FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[olddrifter]

At this point I do not think its about converting it back its about fairness and a even playing field..... for EVERYONE...........

[courantcom]

My original question still stands...



If the C34 suspension isn't legal, how hard would it be for them to convert BACK to R34 suspensioN?

I already answered this...

[courantcom]

At this point I do not think its about converting it back its about fairness and a even playing field..... for EVERYONE...........

...so it's agreed? The fairness and an "even playing field" is now what is on the table.

[kidynomite]

So when are we just going to put all this car building aside and have drivers run around the track with as much money as they can and wheover has the most at the end wins. I think it would be cheaper and might get some more sponsors... But keep in mind one toe off the track is big deductions.

[tyndago]

Cough , Cough..... coil over Corvette. Yes thats the same basic design as the stock Corvette leaf springs.

I bet thats on the "pre-approved" list now that I might have pointed it out.

[olddrifter]

Here how to put this to bed!!!!
If you give anyone a chance to make any mods not in the rule book you make it available to eveyone by send out change to the rules to cover that exception and allow everyopne the same chance to take advantage of it.
If a rule is questioned make a ruling and inform "everyone" so they know why or why not.. allowing certian teams to make changes not available to everyone may make it look like favors are made when your not. If the TC is allowed tell everyone why and give them the same options for there new cars. State why and how to do it legally and what the same platform really means . if you need the manufactures statment or what ever make it a legal change tell everyone. If certain car can mod suppension to remove anti-squat the tell everyone what way is legal and what is not, do not keep it a from the other teams. If you can use spindle for another car to get more steering angle let everyone have the same change, keeping things on the down low makes it look wrong even when its not. If I can mod my fire wall for a better engine swap the everyone should have the same chance... I think FD is trying to do the best they can , but allowing changes for some and not sharing the info make it look bad. and appear to take sides when their not...???

[stedriftward]

I miss D1 I don't like American Hoochies and Gangsters! I have a feeling if FD keeps this up this will be their fan base Too many of those ghetto fools at FD events already! Kinda off the subject but I have seen a decline in the quality of people who come to FD events in the last two years.

[Bebop]

I miss D1 I don't like American Hoochies and Gangsters! I have a feeling if FD keeps this up this will be their fan base Too many of those ghetto fools at FD events already! Kinda off the subject but I have seen a decline in the quality of people who come to FD events in the last two years.

WTF is this?

this isn't about the people, people coming out too watch drifting is all positive no matter what background.

I really wish I could see what your talking about, but this is waaaay off topic.

[sa-drift.com]

http://www.drifting.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25213


The Team SA R34 has recently been deemed ineligible for the Formula DRIFT series in it's current state. The team has been accessed several fines, penalties, and faces possible removal from the series if the issues are not remedied.

The main issue stems from the vehicle's current OEM front strut suspension setup. The setup, being OEM, is in compliance with the Japanese version of the rulebook but apparently not with the English version according to the current interpretation. Despite the suspension setup remaining OEM and from the same chassis, Formula D currently has deemed it ineligible. The decision has come as quite a shock to many in the series as a decision to allow the Scion tC to compete in the series seemingly put to rest the same issue at the start of the season. The decision effectively made the chassis, not the model, the deciding factor in vehicle eligibility. (a decision we are very much in agreement with) Unfortunately, for Team SA, consistency with this ruling is not being seen, leaving many to wonder how level the playing field is when what applies to one vehicle, does not apply to another.

The other question that has been left unanswered at this point is why, if the model of the car is now the deciding factor instead of the chassis, the current OEM suspension setup on the R34 has not been allowed. Considering that it is using OEM parts and does not give the vehicle an unfair advantage, the question remains. We must also note that several other vehicles in the series have more drastic changes in suspension design. Are these suspension changes unapproved and deemed ineligible now as well? At this point, we cannot comment on the situation as we have more unanswered questions than answers.

Formula DRIFT has yet to respond to requests for a description of the appeal process to this decision, or a detailed list of previously given rule exemptions. We fear that neither exist, and the series is unprepared for this type of action. The lack of both puts several vehicles in the series in question. Formula DRIFT Chief Steward has already stated that "we have several other actions pending with other competitors," leaving us to wonder if they will be subject to the same fines and penalties.

Despite the rulebook's lack of a appeal process, or a list of previously allowed exemptions for specific vehicles, and TIME, Team SA is continuing to explore options to have this decision overturned, seeking a sense of consistency, balance and fairness to be restored to the series.

[MonkeySlide]

I think the main problem/issue here above everything else is that the current Formula D rule book is much too vague and gives Formula D way too much "unless we see fit" wiggle room which leaves them to change the rules on their whim.

This lends to those believing that this is done so that they play favorites to OEM and more "popular" teams.

When one looks at the rule book..even though the background is white and the text is black..there is way too much grey.

No legitimate motorsport short of lawnmower racing has sections of their rules come off so vaguely.

I whole heartedly believe that Drifting is a legitimate motorsport and I wholeheartedly believe that Formula D is a more than legitimate series.

It's obvious that their rules need to be revised in a more finite fashion to prevent the impression that they would play favorites.

It's sad that it took the disfranchisement of Team SA to bring this problem to light but hopefully this will mean that Formula D will remedy this situation so that it never happens again to any other team.

And hopefully they will eliminate any excuse for critics to attack the legitimacy of the series. Because trust me...the last thing drifting needs right now is for the critics to have more fuel. It's been almost a decade and drift enthusiasts are still trying to defend the "judged" aspect of the sport on forums all over the internet.

[courantcom]

I think the main problem/issue here above everything else is that the current Formula D rule book is much too vague and gives Formula D way too much "unless we see fit" wiggle room which leaves them to change the rules on their whim.

