications
- Create an appeal process (there is not one now)
- Clarify rules that's still "gray" (lots of places)
- Provide authority for VTS Sheets
- Create monetary penalties

Did I miss anything? I'm sure nobody doubts the ability of the Formula D staff. This kind of thing shouldn't take the rest of this season to accomplish.

What I'm saying is that the voice of those 6 drivers carry more weight than the voice of the others. Right now they're the big dogs of the drifting.

Since you like baseball, we'll use that again. Who will the owner of the Yankees listen to more? Derek Jeter and A-Rod or their back-up catcher?

The back-up catcher is just as much as part of the team, isn't he? His voice just doesn't carry the power that Jeter and A-Rod have.

That's all I'm saying man. Is get as many guys as you can of the 43, so you can approach FORMULA D with your suggestions and concerns. I'm sure they would be open to that if enough of you share the same concerns.

[OldSkool510]

Like I said earlier...your responses entertain me. You recently mentioned six drivers, that I'm pretty sure nobody will doubt that you're big fans of. You mentioned them because you said that if I have at least one of them on my side, that maybe Formula D will start to listen.

...of YOUR six selected drivers, only TWO of them drive an "import". Since it's the same car (350Z), let's just count them as one. So...the rest of them are behind the wheel of a domestic American product. I'm guessing that your "proliferation of domestic cars in drifting on the professional level is another topic that needs to be discussed on another thread" is implying that you're against seeing such brands on the grid?

Consistency man...consistency. Your practice of consistency here really mirrors the amount of consistency that Formula D practices when enforcing their rules. Maybe you're one of the Formula D fellas under disguise. ;-)

Anyways, that doesn't really matter. The suggestions I've made on this thread won't discriminate against any kind of car that shows up...no matter how radical, or how simple....no matter if they're from America, or Korea.

Here you go again putting a spin what I'm saying and completely misconstruing it. Man you're pretty good at that.

As I stated earlier, I'm a huge fan of drifting, regardless of the sanctioning body. I mentioned those six only because of their star power right now in the world of professional drifting.

As for the imports, I've tinkered with them all my life and love to see those run. I've never owned a domestic car in my like, hence, my bias towards imports in drifting. However, I do understand we are in America and understand the American way of making money.

Where am I being inconsistent? Simply put, personally, I just like imports more than domestics. That's all there is to it.

I have no choice but to try and learn to like domestic cars drifting, because American cars are now a major part of the drifting scene. It's either I don't go and miss out on some bad *Censored**Censored**Censored* drifting or do go and force myself to watch imports and domestics do some bad *Censored**Censored**Censored* drifting. I choose to go...

If I am a FORMULA DIAN as you claim, would I be dogging on the Domestics. I wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds me, would I? Considering the amounts of money these domestics are putting in my pocket. I would be pretty stupid to do that.

[courantcom]

What I'm saying is that the voice of those 6 drivers carry more weight than the voice of the others. Right now they're the big dogs of the drifting.

Since you like baseball, we'll use that again. Who will the owner of the Yankees listen to more? Derek Jeter and A-Rod or their back-up catcher?

The back-up catcher is just as much as part of the team, isn't he? His voice just doesn't carry the power that Jeter and A-Rod have.

I know what you are saying, and what you are trying to prove. You're telling me that certain people's words are worth more than others because of just who they are. What I'm trying to say is that if the owner of the Yankees was indeed fair and impartial, a member of the team is a member of the team, no matter what. Everyone's voice should be heard so as long as it's a valid point. A fantastic suggestion can come from someone a far, so as long as the right people are listening.

That's all I'm saying man. Is get as many guys as you can of the 43, so you can approach FORMULA D with your suggestions and concerns. I'm sure they would be open to that if enough of you share the same concerns.

Why would they be more open to that? ...because if I get more drivers involved with this than maybe something will happen? I was hoping that maybe we were dealing with more civilized people with perhaps the capabilities of knowing a good thing when they see it no matter who brings it up.

Well, since it was mentioned here also, I might as well bring it up again. Since a lot of drivers aren't identifying themselves, and voicing their opinions, I'm just going to start thinking that they aren't quite ready to band together to form such a unanimous voice. I know for a fact that they are reading...and maybe are afraid that they will be hammered down if they are seen as the nail that's standing out.

Maybe later, more drivers will be more willing to step forward. Maybe they're watching how all this goes to see if whether or not they feel that someone can make such a difference. Either way, people are reading. When this post was a week old, there were over 10,000 views.

