LIMIT on TIRES for the Weekend?

[YOitzJDM]

Drifting is not the kind of sport that needs dividing into classes like road racing. It needs to get more Pro level Performance Shops and BIG name sponsors to build its future.

Like who? You mean NASCAR teams?

NASCAR start-and-park teams make more by showing up to 1 event, making qualifying, rolling off the starting line, and then going behind the wall before they even finish the first lap than most FD teams will make in a full season.

[boxmod]

From a fan point of view top 16 was alot more entertaining then top 32. The drama and anticipation of somebody not making top 16 if they didn't throw down a awesome qualifying run was exciting. Yea there were a few bus length battles back then but now I gotta sit through 16 of them, after a day of lackluster strategic qualifying runs.

The only people who would be guilty of 'lackluster qualifying' efforts would be your big dogs that you love so much.

But you seriously find more solo qualifying runs more fun to watch than 16 tandem battles (32->16)?? what?

I do agree its awesome to see the upsets, but i think its more fun to see it happen in a battle rather than a scored run. Battles are much easier to see the difference between 17v16 drivers than the same 17v16 qualifying runs.

[5150 Cruiser]

How am I the one whining when I'm the only one willing to compromise and propose an idea that FORCES teams to possess a "properly built car"? What do you know another contradiction...
.

Properly built car? As far i knew all teams had to conform to the same set of rules when building a car. Yes, there might be some that can build a better car, but again, that's going to come from years of experiance as well as better equipment at there disposal.

There's no substitie for experiance. Forcing teams to buy premade chassis from certain builders isn't going to garantee better competion. The sport has just evolved. Not every battle is going to be toe to toe man. I think doing the top 32 was a good step in getting more battles. Qualifing is cool to watch, but i'd still rather see #1 qualifier go against #32 any day of the week than just a solo run from said driver.

[my 1 88 u]

I don't enjoy seeing the first place qualifier sent back to the pits because he went balls out behind a slow 32 place qualifier and messed up (Tanner Foust). The result is the high qualifiers giving way too much space to even call it tandem.

From a spectator of every single Drift Atlanta I prefer the top 16.

@Bebop
What to you mean by ProDrift, D1GP judging style?

Would you happen to be referring to the hp handicaps for throttle control, smoke and entry points or the lack of required wide lines?

[boxmod]

I don't enjoy seeing the first place qualifier sent back to the pits because he went balls out behind a slow 32 place qualifier and messed up (Tanner Foust). The result is the high qualifiers giving way too much space to even call it tandem.

Tanner Foust is an amazing driver, but if they don't have smaller tires to slow down the car or something similar for a battle like 1v32, maybe their team learned something. They had so much grip in that car is was impossible to lift throttle basically.

I would much rather have a faster car and slow it down than the slower car and..... have no choice.

I still say t32 helps the lower drivers learn some driving lines/confidence. Nothing teaches you faster than tandem with someone better than you.

[my 1 88 u]

ASD is guilty of this too. Build a big gap on the lead run then play it safe on the chase. Top 32 is boring untill you reach the middle of the pack.

Isn't the practice sessions where you are supposed to get that experience?

Why do people keep saying "American style" drifting? What defines it as "American style"? The only difference I can see is the over reliance on exaggerated drive lines during tandem (judeges call) and the action is rarely door to door from start to finish (biproduct of bad judging). How is that something to be proud of?

[boxmod]

In practice, some teams dont run full out anyways and you might not get to run tandem with the better guys. I don't know why some of the lower level guys always line up with.... lower lever guys. Unless the higher teir guys just wont let them line up?

If you want to see close tandems in top32 the judges need to hold to the "no sandbagging" stuff they started recently (JR @ Wall comes to mind). Its not impossible to drive with the guy in front and slow down your car some, or judge your gap better and catch them during the 2nd turn. Entry is the only place its really hard to not get choked up bad by a slower guy.

D1 typically has closer tandems because the skill level is much closer (they all have a lot more experience). The cars also dont have as much of a performance gap as there are more highly backed teams there.

Everyone here is being impatient on the sport.... its SO YOUNG still. The only thing that is really going to help is getting bigger sponsors involved to help the teams play a little more evenly, not many have a true chassis engineer working on the team.

[Bebop]

Boxmod... have you ever been in a D1 drivers meeting?

The whole line changes in tandem, the lead car must protect the inside line from the chasser.

That's why D1 tandem is closer along with the obvious experience advantage.

[boxmod]

Boxmod... have you ever been in a D1 drivers meeting?

The whole line changes in tandem, the lead car must protect the inside line from the chasser.

That's why D1 tandem is closer along with the obvious experience advantage.

Ok. I have not, but the rules allow passing.
If that was done in FD, then FD will have to allow passing as well (why else protect a line). And fine with me if they do that, but.... its not going to help the lower guys stay with the leaders much; a little bit, but i think if the fast cars go inside, they will keep the same gaps.

