(FEEDBACK) Who should Judge Formula D?

[Hach1r0k1d03]

I initially just wanted to rant about the bad decision made for Gitten vs Kearney at Sonoma this weekend but then I wondered how everyone thinks about the judges at formula d.<br>
My main points are:
-should we have judges that, no offense but, aren’t really competitive drifters? I may be wrong but I don’t think any of the current judges have ever podiumed or maybe barely podiumed. <br>
-should we have judges that have pretty involved relationships with the competing drivers? It becomes a conflict of interest. I mean the Olympics arent judged by people who are buddies with the competitors.<br>
-an example of the above point being a problem is: isnt it very odd that ever since tony angelo started judging, now we seem to be looking at drift alliance winning the championship for the next several years? Might not be the best point cus chris and Vaughn are amazing drivers but come on.<br>
-seriously, what was up with the Gitten vs Kearney decision? After that battle, I was looking forward to a very exciting fight for the championship at irwindale but now I don’t even know if I want to go with judging like that.<br>

[Slapshotnerd]

I don't envy the judges.

If there's 40 competitors at the event, 39 of them are not going to be happy, and probably half of them are going to want to "talk" to you about that decision. When a majority of the people aren't in favor of your decisions, you face an uphill battle no matter what.

In skateboarding, the judges are kinda kept in the shadows. They don't discuss their decisions on camera or on the microphone, they aren't introduced, they are just assumed to be there and assumed to be "good" at what they do. Watch an X-games broadcast, or a Dew tour broadcast, or any other broadcast. You'll never see a video shot, interview, or introduction of any of the judges. I think it might be worth exploring this model further.

[Bebop]

In my opinion its not the judges that are the issue, but its the judging criteria. I don't want to sound like a broken record, so I wont write another long essay about it. Kearney vs JR is another point in case where the judges had the right call, but the judging criteria in it self has its flaws.

Good point about skateboarding slapshot, something else that should be looked into.

But if we had too pick another judge tomorrow though, I would go knocking on Calvin Wans door.

[Slapshotnerd]

Calvin Wan was a Falken driver for 5 years. I can't wait for people to scream "bias" on that one...

If Falken wins - "Oh, Calvin used to drive for them, he's just hooking his buddies up."

If Falken loses - "Oh, Calvin used to drive for them, he's just mad they gave him the boot."

You'll never win.

[J-Rod]

I really don't want to chime in here but a vantage point to this conversation about judging is....
Like anything judged there will be controversy, a clock doesnt lie and the finish line doesn't move... But drifting is unique and that's why I'm a fan of it, its action sports meets motorsports...

No offense but YOU as a drift fan will NEVER see exactly what the judge sees given from that vantage point, because you obviously cant get in his head.
It's a pressure filled, experience filled position...
The 3 current Formula Drift judges are drifters, all still drift have dedicated their lives to their passion and know how to drift, that's a fact...

What I can also add as far as some people thinking of unbiased judges meaning affiliation with, friendships and sponsors relationships, the drift community is FILLED with great friendships, relationships and ties to each other.
I always tout the comradery of the drift community is unlike any other, sure theres some battles, feelings hurt and competition on track but it's a community supporting the overall growth of the sport and alot of us have been banging away in the automotive world before drifting blew up and also been banging away at Formula Drift for 7 years, before some of you even knew it existed...

Just because the blatant affiliation of Drift Alliance is present of Tony Angelo being the founder do you really think Formula Drift as a scantioning body would let a "friendship" reign supreme and they would let that happen?

Also to what benefit does Formula Drift get if a Drift Alliance winner is crowned either at a round of competition or overall Championship?
The conspiracy theory is so ridiculous and contrived in peoples minds because well to be honest you have your favorite and you as a fan have your biased opinion which is entitled and is commendable because it means you care, you're a DRIFT FAN as are all of us in the Formula Drift world...

Formula Drift is NOT going anywhere, neither judging, said conspiracy theories, hatred, some calls you might not agree either are going to make Formula Drift go away...

We're here to stay, grow & I know for a fact that Formula Drift will listen to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism not hatred and far fetched concepts of biased and conspiracy.

Our expansion of Formula Drift is not slowing down so if you're a fan stand up get involved and cheer on, DON'T BEAT DOWN, it gets old!

These opinions and stance are those of my own and not of Formula Drift as an organization as I've been announcing and seen over the 7 YEARS of competition the ever present growth of Formula Drift and I think that we're ALWAYS striving to make a better experience for the fans, the sponsors and ultimately have it be fair, exciting and challenging for the drivers.