1.5.4 FORMULA DRIFT reserves the right to amend, or modify, the rules at any time (including individual series regulations and supplementary regulations) via Supplementary Regulations, Meetings, Tech Bulletins, Competitor Bulletins, Drift Competition Memos, or other medium.

They have a "rule" that allows them to already do anything. There's no real purpose to having a vague rule book unless they just never really got around to finish "writing" their own rule book. There comes a point when a vague rule book becomes an indicator of things that should or should not be mentioned at this point in time. Most of the people that have been closely following this thread already know what I mean without needing me to complete my thoughts already.

This lends to those believing that this is done so that they play favorites to OEM and more "popular" teams.

When one looks at the rule book..even though the background is white and the text is black..there is way too much grey.

No legitimate motorsport short of lawnmower racing has sections of their rules come off so vaguely.

I whole heartedly believe that Drifting is a legitimate motorsport and I wholeheartedly believe that Formula D is a more than legitimate series.

I whole heartedly agree as well. Despite how this thread may seem to be a bash fest, it honestly contains discussion materials that should be interpreted to benefit the growth of the sanctioning body and to ACKNOWLEDGE that their actions can also carry consequences that may put them in favorable or unfavorable light. (I can be vague too... ;-) )

It's obvious that their rules need to be revised in a more finite fashion to prevent the impression that they would play favorites.

It's sad that it took the disfranchisement of Team SA to bring this problem to light but hopefully this will mean that Formula D will remedy this situation so that it never happens again to any other team.

It's been 9 days since they have made their intentions clear to SA Drift (23rd). This thread was started on the 29th. 6 days went by when things could have been kept "quiet", and resolved. Nothing was done during that time...

And hopefully they will eliminate any excuse for critics to attack the legitimacy of the series. Because trust me...the last thing drifting needs right now is for the critics to have more fuel. It's been almost a decade and drift enthusiasts are still trying to defend the "judged" aspect of the sport on forums all over the internet.

There's a difference between a "critic", a concerned enthusiast, a competitor, etc. For the purpose of this entire discussion, I wish to be considered a concerned enthusiast...basically a voice of a spectator that wants to see professional drifting grow. Critics do nothing but provide negative criticism. Within this thread, I believe I have provided positive criticism as well along with others alike. There is no better fuel than another concerned enthusiast.

[courantcom]

Here how to put this to bed!!!!
If you give anyone a chance to make any mods not in the rule book you make it available to eveyone by send out change to the rules to cover that exception and allow everyopne the same chance to take advantage of it.
If a rule is questioned make a ruling and inform "everyone" so they know why or why not.. allowing certian teams to make changes not available to everyone may make it look like favors are made when your not. If the TC is allowed tell everyone why and give them the same options for there new cars. State why and how to do it legally and what the same platform really means . if you need the manufactures statment or what ever make it a legal change tell everyone. If certain car can mod suppension to remove anti-squat the tell everyone what way is legal and what is not, do not keep it a from the other teams. If you can use spindle for another car to get more steering angle let everyone have the same change, keeping things on the down low makes it look wrong even when its not. If I can mod my fire wall for a better engine swap the everyone should have the same chance... I think FD is trying to do the best they can , but allowing changes for some and not sharing the info make it look bad. and appear to take sides when their not...???

...sounds like VTS sheets. Sure VTS sheets will occupy more time and man power from a sanctioning body to create, organize, and distribute, but it will provide a reference to which each competitor can be scrutinized for cheating.

VTS sheets allows for specific allowances to be provided for EACH competitor to make their entry competitive in the field. This means that cars that aren't competitive enough can be granted more freedom to do more things, and cars that are "too competitive" restrictions. What this provides is a playing field full of different cars that can compete with one another. I've mentioned before that it's the job of the sanctioning body to provide a level playing field.

[MonkeySlide]

There's a difference between a "critic", a concerned enthusiast, a competitor, etc. For the purpose of this entire discussion, I wish to be considered a concerned enthusiast...basically a voice of a spectator that wants to see professional drifting grow. Critics do nothing but provide negative criticism. Within this thread, I believe I have provided positive criticism as well along with others alike. There is no better fuel than another concerned enthusiast.

When I said "critic" you are definitely NOT who I had in mind.

I meant all the people out there who are ignorant to drifting and therefore bash on it all the time.

You know the type.. the "Drifting isn't a sport its just ricers sliding cars around..I used to do the same thing in a dirt lot with my chevy back when I was in high school ..drifting is stupid blah blah blah" people.

Those are the "critics" I was refering to.

I don't want people like that to have another excuse to knock on drifting.

[courantcom]

Cough , Cough..... coil over Corvette. Yes thats the same basic design as the stock Corvette leaf springs.

I bet thats on the "pre-approved" list now that I might have pointed it out.

What? I thought Corvettes came with coil-over suspension right out of the factory. Penske 8700 series too, in fact. I was watching a video online http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008...-corvette.aspx listening to the modifications that are on the car. At about 28 seconds into it he says what it has. At a 1:45 he also tells us that there are MISSLES on it. ;-) haha! ...and finally at 1:50, he discloses yet something else that isn't found on a regular Corvette. Blah, the last two time snips are just for fun...

This video was filmed at Round 3 (Englishtown, NJ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkJ2CwOnW4k
The description of that one says "custom front/rear suspension setup".

Maybe because there is no difference since they are both "springs".

[courantcom]

You know the type.. the "Drifting isn't a sport its just ricers sliding cars around..I used to do the same thing in a dirt lot with my chevy back when I was in high school ..drifting is stupid blah blah blah" people.

When you're sittin' in a Chevy and you feel somethin' heavy... ;-)