Too many drivers in FD? Only keep the top 16

[YOitzJDM]

There's talk about WHY many drivers aren't competitive... what if FD became invite only?

Let's face it - there's about 15 'good' drivers, and about 20 to 25 'filler' drivers. We could easily just not give those 'filler' drivers a license.

Cut to the chase - have you hit a top 8 in the last 2 years?

if the answer is no, then you get chopped. Plain and simple. If you can't win 2 tandem rounds (or have your opponent spin twice), then you are out.

Who does this leave:

JR, Forsberg, Dai, Tuerck, JTP, T McQ, Dmac, Rhys, Aasbo, Grunewald, Yoshioka, Gushi, Mohan, Powers. Hubinette would be a maybe as he didn't hit a top 8 in 2011 (i think he's washed up), and someone like Mordaunt would be a 'maybe' since he has only made 1 top 8 in the last 3 years combined (and has more DNQ's than not). Make a special exception for someone like Saito, maybe invite Denofa as the 2-time XDC champ.

Who gets cut:
Ross Petty, Dean Kearney, Matt Field, Matt Waldin, Taka Aono, Charles Ng, Joon Maeng, Jeff Jones, Robbie Nishida, Alex Pfeiffer, Tony Brakohiappa, Walker Wilkerson, etc. Odi and Essa have both made a single top 8 in the past 2 seasons, they would probably be marginal. In most cases, these guys simply aren't competitive, and don't have a chance unless they face someone who breaks or spins in the top 16 (or another driver in this list).

imagine if top 16 was ALWAYS the big dogs, instead of an ASD vs ASD matchup in the top 32 while 2 no-name rookies battle in another bracket and 1 is guaranteed into top 16 because of the qualifying rankings.

I'm sure all the privateers would hate this idea, and all the grassroots people would be mad that a guy like Walker Wilkerson isn't able to showcase his talent, but let's be honest - Walker had a win/loss record of 2-6 in tandems. He's more likely to lose than win. As a UFC fighter, if you lose 3 straight matches, you get canned from UFC and have to go back to the minor leagues.

Maybe it's not the tires that need to be limited but the drivers.



Discuss.

[theSidesweep]

This would go back to the idea of splitting up Formula D into classes, or many drivers simply migrating to XDC.

I definitely see what you're saying though, it seems like the only competitive drivers are the ones you've mentioned and the others would be better off in a separate class/organization.

Regardless, you only get better by driving against more skilled drivers - otherwise, competition would never improve.

[my 1 88 u]

Last year after JR failed to make qualifying for round one after winning the 2010 season I suggested something similar. I suggested there be 8 seeded drivers comprised of the previous season's top 8 finishers and the rest of the field competes for the other 8 tandem spots per round. I think D1 has 6 seeded drivers that have a bye to round of 8 or something.

[Jeff Jones]

So you named off 13 drivers for your main show. Since on average 45 drivers show up that leaves you with 32 regular teams.

Maybe we should drop these super teams that you mentioned and go with the rest in a d1 style. That cuts out most of the v8s and the guy with all the tires.
Sounds like a Win Win. Good Ideal!!! Drifting will go back to what it use to be, what ever body on here is saying the want.

[MonkeySlide]

I'm sorry but your plan really does not make a lot of sense to me. One of the best parts about drifting is that technically an underdog has a realistic shot against a front runner and that is in regards to both driver, team, and car.

By "cutting" all of that out you would just be fortifying the V8 fest that Formula Drift is already becoming.

You would also be negating the top 32 bracket format that Formula Drift created to have constant action.

Not to mention that many of the people you mentioned have sponsors that you would essentially be kicking out of the sport. It does not make much sense to me to push out companies who are willing to spend money on drifting.

Who gets cut:
Ross Petty, Dean Kearney, Matt Field, Matt Waldin, Taka Aono, Charles Ng, Joon Maeng, Jeff Jones, Robbie Nishida, Alex Pfeiffer, Tony Brakohiappa, Walker Wilkerson, etc. Odi and Essa have both made a single top 8 in the past 2 seasons, they would probably be marginal. In most cases, these guys simply aren't competitive, and don't have a chance unless they face someone who breaks or spins in the top 16 (or another driver in this list).

Ross Petty, Dean Kearney, Joon Maeng? You want to cut Joon Maeng? One of the most liked and respected drivers on the grid?!

More than a few of those drivers have significant fan bases that you would be shunning.

At its heart I understand what you want. You want to weed out people who are not good enough to grace our presence with their feeble drifting skills.

The thing is Formula Drift already has a system in place for that. It is called qualifying.