Thank you and I hope you can understand my stance on any and all topics...
Looking forward to seeing a lot of you at Irwindale and let's keep it positive because negativity is like cancer, it's infectious, bad, unhealthy and just ugly...

Don't HATE... Congratulate!

[Slapshotnerd]

For the record, I don't think there's a major problem with the judging. I would like to see them come to decisions faster (if you can't pick a winner within 10 seconds at the end of the 2 runs, then vote OMT), but beyond that, I think it's fine.

I brought up the skateboarding example as a counterpoint and food for thought, but I'm not necessarily saying that the difference is better or worse. Just a point of interest.

I'd like to see the point deductions in qualifying more finite. What's the difference between getting 7.1 points for "excitement" vs 6.5 points? This small difference can move you 3-5 qualifying positions. Examples from this weekend:

2 C. Forsberg 83.3
3 K. Mohan 83.3
4 R. Tuerck 83.2
5 D. Yoshihara 82.3

6 F. Aasbo 81.6
7 A. Pfeiffer 81.1
8 R. Petty 81.1
9 S. Hubinette 80.8

16 P. Mordaunt 74.4
17 T. Foust 74
18 T. Aono 74
19 K. Gushi 73.6

Can the judges identify WHY Forsberg's run was identical to Mohan's run on the score? Did 1 run deserve .1 or .2 points more (or less) style, so that we didn't have to go to the speed tiebreaker?

Was Mordaunt's run .4 points more stylish than Foust or Aono?

Having been a judge in a previous series, I know that sometimes judges can give arbitrary numbers. They might not be able to justify a 7.2-style run over a 7.1 or a 6.8 (or even a 5.5 point run). These numbers may be trivial to them, but that 1.0 point in qualifying is literally 6 championship points that Dai lost out on (4 points for qualifying 5th vs 10 points for qualifying 2nd). Remember, Tuerck lost the championship by exactly 6 points last year. I think that this element of judging needs a bit of refining, but is not "BROKEN" per say, and doesn't need any sort of personnel replacement to fix it, just a little more definition.

[Bebop]

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Looks like all the irish drifters except for Dmac are sounding off negative about this call. Damn, hope they resolve this.

[my 1 88 u]

Can we have passing already?

[Justin Banner]

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Looks like all the irish drifters except for Dmac are sounding off negative about this call. Damn, hope they resolve this.

Like I posted on Wrecked, from that Fan video, Kearny did stall out. To me, it really does look like Kearny comes to a near stop at the apex of the turn and JR hits him. Right or wrong on the hit, Kearny did stall out.

[Bebop]

Banner I agree 100%

I'm thinking too my self, if JR is at fault Kearney should have sold it... roll out in a cloud of smoke make it look like your about to roll back on the accelerator. Don't git hit and just sit there....

Can we have passing already?

Let me rephrase this... can we have a predetermined tandem line. Because obviously some of these drivers cant run there qualifying line on a safe and consistent basis. Qualifying lines more then half the time are not these drivers fastest lines.

As we all see now, in drifting speed saves not kills lol

[cossie78]

I really don't want to chime in here but a vantage point to this conversation about judging is....
Like anything judged there will be controversy, a clock doesnt lie and the finish line doesn't move... But drifting is unique and that's why I'm a fan of it, its action sports meets motorsports...

No offense but YOU as a drift fan will NEVER see exactly what the judge sees given from that vantage point, because you obviously cant get in his head.
It's a pressure filled, experience filled position...
The 3 current Formula Drift judges are drifters, all still drift have dedicated their lives to their passion and know how to drift, that's a fact...

What I can also add as far as some people thinking of unbiased judges meaning affiliation with, friendships and sponsors relationships, the drift community is FILLED with great friendships, relationships and ties to each other.
I always tout the comradery of the drift community is unlike any other, sure theres some battles, feelings hurt and competition on track but it's a community supporting the overall growth of the sport and alot of us have been banging away in the automotive world before drifting blew up and also been banging away at Formula Drift for 7 years, before some of you even knew it existed...

Just because the blatant affiliation of Drift Alliance is present of Tony Angelo being the founder do you really think Formula Drift as a scantioning body would let a "friendship" reign supreme and they would let that happen?

Also to what benefit does Formula Drift get if a Drift Alliance winner is crowned either at a round of competition or overall Championship?
The conspiracy theory is so ridiculous and contrived in peoples minds because well to be honest you have your favorite and you as a fan have your biased opinion which is entitled and is commendable because it means you care, you're a DRIFT FAN as are all of us in the Formula Drift world...

Formula Drift is NOT going anywhere, neither judging, said conspiracy theories, hatred, some calls you might not agree either are going to make Formula Drift go away...

