Odd question regarding a transmission idea..

[MrHolister]

If this would be more appropriate in another section, please forgive me.

I was looking at turbo240.com tonight, and came across their adapter to use a Ford C4 auto tranny on a KA. I disregarded it for a moment, then thought about it for a second. My father in law has one in his modded ranchero, and manually shifts it all the time (ratchet shifter)...

This seems like it may be an option to all those auto 240sx guys as far as a middle ground for drifting. The adapter is expensive, but that's not the point,...I'm curious if it would feasibly work for drifting? I mean, you have control of the gears via the ratchet mechanism in the shifter, which to me seems like somewhat of a "poor man's sequential shifter" ...

Just curious if anyone drifts an old school car with one of these trannies, or has some experiance on the subject...

Thanks in advance..

[cfrost]

don't overcomplicate it.. it's a 240

I had the same tranny on my car for the past 3 years and that car saw nothing but drifting --and it finally just now gave

i'd say keep your nissan tranny

[Piner]

unless your drag racing nothing beats a real manual with a clutch. if your gonna spend the money on all that you might as well just swap in a Nissan manual.

[Bebop]

DONT

DO

IT

I really don't see the point unless your building a 8 second drag car

You want something tuff as nails and almost indestructible... grab a Z32 tranny

[MrHolister]

don't overcomplicate it.. it's a 240

I had the same tranny on my car for the past 3 years and that car saw nothing but drifting --and it finally just now gave

i'd say keep your nissan tranny

Too late, I've had 7 of them...lol

I'm not new to abusing them either, thus the question.

It's not at this point what would be the "easiest route", more something different that might have some advantages.

I've had 5 speed 240sx's
I've broken 240sx 5speeds
Z32 trannies are WAYYYYY over priced...

I was hoping someone might have useful info that had some experience...ie, drifting an old muscle car... (BTW, bubbadrift used an auto tranny in the Hell Camino).. Anyways, thanks for the info regardless..

[Bebop]

Too late, I've had 7 of them...lol

I'm not new to abusing them either, thus the question.

It's not at this point what would be the "easiest route", more something different that might have some advantages.

I've had 5 speed 240sx's
I've broken 240sx 5speeds
Z32 trannies are WAYYYYY over priced...

I was hoping someone might have useful info that had some experience...ie, drifting an old muscle car... (BTW, bubbadrift used an auto tranny in the Hell Camino).. Anyways, thanks for the info regardless..

200-400$ is too much?

Mike Peters if I remember correctly didn't really like his automatic much and so did a lot of the other drivers, complained he was too slow.


And plus KA trannys are hella cheap too, pop one... go to the junk yard grab another one for $150

By the time you go through all the trouble with getting a domestic auto tranny to fit. You could have bought like 3 spare KA trannys.

Funny there is a kinda similar thread like this going on at ZT.

How much power are you putting down, if your stock and breaking trannys... your not doing something right. If you are 200-350hp live with it.... this is drifting trannys break. If you are 350plus, might want to get a aftermarket built one or invest in a RB or a Z33 tranny.

[MrHolister]

200-400$ is too much?

Mike Peters if I remember correctly didn't really like his automatic much and so did a lot of the other drivers, complained he was too slow.


And plus KA trannys are hella cheap too, pop one... go to the junk yard grab another one for $150

By the time you go through all the trouble with getting a domestic auto tranny to fit. You could have bought like 3 spare KA trannys.

Funny there is a kinda similar thread like this going on at ZT.

How much power are you putting down, if your stock and breaking trannys... your not doing something right. If you are 200-350hp live with it.... this is drifting trannys break. If you are 350plus, might want to get a aftermarket built one or invest in a RB or a Z33 tranny.

RB25 trannies are basically Z32 trannies..

Z33 trannies are a pita to get to work on the KA..

ANyways,..like I said, I do understand where you all are coming from, and it is the logical outlet,... just curious about it from a hypothetical standpoint.
I actually have a 5 speed for this car sitting in storage.. just wanted some objective critisism for an admittedly odd idea...

[Bebop]

RB25 trannies are basically Z32 trannies..

Z33 trannies are a pita to get to work on the KA..

ANyways,..like I said, I do understand where you all are coming from, and it is the logical outlet,... just curious about it from a hypothetical standpoint.
I actually have a 5 speed for this car sitting in storage.. just wanted some objective critisism for an admittedly odd idea...

My bad didn't mean to mention Z33

RB and Z32 missions are basically the same, but they're are tons of wrecked Z32 sitting in the junk yards.

I wouldn't even think of any Z33 parts,

[markshatchi86]

c4s arent designed to be downshifted at high speeds, plus no clutch kick.

240s are the easiest 5spd conversion on the planet.

rip out all auto stuff related to the lever
install 5 spd trans
use OEM, cheap, line for master to slave ($20 from nissan), or make braided
the oem template cutouts for the master is on the firewall, drill it out, install master cyl. bleed
you dont even need a 5 spd pedal set, you can just cut the side of the auto brake pedal off and its all the same
install clutch pedal over master cyl
Jump the neutral lockout in the big square plug in the front fender by battery, done

you can seriously auto -> 5spd convert, including the trans swap in 4-5 hrs, or a day if you dont know what your doing

sr20 trans are stronger 1-2nd with better syncros

[eomund240]

I think I know of the tranny you speak of (A freind of mine in when I was in college had one like this).

There are 2 major underlying problems. First, lack of a clutch. With no clutch, you have zero control of your revs, causing downshifting to be rough and could very possible upset the weight shift. Clutch kicking to get an RPM boost is out as well.