[my 1 88 u]

http://www.drifting.com/forums/gener...tml#post258350

I have an idea that would totally suck for the spirit of anything goes on race day but totally take Formula D to the next level from a marketing perspective. have you given the thought to giving the top 8 drivers from the previous season a contracted permanent spot in the top 32 for all rounds for the following season? Non contracted drivers would then vie for the remaining 24 spots each round. Having permanent markee drivers representing Formula D, at least for one season would be easier to market and you avoid having a situation were last years champ doesn't get to perform for his fans in round 1.

Is it fair to the spirit of competition? Some might say no
Will it bring more big name non endimic sponsors to the sport that are guaranteed more return on their investment? Yeah
Will it bring some of the attention off of the single season winner, and give fans 8 drivers/cars/teams to focus their attention on? Yeah
Is this idea just making official what D-1 has been doing for years through corruption? Yeah

What do you think?

[Shadowhuntr]

This idea is silly and not entertaining for the fans. Fans root for the underdog. What makes FD interesting is that it can be anyones day any time. With that same logic Matt Powers and Rhys Millen should have been cut a long time ago. There's alot that goes on behind the scenes and it is very hard to get a car dialed in and on point, sometimes it takes a while as we are seeing with Rhys. The reason FD is great is because anyone can make it in there with enough determination, anyone has a shot at making it big and living their dream.

[YOitzJDM]

One of the best parts about drifting is that technically an underdog has a realistic shot against a front runner and that is in regards to both driver, team, and car.

All of the drivers I've mentioned haven't won 2 consecutive tandem rounds at an event in the past 2 years. How 'realistic' of a shot do they have if they can't make top 8 once every 2 years? Ross Petty is one of the few who has been competing since 2004, but I don't think he's ever even made a final 4 (which, back in the days of top 16, meant only winning 2 tandem rounds, and is only 3 tandem wins away in this day in age). I think Tanner Foust / JR / Dai / Forsberg / Tuerck / possibly several other drivers have won more round than they've lost in their career. Joon Maeng won 1 tandem battle and lost 5 last year (not including the 2 events he failed to qualify at). In 2010, he was 4-6, for a combined total of 5-11 over 2 seasons. That's under .333 win percentage. I don't like watching drivers who lose 2/3 of the time.

By "cutting" all of that out you would just be fortifying the V8 fest that Formula Drift is already becoming.

Aasbo / Mohan / Millen aren't V8's. We're fortifying the drivers who win tandem rounds. Drifting is all about tandeming, right? So why not keep the drivers who are the best at tandem?

You would also be negating the top 32 bracket format that Formula Drift created to have constant action.

So? the 'big show' takes too long as it is. Top 32 usually takes 2 hours, then top 16 takes another 1.5 to 2 hours. Make the whole show just top 16 and do it in under 2 hours, which is the length of most movies or concerts.

Not to mention that many of the people you mentioned have sponsors that you would essentially be kicking out of the sport. It does not make much sense to me to push out companies who are willing to spend money on drifting.

Who would we be kicking out? If Maeng is gone, I think all of his sponsors would just spread their money to other drivers that they already support (Enkei has multiple drivers, Mazda could support Mohan, Nitto has multiple drivers, etc). We aren't telling the sponsors to take a hike, just telling them to support the best of the best instead of wasting money on drivers who are capable of winning a tandem round or two multiple times per year.

Ross Petty, Dean Kearney, Joon Maeng? You want to cut Joon Maeng? One of the most liked and respected drivers on the grid?!

Yup. Liked and respected doesn't entertain me. I want to see wins, not spinouts and broken parts. The reliability of that RX8 has gotten worse every season. How many times did Joon lose because the car wouldn't shift ? That car is the most expensive hunk of crap on the grid. It was better when it had a simpler setup and Justin Pawlak driving.

More than a few of those drivers have significant fan bases that you would be shunning.

At its heart I understand what you want. You want to weed out people who are not good enough to grace our presence with their feeble drifting skills.

The thing is Formula Drift already has a system in place for that. It is called qualifying.

I'd venture to say that Qualifying doesn't mean much of anything in FD. How many times have ASD cars qualified on the lower half of the grid? how many times has a lower funded team qualified somewhere between 4th and 8th, but lost in the first round of tandem? A few years ago, EDC had a qualifying bracket that was literally drawn out of a hat. While I think that is a bit extreme, it's pretty much what qualifying at FD is. The judges pull numbers out of their *Censored**Censored**Censored*. If you ask a judge to explain why 1 driver got a 22.3 on line and another got a 21.7, they can't explain the difference between those 2 numbers. Yet that .6 points could be the difference between getting into the show and sitting on the sidelines. I think they subconsciously artificially inflate the numbers of the big drivers, and hold the privateers and lower funded teams to higher standards. Bring the top 16 drivers to every event, and show me a competition among only the best drivers.