I'm not trying to contribute to this discussion to stage a protest, or to form a union. If a union come about of all this, then I'll be happy it did. Everyone should be happy as well, including Formula D. I'm here volunteering myself and contributing to this discussion because I strongly feel that all this is for the greater good despite the fact that you think that my actions do more harm than good.

I consider this public forum more of an open panel to see who or who doesn't really care. The people that have read this thread and care have voiced their opinions. The ones that have read this thread and have said nothing simply care less. Not that they don't care at all, just maybe not enough? People involved with drifting at any level should care, and should come forward to voice their opinions. You can never really tell sometimes when there's a gem hidden in big pile of rocks. That means that even the softest of all voices may be just someone that speaks softly but carries a big stick.

Since it has been mentioned that this form of motorsports is still "new" to America, then it should still have its fair share of growing pains. Nobody said that all this was going to be easy, and if it was really all that easy, then everyone should be out forming their own sanctioning bodies here and there. People have tried and we all know they have. Formula D was the only one to endure. Whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing, time will only tell. Either way, it's pretty much the only thing left that has a series that spans both the east and west coast of the Unites States.

Just to clarify a few things, D1 didn't die because their drivers were pissed off. D1 didn't die because their fans were annoyed. D1 didn't die. D1 just left USA. I bring up D1 because it would have been another series that would be an attractive enough sanctioning body that would have the potential to honestly run with Formula D. It would give drivers choices, and when there are choices, people end up with the ability to choose. I wonder sometimes how significant it would be if D1 were to come back... Victory, after all, passes back and forth between men.

The racers in Formula D are too much at the mercy of a sanctioning body that operates under rules and practices that need a serious makeover. Granted that there are quite a few competitors that have yet to be scrutinized, the ones that have are done so inconsistently. The rest of the racers should have a right to know with what's going on, especially if they have chosen to dedicate a good chunk of their lives and fortunes in it all.

I see nothing wrong with the suggestions we have all been making here time and time again. If there is nothing wrong with these suggestions, then perhaps they should be followed. These suggestions would better establish drifting into the world of professional level motorsports.

[courantcom]

Power to the People.

Sounds like you want a democracy. Seems like what we are dealing with here is a dictatorship.

[OldSkool510]

I know what you are saying, and what you are trying to prove. You're telling me that certain people's words are worth more than others because of just who they are. What I'm trying to say is that if the owner of the Yankees was indeed fair and impartial, a member of the team is a member of the team, no matter what. Everyone's voice should be heard so as long as it's a valid point. A fantastic suggestion can come from someone a far, so as long as the right people are listening.



Why would they be more open to that? ...because if I get more drivers involved with this than maybe something will happen? I was hoping that maybe we were dealing with more civilized people with perhaps the capabilities of knowing a good thing when they see it no matter who brings it up.

Well, since it was mentioned here also, I might as well bring it up again. Since a lot of drivers aren't identifying themselves, and voicing their opinions, I'm just going to start thinking that they aren't quite ready to band together to form such a unanimous voice. I know for a fact that they are reading...and maybe are afraid that they will be hammered down if they are seen as the nail that's standing out.

Maybe later, more drivers will be more willing to step forward. Maybe they're watching how all this goes to see if whether or not they feel that someone can make such a difference. Either way, people are reading. When this post was a week old, there were over 10,000 views.

I'm not trying to contribute to this discussion to stage a protest, or to form a union. If a union come about of all this, then I'll be happy it did. Everyone should be happy as well, including Formula D. I'm here volunteering myself and contributing to this discussion because I strongly feel that all this is for the greater good despite the fact that you think that my actions do more harm than good.

I consider this public forum more of an open panel to see who or who doesn't really care. The people that have read this thread and care have voiced their opinions. The ones that have read this thread and have said nothing simply care less. Not that they don't care at all, just maybe not enough? People involved with drifting at any level should care, and should come forward to voice their opinions. You can never really tell sometimes when there's a gem hidden in big pile of rocks. That means that even the softest of all voices may be just someone that speaks softly but carries a big stick.

Since it has been mentioned that this form of motorsports is still "new" to America, then it should still have its fair share of growing pains. Nobody said that all this was going to be easy, and if it was really all that easy, then everyone should be out forming their own sanctioning bodies here and there. People have tried and we all know they have. Formula D was the only one to endure. Whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing, time will only tell. Either way, it's pretty much the only thing left that has a series that spans both the east and west coast of the Unites States.

Just to clarify a few things, D1 didn't die because their drivers were pissed off. D1 didn't die because their fans were annoyed. D1 didn't die. D1 just left USA. I bring up D1 because it would have been another series that would be an attractive enough sanctioning body that would have the potential to honestly run with Formula D. It would give drivers choices, and when there are choices, people end up with the ability to choose. I wonder sometimes how significant it would be if D1 were to come back... Victory, after all, passes back and forth between men.

