LIMIT on TIRES for the Weekend?

[5150 Cruiser]

NASCAR, Grand Am, Formula 1, and a few others have a tire limit rule.

True, but all these series i believe all run the same brand tire ( I know F1 does). A spec tire if you will designed for the series.

The only problem is you're really still not cutting costs. Teams with money to burn will still burn it, just somewhere else. Bebop told me of a great idea he had once that I thought would really revolutionize drifting here in the US. I'll let him detail it if he wants to.

Exactly. If you implement this rule in an attempt to even the playing field, then teams will just invest time and R&D in different area's. At what point does it stop?

I brought this up years ago, folks called me a idiot.

BTW, a team can always use a lower grade longer lasting tires in practice and sticky tires in qualifying and tandem.

I.E. 502s in practice 615ks in comp

Which will do absolutely nothing. More time will be needed to find a proper set up for two different tire compounds. All this is going to do is hurt the smaller teams that will need to burn up more rubber to fine tune their setup.

Try again, ASD. You know that having 2 trailers full of 615k's is an advantage on track, and you're trying to keep the status quo. Give me another excuse why you should have a stable of 30 sets of super sticky fast wearing 615k's in various sizes at your disposal on a given weekend while a privateer that can barely afford 20 tires for a weekend should be left to struggle to keep up with a harder compound tire.

Maybe, just maybe ASD LIKE MANY OTHER TOP TEER TEAMS, WORKED THEIR *Censored**Censored**Censored*'S OFF TO GET WHERE THEY ARE AND MADE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES TO THE POINT WHERE BIG NAMES SPONSORS WANT TO WORK WITH THEM. I'm sorry, but if that gives them an advantage over the smaller privateer teams then so be it. Any one of those privateers has the opportunity to get in the same spot. Yes, this sport cost money. privateer or big name, it isn't a cheap ride. I get tired of hearing all the bitching about how this series is unfair because the privateers can't keep up with the big boys. At some point, your going to need to step up your game. If you really want a completely level playing field then everyone needs to run the same tire, same chassis, same engine displacement, etc. Basically Nascar.

I don't think ASD hit any proverbial nail on the head. He, like too many drifters, are looking at this from a winning standpoint. Look at it from an entertainment standpoint and all of those views will change drastically.

Actually, i'd say he's looking at it from someone who has experience in the sport, as well as building some of the best drift cars to compete in the sport. And so what if he is looking at it from a drifters point of view? He wants to win. While it may not be necessary to win every event to get sponsors or keep them happy, anyone that is competing whether it be big name, or privateer, wants to do their best. But if you are looking at it from an entertainment standpoint, then I'd say this tire rule would be terrible. All your doing is limiting the amount of time a car has on the track, as well as the performance of the driver because he's to worried about conserving his tires for the next round.

FD is the premier drifting series in the U.S. This is where we see the best built machines compete. New technology and setups that many of us have dreamed of come to life. One of the biggest disappointments I had in drifting was not being able to see Nuformz drift challenger compete. Love it or hate it, it was built to the letter of the rule book and had alot of new features not seen in any other current drift cars.

Overall Tires are just one key of building a drift car. I have serious doubts that if you limit the number of tires used that you are going to see any more privateers on the podium and and lees "big teams" not.

[Bebop]

Which will do absolutely nothing. More time will be needed to find a proper set up for two different tire compounds. All this is going to do is hurt the smaller teams that will need to burn up more rubber to fine tune their setup.

How do you know? Not trying to sound childish or anything but how do you know Matt Fields, or maybe Jeff Jones don't have a setup to make use of both good and crappy tires? In D1gp and a few other series teams have a qualifying setup and a tandem. Who says you can't have a soft and hard compound setup?


There's a whole lot of contradiction coming from both sides of the argument, thats why even though I brought this up years ago I'm not going to get in depth with my argument. Like Cavi Mike, my main concern is entertainment. If such rule was enforced it would only bring actually strategy to a already boring sport. Lets figure out how to get these cars closer together and the overall pace of the sport sped up then we can talk about implementing some actual strategy.

[my 1 88 u]

It's time to bring in classes

[sytfu]

classes would ultimately be the way to go.. if you grouped hp's and weights you would probably get more competitors and a larger show.