Next is strength. Now I don't think it's a particularly week tranny, but it wasn't designed for that kind of punishment. Down shifting an auto tranny, while under a full throttle load is really hard on them. I personally know someone who knocked out his AT by doing something similar (not drifting, but driving a work truck around really rough).

And, besides, I think they make a paddle kit for the KA AT anyways.

I agree with cfrost, don't over complicate it. The standard manual is tried and true, and a very cheap and easy conversion.

[MrHolister]

I think I know of the tranny you speak of (A freind of mine in when I was in college had one like this).

There are 2 major underlying problems. First, lack of a clutch. With no clutch, you have zero control of your revs, causing downshifting to be rough and could very possible upset the weight shift. Clutch kicking to get an RPM boost is out as well.

Next is strength. Now I don't think it's a particularly week tranny, but it wasn't designed for that kind of punishment. Down shifting an auto tranny, while under a full throttle load is really hard on them. I personally know someone who knocked out his AT by doing something similar (not drifting, but driving a work truck around really rough).

And, besides, I think they make a paddle kit for the KA AT anyways.

I agree with cfrost, don't over complicate it. The standard manual is tried and true, and a very cheap and easy conversion.

Just FWI, a built C4 transmission is tougher than any nissan factory auto.. They are using one for a 700+hp drag 240sx..

Second , to the eaarlier posters... I HAVE PERSONALLY DONE 5 SPEED CONVERSIONS TO A 240sx!!!!

That was not the point. Saying what's easier doesn't add to the thread at all.

Now, the point about downshifting at high speeds. I talked to a transmission builder who works EXTENSIVEly with C4's, and he said that with proper valving, it should be fine. He saw no danger in it since those trannies can take a rediculous amount of launch pressure, as well as downshifting...ie, what they build for some of the old Fords that race SCCA...they have to downshift for the corners at high speed.

When using the C4 as a manual, which gear you select it stays in, so the comment about not controlling revs doesn't hold water, because it works essentially the same. No clutch kick? Big deal, I've drifted for some time now and never really use it. I feint and brake drift...pretty much exclusively...
If I were a clutch kicker, then this idea I admit would be pointless.

ANyhow, I appreciate the few of you who actually brought out technical points instead of just tell me what's easier...

[eomund240]

Just FWI, a built C4 transmission is tougher than any nissan factory auto.. They are using one for a 700+hp drag 240sx..

Second , to the eaarlier posters... I HAVE PERSONALLY DONE 5 SPEED CONVERSIONS TO A 240sx!!!!

That was not the point. Saying what's easier doesn't add to the thread at all.

Now, the point about downshifting at high speeds. I talked to a transmission builder who works EXTENSIVEly with C4's, and he said that with proper valving, it should be fine. He saw no danger in it since those trannies can take a rediculous amount of launch pressure, as well as downshifting...ie, what they build for some of the old Fords that race SCCA...they have to downshift for the corners at high speed.

When using the C4 as a manual, which gear you select it stays in, so the comment about not controlling revs doesn't hold water, because it works essentially the same. No clutch kick? Big deal, I've drifted for some time now and never really use it. I feint and brake drift...pretty much exclusively...
If I were a clutch kicker, then this idea I admit would be pointless.

ANyhow, I appreciate the few of you who actually brought out technical points instead of just tell me what's easier...

You never said built, you just said using a C4, which leaves us to believe you meant just bolting one up stock. And a stock A/T isn't really meant for that kind of abuse.

And I agree, it's an interesting idea, I just don't think it's very practical for drifting. What I meant about rev matching, is if you're going say 75mph in 4th, and you slam it into 3rd without picking up your revs, the rear tires are gonna want to lock up. I'm sure it's something you could get used to, but it has the potential of being pretty dangerous if you're not prepared for it.

One issue which just popped into my head is gearing. Is it possible to tune this tranny to the desired speeds? I really don't know myself, and I'm actually asking.

[cfrost]

how much power do you make?

[eomund240]

how much power do you make?

If you're talking to me, I have a stock KA. But power isn't what I'm getting at. You can have 40bhp and still ruin a tranny by slaming into a lower gear while under a load. Like I said, I know someone who's knocked out their transmission by slamming into gear like that. Granted, there was a little bit more weight behind it, but it's hard on it all the same.

[MrHolister]

You never said built, you just said using a C4, which leaves us to believe you meant just bolting one up stock. And a stock A/T isn't really meant for that kind of abuse.

And I agree, it's an interesting idea, I just don't think it's very practical for drifting. What I meant about rev matching, is if you're going say 75mph in 4th, and you slam it into 3rd without picking up your revs, the rear tires are gonna want to lock up. I'm sure it's something you could get used to, but it has the potential of being pretty dangerous if you're not prepared for it.

One issue which just popped into my head is gearing. Is it possible to tune this tranny to the desired speeds? I really don't know myself, and I'm actually asking.

To the first part,...I'm sorry I didn't specify the transmission being built.. but most C4's are to some degree... hard to find many that haven't had something done to them..lol,

Rev matching is pre-dtermined by the valving...ie,..if you drop the gear, it will try to go to the shift point where it is valved...(wish I could explain it better..sorry) So the issue you stated is about the same as downshifting a 5 speed at high revs... if you are rapping high rpms, then downshift, it will lock the drivetrain...in either instance..

Lastly, yes, you can do many things with how many, how tall, and what ratio the gears are in the C4.. (one of the reasons I had this idea...) Considering this, I'm sure that with a little time on the track, you could come up with an ideal gear set for each car.,,....

Again, just some food for thought.