The racers in Formula D are too much at the mercy of a sanctioning body that operates under rules and practices that need a serious makeover. Granted that there are quite a few competitors that have yet to be scrutinized, the ones that have are done so inconsistently. The rest of the racers should have a right to know with what's going on, especially if they have chosen to dedicate a good chunk of their lives and fortunes in it all.

I see nothing wrong with the suggestions we have all been making here time and time again. If there is nothing wrong with these suggestions, then perhaps they should be followed. These suggestions would better establish drifting into the world of professional level motorsports.

Well said. I really do think you're causing enough waves to get something done in the future, not too near, however, because then it would look like you were successful with your cause and I'm sure you know what I mean about that.

I'm sure there are many drivers with similar concerns regarding the rules and regulations or the non-existence of them. I'm sure you understand why the other drivers won't publicly support you right now though, right?

I think you're wrong about drivers not ready to band together and create some form of unanimous voice, though. Just because they didn't put their 2 cents in publicly doesn't mean they won't under different circumstances in the future. They had their backs against the wall. This thread became too heated for them to take a stand either way.

Your suggestions are valid. Keep in mind, though, suggestions are still only suggestions. It's still up to the sanctioning party to decide whether or not to apply those suggestions.That's why you need to go out there and get more supporters and bring these concerns to FORMULA D. Just take a more subtle approach next time. I don't think are as unreasonable as you say they are. If they thought it would further advance drifting as a motorsport and it would create a more even playing field, I'm hopeful they would consider it.

As I said before, the SA Skyline belongs out there with the big boys. You guys are one of the OG's of drifting.

[courantcom]

Well said. I really do think you're causing enough waves to get something done in the future, not too near, however, because then it would look like you were successful with your cause and I'm sure you know what I mean about that.

Montesquieu once said that the success of most things depends upon knowing how long it would take to succeed. I think you know what I'm really trying to accomplish with my "cause", and at this time, I know YOU are trying to do everything you can to eloquently swing things into the neutral. You see where I'm going with all this...and you know more people than you think see where I'm going with all this. Scary, isn't it. Success as you place it is not final with the way I place it. A failure at this point or at any point for that matter isn't fatal. It's all about the courage to continue that counts. The courage...

I'm sure there are many drivers with similar concerns regarding the rules and regulations or the non-existence of them. I'm sure you understand why the other drivers won't publicly support you right now though, right?

It's not honestly my place to conclude what the other drivers are saying when it's obvious that I talk to quite a handful of drivers, team owners, sponsors, and fanatics alike. You just don't know. You just like to openly say that "other drivers won't publicly support" me. All I have to say about that is just that you have no idea. But, seeming that you have a good amount of spin control yourself, I'd say that you DO have an idea, but you just don't want other people getting that idea put into their heads...

On top of all that, a lot of the drivers and teams should just be working on their own cars instead of indulging themselves over an internet forum at this time. There's always lots to do before a race.

I think you're wrong about drivers not ready to band together and create some form of unanimous voice, though. Just because they didn't put their 2 cents in publicly doesn't mean they won't under different circumstances in the future. They had their backs against the wall. This thread became too heated for them to take a stand either way.

Formula D is essentially a monopoly at this time. Either racers race, or they don't. Knowing the side of a racer as well, I can say that a racer would always rather race than not race. With the cards that are currently being dealt, you might as well just race and make $ure that thing$ like a $anctioning body $tay$ out of your way, or just stay quiet and let the storm pass. At this time, there's no where else a racer can go to stretch their legs. To be honest with you, if they had an option to go elsewhere, they would. (Did the $ signs get in the way? $ can be distracting sometimes, can't they...)

Your suggestions are valid. Keep in mind, though, suggestions are still only suggestions. It's still up to the sanctioning party to decide whether or not to apply those suggestions.That's why you need to go out there and get more supporters and bring these concerns to FORMULA D. Just take a more subtle approach next time. I don't think are as unreasonable as you say they are. If they thought it would further advance drifting as a motorsport and it would create a more even playing field, I'm hopeful they would consider it.

I can also bring these suggestions over to NOPI, or to D1 too...I know that they're also watching. D1 is watching through the eyes of SA Drift. NOPI is watching because to be honest with you, this thread has its own entertainment value. I've seen the kind of reason that people use over at Formula D. (Some of got spread all over the industry via eMail just because she thought I was trying to get her fired). I guess it's bad to back people up against a wall and then watch what they do. I guess she felt that she was backed into a wall. She just went public with it all and just start telling a lot of people.