[5150 Cruiser]

How do you know? Not trying to sound childish or anything but how do you know Matt Fields, or maybe Jeff Jones don't have a setup to make use of both good and crappy tires? In D1gp and a few other series teams have a qualifying setup and a tandem. Who says you can't have a soft and hard compound setup?

Oh you can have a soft and hard setup. And I'm not saying that teams can't, or don't have these setups. But in order to get these set ups, your going to have to use tires. If one is limited to the amount of tires they have then

There's a whole lot of contradiction coming from both sides of the argument, thats why even though I brought this up years ago I'm not going to get in depth with my argument. Like Cavi Mike, my main concern is entertainment. If such rule was enforced it would only bring actually strategy to a already boring sport. Lets figure out how to get these cars closer together and the overall pace of the sport sped up then we can talk about implementing some actual strategy.

See, i can't see how this is a good idea from an entertainment stand point. You want to see drivers putting in their all in and every run right? If your worried about tire conservation, then you really think each driver is going to give their all? I'm all for strategy, but if your looking at this from an entertainment stand point then i don't see how this spices up the sport.
Not to sound like a *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*, but all i hear is people being pissed off that their once backyard, home grown sport is now going main stream. Sports need to evolve. They need to grow. Instead of trying trying to punish the manufactures that produce great products, how about we put pressure on the companies to produce better products?

It's time to bring in classes

Hell no! That idea is even worse than the tire restriction. If you can't compete on the level the FD is at, then stay in the smaller series until you can.

[my 1 88 u]

Hell no! That idea is even worse than the tire restriction. If you can't compete on the level the FD is at, then stay in the smaller series until you can.

On the level? You mean 800hp V8's.

[Bebop]

See, i can't see how this is a good idea from an entertainment stand point. You want to see drivers putting in their all in and every run right? If your worried about tire conservation, then you really think each driver is going to give their all? I'm all for strategy, but if your looking at this from an entertainment stand point then i don't see how this spices up the sport.
Not to sound like a *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*, but all i hear is people being pissed off that their once backyard, home grown sport is now going main stream. Sports need to evolve. They need to grow. Instead of trying trying to punish the manufactures that produce great products, how about we put pressure on the companies to produce better products?

I don't know if your agreeing with me or misread what I just posted regarding the entertainment value.

But I am sorta a pissed off kid thats sad because the sport I once loved is no longer a dog fight but a game of automotive h.o.r.s.e. .

I think this is more of a challenge to the sponsors to create better products then a punishment.

Classes or restructure tandem rules, then we can worry about tire strategy/limitations.

[Cavi Mike]

Instead of trying trying to punish the manufactures that produce great products....

I really hope you're joking. The "great products" that are used in almost every sanctioned body on the planet are only used in one place: There.

Sponsoring is just a form of advertisement. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. If you believe otherwise you're a fool. The only people who get punished are the fans.

The manufacturers were around before drifting and they'll be around when the next fun auto sport shows up and guess what they'll do? They'll do the exact same thing they've done with every sport: Shower drivers with cash to sport their product and tell them WIN WIN WIN or else we'll take that money away. Then the fans get stuck with some BS that doesn't even closely resemble what the whole thing was supposed to be about.

But hey, let's not punish the manufacturers.

Idiot.

[5150 Cruiser]

On the level? You mean 800hp V8's.

Haters gonna hate. Your just pissed because you don't care for V8's and there dominating the series. There's a reason for it. There's easy to find, work on, build, relitivly cheap (espeacialy when compared to trying to make simular power numbers from a smaller displacment 4 or 6cyl turbo) and then there's the reliability factor.
Also, one doesn't need to make 800hp to be competitive (Forsberg proved that with his Titan V8 in his 350Z which barely made 450hp.). Also, don't know if anyone is really making 800hp right now (maybe Sam's sprint car motor in his challenger, but he hasn't exactly been competitive since he's had it.)

I don't know if your agreeing with me or misread what I just posted regarding the entertainment value.

To a point i am agreeing with you on the car setup. I'm sure all teams have set ups for new tires/worn tires. But it takes practice to find that setup.

But I am sorta a pissed off kid thats sad because the sport I once loved is no longer a dog fight but a game of automotive h.o.r.s.e. .