No offense to Jeff Jones (i'm glad he's chiming in on this thread since most drivers tend to keep away from this forum these days), but if he's battling walker wilkerson or matt waldin or any of the other drivers I listed, I'm probably going to go pee or get some food during that battle because it's boring compared to watching 2 ASD cars go at it, or seeing Gushi take out Dai like at Irwindale last year.

[YOitzJDM]

This idea is silly and not entertaining for the fans. Fans root for the underdog. What makes FD interesting is that it can be anyones day any time. With that same logic Matt Powers and Rhys Millen should have been cut a long time ago. There's alot that goes on behind the scenes and it is very hard to get a car dialed in and on point, sometimes it takes a while as we are seeing with Rhys. The reason FD is great is because anyone can make it in there with enough determination, anyone has a shot at making it big and living their dream.

I agree about Matt Powers being cut as a 4-cylinder. The only time he was competitive was when he put a v8 in his car and hired a competent crew chief (Costas) instead of the mickey mouse crew he had before.

Has Rhys ever had a season where he didn't make a top 8? I know he only had 1 in 2009 which was the first year of the Genesis, but even that shows that he can start from scratch and make a car competitive in less than 1 full season. Some of these guys are in the same car for 3 or 4 years and still can't make a top 8.

[boxmod]

the whole idea that they need to get out sounding rather 'elitist' like those people at events who are "too good" to talk to the guy at his first event because he isnt flicking it in like Saito. I spend many events STANDING at the start line, giving these guys the option of help- 95% of them are too scared to ask thinking they will be ridiculed/look stupid. I don't think any of us entered at 85mph and rode the wall with 90* of angle our first time out.

get off your high horse and realize that YOU ARENT IN A POSITION TO JUDGE THESE DRIVERS IF YOU ARE NOT AN FD LICENSE HOLDER ANYWAYS. you have no idea the level of effort people put in, or how much extra practice they can afford, or testing sessions....

using your logic...soon you'll tell me that anyone who isnt an assistant manager up to the CEO of a company needs to be cut... i mean -IF YOU CANT GET A PROMOTION THEN QUIT, TRY SOMETHING NEW.... amiright?

besides, more teams makes the series much more legitimate. a 1/2 empty pit area makes it much less appealing to fans, and sponors of the series.

Go compare the driving from 2005/6 and you will see todays "ProAm" skill levels. If you really think.... back in early 2000s you were GOD to slide a single turn without spinning out, then like 2004/05 you had to link the track or no one cares, then~ 2007 you had to do it fast or you were a pu55y, then 2009 its backwards or your being a b!tch, and now 2011 you are complaining that people aren't 6 inches apart the whole track..... soon we will have FD be full demolition derby style with spikes and oil slicks via "Death Race"?

if you are so concerned, go get an FD career/team together and show how its done, or show some props to the guys who ARE.

really sick of the disrespect being shown to guys POURING their efforts into a team/car/career to have people say they should go home. they earned an FD license, let them compete. same goes for the teams that are on top, you don't take the kid with an A+ to a B to make the kids with C- feel better... suck it up and study. (funny part is the drivers of FD aren't the ones complaining, its the spectators.)- i guess its the "parents" of the C- student who wants Mr.NerdyPant's kid's grade lowered to a B?

REAL ISSUES:
FD TV program skipping 80% of the event and showing just top 8.... how do we expect less funded teams to get support if we don't get them ANY air time?

[Dafne]

This is a great post, sometimes I really think why there are so many drivers that rarely get to a top 16, 8 still competing, but I'm not sure if I like the idea or not, I think I still have to read more/think about it. =)
It seems fair enough to cut those who cant hit a top8 or something for long periods, but on the other side, it also seems like cutting the chances for those drivers to show some improvement eventually... and even those drivers can perform some great battles on top 32, top16.
my point is: I like drift, no matter if it's a top 32, top 16 or top 8 battle. of course more skilled drivers can perform much better, but the other ones are still doing their best and they know how to drift =) but considering the rules in other sports, like you mentioned, it's a great topic to discuss about.
and what other reasons could be given to cut those guys?

[Dafne]

I forgot to mention, Joon Maeng SHOULDN'T be in this idea of cutting drivers. He's so skilled and I really like him. lol

[my 1 88 u]

Cuting drivers is insane. I think automatically seeding 1/4 to 1/2 of the drivers is the compromise.

[boxmod]

complaints in the other thread were "lazy/safe" qualifying runs, but youd rather give them a freebie?

[my 1 88 u]

complaints in the other thread were "lazy/safe" qualifying runs, but youd rather give them a freebie?

If you have only 8 to 24 open slots people will run harder than if they are competing for 32