XTREME DRIFT CIRCUIT, PRO-AM Series

[boxmod]

I just had a debate with a friend over V8 vs 'traditional' 4cyl/6cyl turbos in a drift car.

I told him there isn't really any reason to mod a 4cyl to the teeth to have it equal the performance of a V8 at medium/modest mod level. You cant be competitive on the high speed (high trq required) sections of courses, plain and simple.

I love technical over high speed, and D1 has a share of slower technical and then other high speed courses. We seem obsessed with speed here so much that its all 90mph+ entry with 2-3 clips after that.

Atlanta is a great venue because its got such a tight technical line to be on, and there is not as much of an advantage to major powered cars EXCEPT on the downhill/acceleration portion.

Either way, its all about fun for me and most drivers. The thrill is doing something that is crazy and nearly impossible with a car. i'd rather drive a new track every weekend that 7 high speed ones once a year. its all about variety for me.

[courantcom]

My main thing at this point is K rails, I might be alone when I say this but I'm sick and tired of watching cars get ripped too shreds hitting these things. It really puts a lag on events at times. I think K rails should be a last ditch effort to protect the spectators only. And organizers should really take some time to invest in something that can protect the integrity of the machines as well.

I don't know about you, but I love K-Rails...and concrete walls, trees, obstacles, etc. ;-)

[Bebop]

I just had a debate with a friend over V8 vs 'traditional' 4cyl/6cyl turbos in a drift car.

I told him there isn't really any reason to mod a 4cyl to the teeth to have it equal the performance of a V8 at medium/modest mod level. You cant be competitive on the high speed (high trq required) sections of courses, plain and simple.

I actually think V8s have the advantage on slower parts of a course compared to a 4 cylinder turbo. A nicely built SR20 and a mildly built LS1 both have a max torque of about 380. But a Ls1 can use it at such a low RPM. Its nice to be able to slow down and get back on the gas with vengeance without a whole bunch of rev matching.

I love technical over high speed, and D1 has a share of slower technical and then other high speed courses. We seem obsessed with speed here so much that its all 90mph+ entry with 2-3 clips after that.

Ha, the only technical course still existing in D1 is ebisu... and that course only has like 2 or 3 critical judging zone. But D1 got smart... your don't like the new Pro D1 series? You miss the old D1 tracks and grassroot style? Here you go world, D1 Street Legal... best of all you can compete in it too!!!

Look at D1s format.... they haven't been in the states in full form in 3 years, they have been totally out of europe, austraulia, nz, malaysia. But they still have the most exposure of their talent in the world. People still go out and buy option DVDs. And people are still watching them on the Internet (they need to figure out a way to start charging people).... and its entertaining. They found a format that halfway works and for some reason people fail to duplicate.

When D1 finally goes on TV live or pre recorded its just going to be a convenience for the fans. The foundation will already be there.

Atlanta is a great venue because its got such a tight technical line to be on, and there is not as much of an advantage to major powered cars EXCEPT on the downhill/acceleration portion.

LOL I drink to that... anyone remember Taka vs Sam back in 05 or 06. Taka in his NA corolla chasing Sam's butt all over the place... Took like 3 OMTs for taka to finally give up! Granted that was a long time ago and the sport was judged alot differently.... if only some of the judges back then did not make such stupid mistakes.

Either way, its all about fun for me and most drivers. The thrill is doing something that is crazy and nearly impossible with a car. I'd rather drive a new track every weekend that 7 high speed ones once a year. its all about variety for me.

Its all love and fun until money gets involved. IMAO, there's way too many drivers/team owners who don't care about the sport. They are happy because they are getting money now and will only make a suggestion to better their teams chances of wining. Like I said before in a previous thread, a good majority of fans who were here 4 or 5 years ago are not around anymore. And its not because they don't like drifting, they just got bored of FD and or miss D1.

The fan base in my eyes right now is temporary. Alot of Families, alot of really young kids. Alot of experimenters, fans of open wheel/nascar/road racing who just want to see what the hype is about (they are some of the more vocal). The company has to figure out a way to keep them coming back year after year. Give them some sort of real foundation to grasp on that keeps them coming back.... its just not there and doesn't seem to be coming.

One of these years ticket sales are going to drop, and key sponsors will start backing out (red bull is already gone), and the sport in the states will need to evolve. And I just hope they will be ready when this happens. It could be this year, it could be 5 years from now but its going to happen.

One of the things that irked me alot last year was the top 32 tandem. At first its like cool, now everyone can go head to head. But at the same time I had to admit that this would be really boring on TV....and we are only now half way through!!! That in my eyes in not progression.

The only reason why I'm posting this here right now is because I know the guys at XDC are reading and I just hope they are getting some hints. And if they capitalize on what the other series is doing wrong, they can have a real good thing going for them selves and the sport overall. There is nothing wrong with being the guinea pig series.