To a point, I see what your saying. I was pissed when they implemented the no passing rule and then frowned upon it (passing) if a driver actually did pass. To me that made the sport less exciting. But as with any motor sport, it evolves. when drifting started to become mainstream, did you honestly believe it would stay completely true to its roots? FD is far from perfect, but there's still not terribly off from where it started.

I think this is more of a challenge to the sponsors to create better products then a punishment.

If you implement this proposed tire rule, then no, its not. its mearly recognizing that some manufactures products are inferior to others and creating a handicap to fill in the gap. How is that challenging manufactures to make better products?

Classes or restructure tandem rules, then we can worry about tire strategy/limitations.

I'd love for a restructure of tandem rules.

I really hope you're joking. The "great products" that are used in almost every sanctioned body on the planet are only used in one place: There.

Sponsoring is just a form of advertisement. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. If you believe otherwise you're a fool. The only people who get punished are the fans.

The manufacturers were around before drifting and they'll be around when the next fun auto sport shows up and guess what they'll do? They'll do the exact same thing they've done with every sport: Shower drivers with cash to sport their product and tell them WIN WIN WIN or else we'll take that money away. Then the fans get stuck with some BS that doesn't even closely resemble what the whole thing was supposed to be about.

But hey, let's not punish the manufacturers.

Idiot.

What exactly was this sport supposed to be? Your just another "fan" who thinks he's owed everything. Even worse, who has little to no understanding how professional motor sports works. Ya, if it were up to you everyone would be driving Corolla's and 240's huh. Screw putting the sport on the main stream. Big cooperations suck,.. yada yada yada. Stop being such a cry baby.
This has nothing to do with rewarding the manufactures. But i don't see giving out a handicap because one manufacture has a better product than the other. Whether it be sponsorship, or being able to afford the product outright, i don't see it right to create some rule designed to take away that advantage. Some parts are going to work better than others. Thats how its always been and that's how it always will be. Once again i ask.. If you start with tires, then whats next?..

[my 1 88 u]

Why such vitriol towards fan?

I don't dislike the V8 mustangs, Camaros and Corvette. I just have a preference for a car using the power plant it was engineered from factory for. I don't even like the idea the ej257 FRS, or the Japanese and Europeans sticking 2JZs in every thing.

[5150 Cruiser]

Why such vitriol toward fan?

I don't dislike the V8 mustangs, Camaros and Corvette. I just have a preference for a car using the power plant it was engineered from factory for. I don't even like the idea the ej257 FRS, or the Japanese and Europeans sticking 2JZs in every thing.

Sorry if i jumped the gun. Just going by your past posts and as you seemed to dislike anything V8 related. Misunderstanding on my part and i apologize.

I can understanding preferring factory power plants, but i understand why many teams opt to use V8's. heck, even D1 is starting to catch on and seeing the benefit.

I really don't have an vitriol toward the fans. But this thread was started because someone felt one team has a significant advantage and all this rule does is hinder that team and there so called "advantage" and anyone that uses there product. All so other teams (mainly privateers) can gain a one up. If FD wants everyone to run a spec tire and then limit the number of tires they run thats different. Your on an even playing field. But i don't believe in creating rules simply because a smaller team can't afford the best equipment thats available.
This is professional motor sports. No one should be getting leg ups. Especially privateers. This is the big leagues. If you can't keep up, then keep practicing till you can. But rules shouldn't be made to make things easier. I want to see the best this series has to offer.

[my 1 88 u]

Sorry if i jumped the gun. Just going by your past posts and as you seemed to dislike anything V8 related. Misunderstanding on my part and i apologize.

I can understanding preferring factory power plants, but i understand why many teams opt to use V8's. heck, even D1 is starting to catch on and seeing the benefit.

I really don't have an vitriol toward the fans. But this thread was started because someone felt one team has a significant advantage and all this rule does is hinder that team and there so called "advantage" and anyone that uses there product. All so other teams (mainly privateers) can gain a one up. If FD wants everyone to run a spec tire and then limit the number of tires they run thats different. Your on an even playing field. But i don't believe in creating rules simply because a smaller team can't afford the best equipment thats available.
This is professional motor sports. No one should be getting leg ups. Especially privateers. This is the big leagues. If you can't keep up, then keep practicing till you can. But rules shouldn't be made to make things easier. I want to see the best this series has to offer.

