FORMULA DRIFT And Its Future, My View

[Slapshotnerd]

So are you saying that the lesser powered cars are at a disadvantage in the Championship series?

I remember bringing up the topic about this before and got shot down for doing so. I want drifting to be about the "SKILLZ" of the driver. It seems like whenever the lower ranked drivers improve their skillz and close the gap between them and the higher ranked drivers, something always comes up that prevents them from leveling the playing field......and it's usually $$$$$$$$$$$$.

Realistically, only about 5-8 teams are competitive year in and year out in FD, and those are the heavily sponsored ones. They have the resources to maintain their competitive advantage, which is a disadvantage for the others.

As much as I woild like to see the motorsport of drifting grow, I think FD is banking too much on these few teams to continue the growth of drifting. There is just too much of an "equipment" advantage for those that can afford it.

Some stats on the 2010 season:

16 of 18 podium positions have been won by a V8. Of those 2 podiums (Millen in Long Beach in a Turbo V6 and Tuerck in Seattle a Turbo 4), Tuerck has since moved on to a V8.

http://www.formulad.com/standings/2010.php
9 of the top 10 drivers in the series points have a V8 (Millen the exception). Expanding to Top 16, 12 of the top 16 are V8 (exceptions - Maeng in 3-rotor, Gushi in Turbo 4, and Aasbo in Turbo 6).

Compare 2009:
21 podiums:
1 V10 (Sam), 12 V8, 6 turbo 4 (3 Tuerck), 2 2-rotor (Miki).

Final Standings:
http://www.formulad.com/standings/2009.php
6 of top 10 and 8 of top 16 were V8 or V10.

Move back to 2008, and you'll see how quickly things have changed - Foust was Turbo 6, Millen was Turbo 4, Tuerck was a Turbo 4, Dai was in the GTO:
21 podiums:
6 V8 / V10 (3 Hubinette, 1 Forsberg, 1 Dai, 1 JR)
7 V6 (5 Foust, 1 Nishida, 1 McQ in Porsche)
7 4 cyl (4 millen, 1 Tuerck, 1 Sherman, 1 Yoshioka)
1 Rotary - JTP

Final Standings:
http://www.formulad.com/standings/2008.php
6 V8 / 10
3 V6
5 4 cyl
2 Rotary



draw your own conclusions. The above numbers are facts.

[ASD Team]

Pro drifting has been a speed contest for years. If you can't keep up (without sacrificing angle or line), there is no tandem. If there is no tandem, the judges can't judge tandem drifting.

This is nothing new. It was the same back in 2006 when I was the race engineer on Rhys's GTO.
Its why FD has three judging criteria. They judge Speed, Line, and Angle.

So all teams end up in a HP vs. grip equation. The more HP you have, the more grip you can dial in.

Unfair for the underfunded teams who cant afford to (or refuse to) build high horsepower engines? Absolutley. But that is nothing new in motorsports either. Look at any pro motorsport series and ask yourself if horsepower matters. Of course it does - its motorsport. Accept it or not, but pro drifting is motorsport too, and the same rules will always apply in any professional motorsport.

Accept that FD is a pro series, where the big boys play. Every competitior knows that when they show up to an FD event.
Sit back and enjoy the show. Most fans would sooner see 90mph+ entries and high speed drifting than 60mph entries and slower cars. If you disagree, thats fair, but I think you'll be in the minority of fans at an FD event.

Because this is just the nature of any professional motorsport, there is no 'golden rule' that can be created by FD to solve the issue about high horsepower cars vs. lower HP cars. The more rules that are made, the more advantage the already successful teams will have because they have the resources to figure out how to be competitive inside the 'new rule' package. This can easily just create an even bigger gap between the cars.

Look at any motorsport, and there are always teams that will run better than others, and teams that seem to have advantages figured out that others do not. The names don't often stay the same at the top for long, as that is the nature of competition.

NASCAR tried to make all the cars equal, and look what a debacle that turned out to be. Hendrick has their stuff figured out, and Jimmy Johnson keeps winning championships. The rule book is so tight, that the teams with the most resources hire the best people to figure out the tiny (and very expensive) advantages that are left. NASCAR really became a $$ game then, and the small teams are all but gone because of it.

As it stands today, our drift team is competitive but we know all too well there are multiple teams that can kick our butts on any given weekend. I think the 'loose' rulebook helps to allow that because it encourages development. The lessor funded teams in my opinion have improved odds with less rules in the FD rulebook.