[Bebop]

I don't know about you, but I love K-Rails...and concrete walls, trees, obstacles, etc. ;-)

I'm a personaly fan of jumps my self... I just dont like things that leave me in the hot sun for 10 mins to an hour (unless you are there) with no action.

[Justin Banner]

I'm a personaly fan of jumps my self...

Speaking of, does the Pro-Am course at Phoenix still have the hump? Guys were getting air there at one time.

[conspire]

Speaking of, does the Pro-Am course at Phoenix still have the hump? Guys were getting air there at one time.

that wasn't Phoenix, it was Laughlin, NV and I'm not sure, that parking lot was trashed back then and we just barely scraped by having them pave only the track portion. the hump was from paving over a median to link two parking lots.

[Justin Banner]

that wasn't Phoenix, it was Laughlin, NV and I'm not sure, that parking lot was trashed back then and we just barely scraped by having them pave only the track portion. the hump was from paving over a median to link two parking lots.

That's right, it was Laughlin. Didn't know it was because of how it was paved, though. It was presented like as if it was always that way from the coverage (NOPI on Speed, if I remember right) it got.

[Bebop]

I think you two may be talking about 2 diferent jumps, because pro am was never on TV.

[B.Young]

Proam in Tucson, AZ Aug 2nd 08 had a shallow one in the first entry. That was a great night of drifting.

[boxmod]

I personally love top32 tandem. I think tandem is the only reason drifting is appealing to the general public. Single car is neat to see, but people love door to door.

I think if the TV show focused on comeptition and didn't 'skip' battles, it would be better. Of course you would need an hour show, and then do it like drag racing shows. Little background on driver A vs B (name/hometown/car) boom battle, and who won- next.

This years FD coverage had good angles on the cameras but the 'voice over announcer' kept re-summarizing everything before and after a commercial break. He also 'told' me how a battle went and totally skipped it. These guys didn't pour in blood/sweat/money into attending and qualifying for the event to get skipped. Its not a time crunch issue because later they would show a replay 2 times of another battle and interview drivers making one battle skipped and another almost 8 minutes of the show. The worst example was in Long Beach... they talked about a 2 car tandem battle and skipped it- then proceeded to talk about a battle where JR's competitor had car issues and couldn't run but they SHOW JR's SOLO RUN! Politics? Sponsor money? Treat everyone the same or your going to continue to lose sponsors for other drivers. Sure the series is healthy, but the driver count has dwindled from 50+ to low 30s now- FD needs more drivers. Worst part of it all.. shows over and I've seen only most of the Top 16 rounds? What the hell.... Tune in next week? wtf?

Wanna make stronger teams? Get more drivers on TV so sponsors feel its worthwhile. Do top 32 coverage, battles straight up, no BS'ing at some guys shop -maybe have stand alone 30 min episodes to feature the series leaders/standouts? Also, show me an entire event in one episode. If you were watching NASCAR on tv and at lap 300/500 they said "Tune in next week to see who takes the checkered flag here at Daytona" you would turn fans away so fast. Especially since we already have month+ delays for the show to air so we KNOW the winners... we just wanna see how it happened.

And please dont make it entirely obvious that the announcing was done after a race and always seems to be 'dead on' with the judges decision and straight up wrong sometimes. example there was FD Atlanta where Pat had to stop to not hit Joon and the announcers talking about how Pat did something wrong and lost the battle...Those of us there in real life know Pat won the battle and got DQ'd shortly after for the tire compound claim (which was later retracted after the event ended). Even if I wasn't there in person I woulda called a WTF on the notion that what Pat did was an error and not saving 2 potentially wrecked cars from Joon's real error.

The TV side of drifting is a big part of why its struggling to attract big sponsors IMO.


I'm kinda off topic i guess, but there is a lot that can be fixed with TV and I think that + more events per year, will help solidify drifting as a 'real motorsport'.

[Bebop]

I agree the sport needs to progress in its TV production alot.

But I feel and so do others that the top 32 format is not that good for TV and sponsorship exposure. Don't get me wrong, 2 long qualifying sessions isn't good for TV either. I have a ideas but I wont post them on here. Feel free anyone who wants to PM me about them. My ideas would make the sport not only be more appealing to all sponsors, but will help the sport be better broadcasted pre recorded or live. And it would actually bring some flat out endurance to the sport... more so like real racing.

[Bebop]

Proam in Tucson, AZ Aug 2nd 08 had a shallow one in the first entry. That was a great night of drifting.

oh the pro am qualifier....

[Justin Banner]

My ideas would make the sport not only be more appealing to all sponsors, but will help the sport be better broadcasted pre recorded or live. And it would actually bring some flat out endurance to the sport... more so like real racing.

Ok, now you have my full attention. Give me your idea and I'll see where I can go with it.

[Bebop]

PM sent, enjoy, judge, laugh, and criticize

[Justin Banner]

PM sent, enjoy, judge, laugh, and criticize

PM replied. Dude, it sounds awesome.