I don't mind extreme builds if I can also watch down to earth machines at the top level as well. That is why I support classes. Have ASD but a car in each class; 4NA, 4T, 6t/V8, Unlimited.

[YOitzJDM]

I don't mind extreme builds if I can also watch down to earth machines at the top level as well. That is why I support classes. Have ASD but a car in each class; 4NA, 4T, 6t/V8, Unlimited.

So at current rate, there would be 0 / 6 / 30-somethin / ??? cars in each class. What's the point of that?

Aasbo was the only 4-banger to podium last year. If you clump Turbo 6's and V8's together, you really haven't done anything but guarantee that Walker Wilkerson / Taka Aono can finally 'earn' a podium win since there's so few cars in their class. Do you really want to see Walker / Taka / Aasbo / Ruskakoff (if he comes back) / Gushi / now Angelo all battling it out every round in their own class? That sounds boring.

[my 1 88 u]

So at current rate, there would be 0 / 6 / 30-somethin / ??? cars in each class. What's the point of that?

Aasbo was the only 4-banger to podium last year. If you clump Turbo 6's and V8's together, you really haven't done anything but guarantee that Walker Wilkerson / Taka Aono can finally 'earn' a podium win since there's so few cars in their class. Do you really want to see Walker / Taka / Aasbo / Ruskakoff (if he comes back) / Gushi / now Angelo all battling it out every round in their own class? That sounds boring.

That sounds awesome to me. If the top skilled drivers are battling in one class for the first season, I guarantee by the next season they will spread out for a better chance to podium. Have the winners from each class battle it out for the final 4. Even if the unlimited winner takes all rounds there are 4 winners, 5 trophies more sponser.

[Lifer]

I keep feeling like I'm seeing the history of another motorsport repeating itself with these kind of debates on rules/tires/etc.

IMO FD has always did their best in keeping it entertaining with competitive cars/drivers, but in no way will they ever split it up into classes. Spec tires will only happen in FD when sponsors can carry the series with only one brand of tire, and its not a step backwards for them. The rules of keeping the chassis as original as possible, and the weight-to-tire ratio being enforced makes a solid attempt in helping "even" the teams without drastically limiting the cars potential. What I want to see is more high profile performance shops getting into drifting. Expand the technology even further to push the limits of the rules through innovation and design with more variety of chassis competing in the top level. This way we can see more cars like the Falken team fill the entire top 32. Imagine what those battles will be like!

Instead of classes, FD should invest into expanding the FD feeder series along with a Sub-Pro series. This can be a very popular event if the right investment is made. Small rule changes that will make it easier for grassroots drivers to build a competitive car, but still implement the limitations of chassis and tires that the Pros follow so there are no bad habits or surprises when they graduate to FD rookie level. There is a lot of talented drivers not yet able to have the opportunity to show what they can do, and/or willingness to learn. The more FD reaches out to amateurs with support and knowledge, the more likely drivers will invest into drifting. The Sub-Pro series will piggyback on running proam events. Its a voluntary series where current and former pro drivers of any pro level series, with at least one full season or 7 rounds with pro competition under their belt, can get together and compete in either a top 8 or top 16 battle.
This way you can keep the drivers of the same level in the same competition. I.e. no more "grand canyon" gaps between cars. I know if I was a former pro FD driver wanting to get back in to comp, I would want to run with veteran drivers of other pro series to sharpen my skills. Proam drivers can opt to run with the Sub-Pro event if room allows to even the bracket. This way a Proam driver can challenge themselves, but if they feel they are not ready yet, they can still go pack to the proam series that they have points in.

Bottom line, I remember reading something the engineer of the FR-S said and it stuck with me. I can't remember exactly how it want, but I hope you get the idea. "If you build one car to try to make everyone happy it will fail. If you build one car to make a common interest group of people happy you will win." So what do you do? Build a second car for those who don't like the first one, and win again. Thank you all for your time reading this. Its not perfect, but its an idea that I feel would keep drifting in the peak of interest for anyone who wants to get involved. Much respect to all of the drivers, garage all nighters, big dreamers who never give up, and drifters of all walks of life. I’m a “Lifer” in the sport so everyone clutch kick the tires on fire, and keep drifting fun. Go USofA!