Personally, I enjoy the competition. I also enjoy knowing that as FD stands today, any top 32 driver can take us out of an event and put us back on the trailer. It makes it way more fun, and challenging.

Be careful what you ask for or complain about, unless you fully understand all of the ramifications.

/off soapbox

[Bebop]

My idea of competition is not mediocrity, its knowing your opponent and being smart. Close tandem requires a good amount of trust in the OTHER driver.

You ever watch other racing? Sometimes its better to hold strong at 2nd or 3rd or even 5th than force a pass and wreck out. Drag cars sometimes dont even finish a 5 second run to save the motor, because its no good to turn a great time and blow up. In our sport, its not getting super close to the guy driving a little sketchy. Its not wussing out, its points toward a championship for your team and sponsors.

You can win a championship by consistency of finishing near the top, and not winning a single event in any racing discipline. I'm NOT saying don't go for the win everytime out, but there are smart and dumb ways to compete as you work though the field.

I agree, I love watching close tandems and all that too man.

Sorry man but your comparison of road racing does not and might not ever hold a candle to drifting. Racing is non stop action with all the cars on the field. You have to conserve your tire, your fuel, and the car all together. Your pits have to be perfect, and in my opinion you have to be in shape. And until you pass that checkered flag you have every chance in the world to advance and or win. You can conserve all day, sit around in 5th spot and turn the heat up with 6 laps to go and win the whole thing.

In FD as of right now other then your practice session. You get about a 1hr between your first two qualifying runs. You get a whole 12hrs from your qualifying runs to your first round of tandem in top 32 the next day. A minute of time (sometimes more) between your lead and chase. Then another lengthy brake between top 32 and 16. And the cycle continues. FD does not limit how many tires you can use in a weekend (and I'm not saying they should) you cant use tire warmers but you can light these things on fire before your run. And I cant remember the last time someone ran out of fuel during competition, not saying some teams have trouble affording it but as long as you got it there's no issue getting the stuff into your vehicle.

These teams have it made, and I don't see why a driver cannot give these fans a show every single lap. But every run does count unlike racing, when your seeded on the bracket you cant go and make up a qualifying run. When you get eliminated your weekend is over. I don't see the point of going through all that, spending all sorts of money, just go lolygag your way into top 32 just for a unflattering performance and elimination. If your skills aren't quite up to par or you cant get your car setup to the level of competition your competing, maybe you should stay in the minors. Get more seat time, compete with some drivers on your own level. Learn how to compete under pressure, and maybe learn to love the feeling of giving a good show.

Yeah, I know if you want to be the best you must compete with the best. But you must learn how to compete with the best to beat the best. Pro drivers still show up to these grassroots events in there pro cars. You can still go tandem with them. Learn how to follow and chase without pissing them off. If I earned my FD licence tomorrow, I would not compete in FD . I would look overseas, there's tons of series popping up all over the world and would love to have a American name in the series. Its not a free ride by all means, but its a good way to build a resume and learn how to compete and manage a team. I think this is something FD needs to look into at developing some of these drivers. I'm pretty sure alot would be up to it if they were pointed in the proper direction for resources.

Sorry for another lengthy post.

[Slapshotnerd]

I also enjoy knowing that as FD stands today, any top 32 driver can take us out of an event and put us back on the trailer. It makes it way more fun, and challenging.

Drivers who have beat JR this season:
Dai Yoshihara x3
Freddy Aasbo

Drivers JR has beaten:
Aasbo x3
Tuerck x3
Brakohiapa x2
Gushi
Kearney
Forsberg
Wilkerson
Ng
Pfeiffer
Nishida
McQuarrie
Pawlak
Foust
Takatori
Maeng
Essa
Mertezanis
Miki
Millen

Sure, in theory, a top 32 driver could take out JR... but this year, only 2 drivers have actually succeeded in removing JR from competition, and I wouldn't consider either one to be a "top 32" driver.

[ASD Team]

Drivers who have beat JR this season:
Dai Yoshihara x3
Freddy Aasbo

Drivers JR has beaten:
Aasbo x3
Tuerck x3
Brakohiapa x2
Gushi
Kearney
Forsberg
Wilkerson
Ng
Pfeiffer
Nishida
McQuarrie
Pawlak
Foust
Takatori
Maeng
Essa
Mertezanis
Miki
Millen

Sure, in theory, a top 32 driver could take out JR... but this year, only 2 drivers have actually succeeded in removing JR from competition, and I wouldn't consider either one to be a "top 32" driver.