You always try to apply a guiding hand over my opinions, and you do so yet again by suggesting that I take a more subtle approach next time. Next time? There shouldn't be another "next time". These issues should be fixed right here right now. If Formula D and everyone else thinks that the playing field is even enough right now, then there's no way that new racers would ever desire to associate themselves with Formula D in the future. You would be looking at the last generation of racers that will want to race with a sanctioning body that operates like a dictatorship. Racers will just use Formula D as a stepping stone just like how Formula D did to D1. It's cool....right?

I'm sure that at this point forward, rule enforcement by Formula D would be a lot more lenient now to avoid a repeat of what happened when SA Drift got backed into a wall. I know you heard that Orido is coming. He brought a D1 car along with him too, didn't he. WAIT! ...lemme guess, everything on that car must already be pre-approved, since it obviously was built with Formula D in mind. It was on display at the 2008 Auto Salon, and what? It's also here under the hospitality of Jim Gainer (3T Motorsport). I wouldn't wanna me$$ with that kind of customer. So...can Formula D tell me what pre-approvals were granted for that car?

As I said before, the SA Skyline belongs out there with the big boys. You guys are one of the OG's of drifting.

Okay then, leave it alone...you wouldn't wanna suggest that Formula D bites the hand that feeds them, would you?

You seem to be right there with me again putting a spin what I'm saying and completely spinning it back to your end of things. Just like you have mentioned about me, I can say that you're pretty good at that too.

You stated earlier, that you're a huge fan of drifting, regardless of the sanctioning body. I'm surprised that when I mentioned D1, you seemed to not have paid attention -- maybe on purpose.

[OldSkool510]

Montesquieu once said that the success of most things depends upon knowing how long it would take to succeed. I think you know what I'm really trying to accomplish with my "cause", and at this time, I know YOU are trying to do everything you can to eloquently swing things into the neutral. You see where I'm going with all this...and you know more people than you think see where I'm going with all this. Scary, isn't it. Success as you place it is not final with the way I place it. A failure at this point or at any point for that matter isn't fatal. It's all about the courage to continue that counts. The courage...

Montesquieu also stated "In a true state of nature, indeed, all men are born equal, but they cannot continue in this equality." This is in reply to your response about every little voice counting the same. In a perfect world it would, but not in our society. Those with more influence have a louder voice. All along I've been in support of your courage, haven't I?

It's not honestly my place to conclude what the other drivers are saying when it's obvious that I talk to quite a handful of drivers, team owners, sponsors, and fanatics alike. You just don't know. You just like to openly say that "other drivers won't publicly support" me. All I have to say about that is just that you have no idea. But, seeming that you have a good amount of spin control yourself, I'd say that you DO have an idea, but you just don't want other people getting that idea put into their heads...

What I do know is this - Has any other FORMULA D team come and publicly supported you yet? This is your battle, not theirs. I suggested to you the approach you should take next time in my previous posts, didn't I? Oh wait, like I previously stated, "suggestions are only suggestions" and now it's up to you to decide if you will apply my suggestion.

On top of all that, a lot of the drivers and teams should just be working on their own cars instead of indulging themselves over an internet forum at this time. There's always lots to do before a race.

Is that just an excuse? If so, shouldn't you being doing the same thing instead of indulging yourself over an internet forum.

Formula D is essentially a monopoly at this time. Either racers race, or they don't. Knowing the side of a racer as well, I can say that a racer would always rather race than not race. With the cards that are currently being dealt, you might as well just race and make $ure that thing$ like a $anctioning body $tay$ out of your way, or just stay quiet and let the storm pass. At this time, there's no where else a racer can go to stretch their legs. To be honest with you, if they had an option to go elsewhere, they would. (Did the $ signs get in the way? $ can be distracting sometimes, can't they...)

I agree with you wholeheartedly 100%. As the greatest ever philosopher, Puff Daddy said, "It's all about the Benjamins baby." FORMULA D is the monopoly right now and they're monopolizing the world of drifting like crazy. . They're the Major Leagues, and everything else is the minors or farm system. This is where all those aspiring drifters want to be. Regardless, it seems like your the only one being bullied by Formula D thus far. Everyone else seems to be getting along with Formula D and its rules, why can't you?

I can also bring these suggestions over to NOPI, or to D1 too...I know that they're also watching. D1 is watching through the eyes of SA Drift. NOPI is watching because to be honest with you, this thread has its own entertainment value. I've seen the kind of reason that people use over at Formula D. (Some of got spread all over the industry via eMail just because she thought I was trying to get her fired). I guess it's bad to back people up against a wall and then watch what they do. I guess she felt that she was backed into a wall. She just went public with it all and just start telling a lot of people.