If you watch the Rd ATL 2005 video thats been circulating recently, drivers talk about the horsehoe line is to be inside and protect it. Today, its outside and wait for the top to shoot across the clip. There are also lots of drivers with meh driving that today, are insane... time= better comps/tandems. there is no shortcut really...

[Bebop]

I kindly disagree

If you make drivers compete for the inside line it will it will negate the advantages of a broad torque curve and large amounts of mechanical grip which will bring chassis lacking those qualities back to competitivenes. Taka has about a solid decade of experience but drives a vehicle with a narrow powerband and not a lot mechanical grip, I see him doing quite well in this type of tandem. I can think of alot of good drivers who are in chassis lacking FD competitivenes.

I dont know what battle your referring to but I can think of a few from atla 2k5... nevertheless please post it.

[5150 Cruiser]

I kindly disagree

If you make drivers compete for the inside line it will it will negate the advantages of a broad torque curve and large amounts of mechanical grip which will bring chassis lacking those qualities back to competitivenes. Taka has about a solid decade of experience but drives a vehicle with a narrow powerband and not a lot mechanical grip, I see him doing quite well in this type of tandem. I can think of alot of good drivers who are in chassis lacking FD competitivenes.
.

I'll agree that protecting the inside line as well as alowing passing would make for better drifting, but this would not nessasarly neglate the advantages of a broad torque curve. This is gong to largely depend on track layout.
And while i respect taka for his experiance, i don't believe that we should be basising the series on drivers that either can't build a compeditive car, or refuse to. (taka knows the rules, but if he still insists on building an all motor 4cyl then thats on him).

You can't force compeditivness. Even if you bring in inside lines, force privateers to buy pro built chassis and limit the type of vehicles that can compete, you can't force experiance. Someone already said if you think someone is going to come in within there first couple of years and kill it your sadly mistaken.

The sport has simpley evolved and people need to evolve with it. When this sport took off in the U.S. everyone started at the bottom and worked there way up. All started with simular build techniques, chassis setups, and had around the same experiance. Those same drivers are now experianced in both driving technique as well as chassis setup, and chassis builders now now things no one knew 10, or even 5 years ago. Your always going to have some sort of seperation between pro and entry level and while i'm sure we'd all love to see every tanduem in the top 16/32 bumper to bumper, thats just not a reality. Name one sport where every race/run is tight nit and toe to toe? it doesn't exhist. Like i already said, FD and the rules are far from perfect, but in all honesty i really don't see this aspect needing to be changed.

[Bebop]

Taka is running a 400+ hp turbo scion tc (?) motor. 17 in wheels and wide tires for corolla standards and still he struggles. Maybe if he ran a S13 rear suspension setup he could mustard up some mechanical grip but he still is in a uphill battle with such a short wheelbase.

As far as rookies not being able to compete... Aasbo was a beast his rookie years. Odi was looking damn sharp last season as well. As to tracks, the only ones I see still giving a advantage in torque and grip in D1 style tandem are the ovals and maaaaybe ATL only because its uphill. But if the judges take car setup into consideration it should make things a bit easier for those that lack.

I dont understand you 5150, one paragraph you say you can't force competitivenes or skill. But a paragraph later your saying competitors need to change and evolve. So what should we do? Sit back and watch paint dry for half of the event?

Classes,Passes, or Subtractions... I proposed them all. But as long as the tickets keep selling we are all fooling ourselves if we think FD is gonna take anything into consideration.

[my 1 88 u]

But as long as the tickets keep selling we are all fooling ourselves if we think FD is gonna take anything into consideration.

Bingo. I don't know a single drift fan that cares for wide lines and no passing. Are the drivers dead set against giving the fans what they want to see because there is an effective monopoly or has the FD brass shut down their suggestions?

[Jeff Jones]

Taka is running a 400+ hp turbo scion tc (?) motor. 17 in wheels and wide tires for corolla standards and still he struggles. Maybe if he ran a S13 rear suspension setup he could mustard up some mechanical grip but he still is in a uphill battle with such a short wheelbase.

Not sure if this is true. Here is a list of wheel base.
Wheelbase 2,400 mm (94.5 in) Corolla TAKA AONO 4cl
Wheelbase 95.1 in (2,416 mm) Saturn Sky Darren Mcnamara V8
Wheelbase 2416 mm (95.1 in) Pontiac Solstice Ryan Yuerck V8
Wheelbase 95.7 in (2,431 mm) FC3s CHARLES NG V8
Wheelbase 95.5 in (2,426 mm) FD3s We know the do good with a v8

The corolla rear suspension is the same as the mustangs I believe and the do well.
So I think a corolla would do just as good as the sky with the right v8 setup.

What I want to know is. How did some of these cars that weighed 2500lbs and under in 09, now weigh 2900 for there tire class.
we can only add a 50lbs weight in the rule book.

[Bebop]

Consider:

The mustang has a fairly long wheelbase

The RX7s and the solstice/sky have double wishbone

But yeah maybe the car would do well with a double wishbone and a V8... too bad it won't pass tech