We're here to stay, grow & I know for a fact that Formula Drift will listen to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism not hatred and far fetched concepts of biased and conspiracy.

Our expansion of Formula Drift is not slowing down so if you're a fan stand up get involved and cheer on, DON'T BEAT DOWN, it gets old!

These opinions and stance are those of my own and not of Formula Drift as an organization as I've been announcing and seen over the 7 YEARS of competition the ever present growth of Formula Drift and I think that we're ALWAYS striving to make a better experience for the fans, the sponsors and ultimately have it be fair, exciting and challenging for the drivers.

Thank you and I hope you can understand my stance on any and all topics...
Looking forward to seeing a lot of you at Irwindale and let's keep it positive because negativity is like cancer, it's infectious, bad, unhealthy and just ugly...

Don't HATE... Congratulate!

hello
what you said is true for the drift in general (I quoted your post on our forum)
I'm from France and we follow the formulad live on the internet
on our forum the same comments but looking more closely at the videos and we're drifter.
I personally think that JR had no choice stop carnage on the track trick or problem but it stops on the track

[Bebop]

I personally think that JR had no choice stop carnage on the track trick or problem but it stops on the track

Translation:

I personally think JR had no choice but to hit Kearney, brake check or a car problem regardless Kearney stalls on the track.

[Jonny Fonseca]

I really don't want to chime in here but a vantage point to this conversation about judging is....
Like anything judged there will be controversy, a clock doesnt lie and the finish line doesn't move... But drifting is unique and that's why I'm a fan of it, its action sports meets motorsports...

No offense but YOU as a drift fan will NEVER see exactly what the judge sees given from that vantage point, because you obviously cant get in his head.
It's a pressure filled, experience filled position...
The 3 current Formula Drift judges are drifters, all still drift have dedicated their lives to their passion and know how to drift, that's a fact...

What I can also add as far as some people thinking of unbiased judges meaning affiliation with, friendships and sponsors relationships, the drift community is FILLED with great friendships, relationships and ties to each other.
I always tout the comradery of the drift community is unlike any other, sure theres some battles, feelings hurt and competition on track but it's a community supporting the overall growth of the sport and alot of us have been banging away in the automotive world before drifting blew up and also been banging away at Formula Drift for 7 years, before some of you even knew it existed...

Just because the blatant affiliation of Drift Alliance is present of Tony Angelo being the founder do you really think Formula Drift as a scantioning body would let a "friendship" reign supreme and they would let that happen?

Also to what benefit does Formula Drift get if a Drift Alliance winner is crowned either at a round of competition or overall Championship?
The conspiracy theory is so ridiculous and contrived in peoples minds because well to be honest you have your favorite and you as a fan have your biased opinion which is entitled and is commendable because it means you care, you're a DRIFT FAN as are all of us in the Formula Drift world...

Formula Drift is NOT going anywhere, neither judging, said conspiracy theories, hatred, some calls you might not agree either are going to make Formula Drift go away...

We're here to stay, grow & I know for a fact that Formula Drift will listen to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism not hatred and far fetched concepts of biased and conspiracy.

Our expansion of Formula Drift is not slowing down so if you're a fan stand up get involved and cheer on, DON'T BEAT DOWN, it gets old!

These opinions and stance are those of my own and not of Formula Drift as an organization as I've been announcing and seen over the 7 YEARS of competition the ever present growth of Formula Drift and I think that we're ALWAYS striving to make a better experience for the fans, the sponsors and ultimately have it be fair, exciting and challenging for the drivers.

Thank you and I hope you can understand my stance on any and all topics...
Looking forward to seeing a lot of you at Irwindale and let's keep it positive because negativity is like cancer, it's infectious, bad, unhealthy and just ugly...

Don't HATE... Congratulate!

dude u just made me shed a tear! That was beautiful!!!

[my 1 88 u]

Let me rephrase this... can we have a predetermined tandem line. Because obviously some of these drivers cant run there qualifying line on a safe and consistent basis. Qualifying lines more then half the time are not these drivers fastest lines.

As we all see now, in drifting speed saves not kills lol

I just think drifting needs a knockout punch to take the judges out of it a little. I think FD drivers are good enough run their prefered lines in tandum.

[Slapshotnerd]

I just think drifting needs a knockout punch to take the judges out of it a little. I think FD drivers are good enough run their prefered lines in tandum.

FD Drivers will win at all costs. You can't trust a driver to do anything holistically. You HAVE to have a judge TELL the drivers which line to run, or they will all just end up running a shallow non-exciting racing line, with shallow angle just to get thru the course the fastest.