You seem to be the voice of all the other possible drift sanctioning bodies. Were you nominated to represent them on the forums? Are they too scared to come out and speak for themselves or what? You're quoting my man Montesquieu, so you're probably the most educated person guy they have, but wait, you mentioned that you are the truck driver. hmmmmm. I have a post-graduate edumacation, so I know all about Montesquieu and his quotes. Did you throw that out there to show people that you're well versed in Philosophy, so that we would take you more seriously. C'mon man.

I can't respond about the girl being fired, because I don't know anthyng about that. I can say, though, is there you go again talking about things that
should be a private issue. Do you like doing laundry? Because you keep airing out other people's laundry.

You always try to apply a guiding hand over my opinions, and you do so yet again by suggesting that I take a more subtle approach next time. Next time? There shouldn't be another "next time". These issues should be fixed right here right now. If Formula D and everyone else thinks that the playing field is even enough right now, then there's no way that new racers would ever desire to associate themselves with Formula D in the future. You would be looking at the last generation of racers that will want to race with a sanctioning body that operates like a dictatorship. Racers will just use Formula D as a stepping stone just like how Formula D did to D1. It's

cool....right?

Like I stated before, this is FORMULA D's show. They run it as they see fit. Do you really think they would apply every suggestion that has been offered to them? I'm sure you're not the only one. I offered you my suggestion.

Where will future racers step to? There's nowhere else to go right now. They can quit racing entirely and start doing that new dance of "stepping." lol

Believe it or not, all governing bodies of any industry is a dicatorship. Let's talk baseball again. Did you know that the Major League Baseball dictates that all players must have their shirts tucked in when playing, they dictate that they all must wear hats on the field, they dictate that the must wear a helmet when batting, etc. Should I go on and on? .To anyone out there that works for someone else, you're being a dictated by a dictatorship. Believe it or not. Just abide by the rules and play ball.

I'm sure that at this point forward, rule enforcement by Formula D would be a lot more lenient now to avoid a repeat of what happened when SA Drift got backed into a wall. I know you heard that Orido is coming. He brought a D1 car along with him too, didn't he. WAIT! ...lemme guess, everything on that car must already be pre-approved, since it obviously was built with Formula D in mind. It was on display at the 2008 Auto Salon, and what? It's also here under the hospitality of Jim Gainer (3T Motorsport). I wouldn't wanna me$$ with that kind of customer. So...can Formula D tell me what pre-approvals were granted for that car?

They were smart. They followed the rules.

Okay then, leave it alone...you wouldn't wanna suggest that Formula D bites the hand that feeds them, would you?

You seem to be right there with me again putting a spin what I'm saying and completely spinning it back to your end of things. Just like you have mentioned about me, I can say that you're pretty good at that too.

You stated earlier, that you're a huge fan of drifting, regardless of the sanctioning body. I'm surprised that when I mentioned D1, you seemed to not have paid attention -- maybe on purpose.

You're so good at bringing things back up, I'm surpirsed you missed what I said earlier about D1. Look back and find it.

I even said I like D1 drifters more. It's just I thought Formula D had a better product for spectators than D1. Last November at D1, the crowd was pretty small compared to Formula D's event there. D1's vendor village was scarce in comparison to that of Formula D. As a fan, I want the most bang for my buck and Formula D provides that.

I thought D1 drifted back to Japan because a lack of sponsorships. I hope they come back soon. I will go to their event, too.

I would say more, but I gotta go make some Benjamins right now. See you later.

[MonkeySlide]

I think the time for talking here..is rapidly reaching a close. If anyone expects some changes to happen they need to start talking to the drivers to see how they feel about this and if they'll voice anything to Formula D.

Otherwise..

This is the song that never ends...yes it just goes on and on my friends...this is the song that never ends..

[courantcom]

I think the time for talking here..is rapidly reaching a close. If anyone expects some changes to happen they need to start talking to the drivers to see how they feel about this and if they'll voice anything to Formula D.

Otherwise..

This is the song that never ends...yes it just goes on and on my friends...this is the song that never ends..

I'm going to agree with you here more and more and just recap what's all been done and said. Comparing "manhood" sizes with OldSkool up there is just going to get old fast especially since we both have our own version of a ruler.

1) Formula D should have VTS sheets to maintain an undisputable level playing field.
2) SA Drift car SHOULD be penalized, but the penalty should fit the crime
3) Formula D needs to respond...