JR has had a great season this year. But ASD runs four cars in FD, not just JR.
Have a look at how many times a driver who has been top 10 in points, or qualified in the top 10, has been taken out by a top 32 round driver.
Look at the stats again over the last two seasons and be fair about it this time

[Slapshotnerd]

JR has had a great season this year. But ASD runs four cars in FD, not just JR.
Have a look at how many times a driver who has been top 10 in points, or qualified in the top 10, has been taken out by a top 32 round driver.
Look at the stats again over the last two seasons and be fair about it this time

I'll work on that over the weekend.

jeez, someone should hire me to be a stats guy!

[Bebop]

Mcnamara
Rd.1 54
Rd.2 61
Rd.3 69
Rd.4 78
Rd.5 54
Rd.6 54
Conclusion: has no problem in top 32 but vulnerable beyond

McQuarrie
Rd.1 24
Rd.2 24
Rd.3 54
Rd.4 54
Rd.5 100
Rd.6 54
Conclusion: Top 32 was tough beginning in the season, but still inconsistent in the top 16

Pawlak
Rd.1 24
Rd.2 54
Rd.3 61
Rd.4 54
Rd.5 61
Rd.6 24
Conclusion: I will wait until post season on this one.

Overall ASD still takes their fair share of licks.

*note* Qualifying points not included.

[Slapshotnerd]

Mcnamara
Rd.1 54 - Lost to James Deane
Rd.2 61 - Lost to Dai
Rd.3 69 - Lost to Dai
Rd.4 78 - Lost to Tanner
Rd.5 54 - Lost to Tyler
Rd.6 54 - Lost to Tuerck

McQuarrie
Rd.1 24 - Lost to Takatori
Rd.2 24 - Lost to Mordaunt
Rd.3 54 - Lost to JR
Rd.4 54 - Lost to Takatori
Rd.5 100 - WON
Rd.6 54 - Lost to Tanner

Pawlak
Rd.1 24 - Lost to Wang
Rd.2 54 - Lost to Conrad
Rd.3 61 - Lost to JR
Rd.4 54 - Lost to Gushi
Rd.5 61 - Lost to Tony B
Rd.6 24 - Lost to Tanner

Don't forget to look at who they lost to. Losing to Dai / Tanner / Tuerck / JR is par for the course, 700hp vs 700hp, someone has to give. Although Dmac hasn't had fantastic results, all his losses have been to top-10 drivers. Not to take anything away from anybody else, just trying to show that losing early doesn't disprove my point.

I'd also be curious to find out if any of these losses were due to a spin or car-to-car contact. If you take yourself out, that's a whole other scenario.

[Justin Banner]

Just as a quick personal note, I will be at the finale at Irwindale this year. Doing what I did in ATL, being a car nerd and talking to the drivers!

[AlexPfeiffer]

You guys are pretty good with those stats. Can you do one for some of smaller motor cars for this year and past?

[my 1 88 u]

quoted from another thread

Panning.

stick the camera on the inside of the turn, and follow the car by physically moving the camera to follow the cars and "blur" the background, giving a sense of motion and action.

FD tends to shoot many of their shots from wider (and often higher) angles, which don't give the sense of motion.

Formula D needs to improve on there cinematography for the broadcasts on versus. We can now watch D1 and FD shows on the same day and aside from the annoying announcer, D-1's show is better. It is an hour long, shows qualifying runs, behind the scenes and most importantly better/closer action shots.

[Bebop]

SEMA is just over a month away

It will be interesting to see if "D1" will have a schedule by then for 2011.

[Justin Banner]

Another quick note. You may see this article on Jalopnik as I've decided to enter it for the "America's Next Top Car Blogger" contest. The contest depends on unique views, so here's hoping some drifters decide to read it!

[Jeff Jones]

The last D1 tv episode on Speed Channel was the worst I have seen. I have always thought they had the most drivers with more skill then us. But on this episode, every run someone was off course or spinning out and that was there top 16. Now I think Formula D has the most consistent driving.

[Bebop]

Based off of 1 episode, on a course that isn't comparable to any course in FD.

Ehhh

Its like Indycar talking down to F1 because 75% cant qualify or finish a race.

Yup, I just compared FD to Indycar