(FEEDBACK) 2JZ vs V8 - For DRIFTING

[Piner]

Im not saying that Daigo should be given a bye because he was driving around the lag, I was just trying to point out the obvious that the his engine setup had less to do with his performance than some are making it out to be. Some people act like "2jz just won the championship!!!". When really it was Daigo's driving that did it. If he had been in a V8 car people wouldn't be making as big a deal about what engine he had.

To me its still advantage V8 for the majority of tracks

[Slapshotnerd]

Where is this 500 horsepower number coming from? You guys do realize that you can make 500hp reliably all day on a stock 2JZ with a larger turbo?

Like Aasbo in 2010?

I think Aasbo's Supra is a perfect example of what you can do with a motor that's built appropriately.

Nobody FORCED Daigo to build a twitchy / laggy setup. He did that on his own accord. Thus, if he has to make adjustments to 'drive around' the lag, he should be punished just like the drivers who have small turbo's and have to correct when they 'fall out of boost'.

Matt field's entry speeds were 7 to 8 mph slower than Saito on his lead run. But he wasn't punished for it, as his qualifying runs were slower. On the same accord, watching Field keep up with Saito on the chase run knowing he entered 7-8 mph slower should be rewarded... wait, wrong thread

[vvtisupra]

yah but you'll never get the adherent torque curve even with nitrous or anti lag

[rtype16]

Where is this 500 horsepower number coming from? You guys do realize that you can make 500hp reliably all day on a stock 2JZ with a larger turbo?

[ASD Team]

Just from the outside looking in, with no real information to back it up excepting being around FD since Long Beach 2006, I think you could be correct Piner.

We ran against Daigo in China, and it was like driving against a completely different driver when he was in a different car. It was one of the best tandem battles I've ever seen in my life, no exaggeration. JR and Daigo both blew my mind in that battle with JR squeaking out the win. Daigo obviously has huge talent, and with no disrespect intended to his team whatsoever, he has appeared to do an amazing job this year driving around the power delivery. After watching and thinking about it all year - after all we considered Daigo's team to be one of our biggest challengers so I was paying particular attention - that is the conclusion I personally came to. Be it right or wrong.

It certainly created challenges we hadn't seen before when we were in the chase position, on a number of occaisions this year. I felt we could match the outright speed of the 2J, but the different style of wheel speed application in what was to "our normal FD series" unusual areas of the track certainly caught us out on numerous occaisions when chasing him.

I think this is why some drivers considered his style dirty. I have huge respect for both Daigo and his team and think that is certainly not the case. Moving forward I think it will be up to the FD series to decide whether other drivers adopt a similar style, having seen the potential advantage in tandem when in the lead position, or whether FD makes a concious decision to attempt to judge against a difficult car to follow - not the driver.

Relevant to the 2J vs V8 discussion here, the more power made with a turbo car the more likely the lag issue becomes. Obviously the Achilles team is adding nitrous to counter the problem, props to them for the seemingly partial solution. In time, I think it will be FD themselves, and how they decide to progress their series in regard to tandem battles, that may determine whether the most competitive engine solution is a 2J style turbo engine with big power and potential lag / throttle / wheelspeed challenges or an N/A V8 with a broader torque curve but less power overall.

This is just my opoinion of course, based on little to zero knowledge of the Achilles team's program. I could be completely wrong, and in no way saying they are not doing a great job. They won a lot of tandem battles this year and won the championship, big props to Daigo and their team. No one can deny they didn't come over here and do a fantastic job as a team and with the 2J platform.

[Piner]

I like how people are attributing Daigo's win to the engine that he has and really to be honest (As a JZ lover/owner myself) I actually think it was about 80% of the reason his driving was so "questionable" this year. I think alot of what the other drivers took as "playing games" was simply Daigo driving around the lag. Its been obvious all year he has been fighting the car's power delivery. I've seen him drive and had a ride along in japan and he was 100% smoother than what I've seen from him in FD.

Now having said that Im not sure there are too many people out there who would be able to do the same with that setup. Really increases my respect for Daigo even more. To take a car that is that difficult to drive and do what he has done in tandem is extraordinary. I think people who don't realize this are getting too caught up in the numbers. Yeah its alot of power but do you really think if he had "only" 650whp in a more responsive car that he wouldn't have been as competitive? I mean he runs the same line in his 350hp JZX90 missile as he does with his 800hp jzx100 D1 car at Ebisu south.


Most of the courses in FD having good low end tractablity is a very favorable thing. So I still think despite Daigo's results the V8 (Or any other torque laden configuration) is still king and will be for the foreseeable future.

[theSidesweep]

^ Very interesting. Definitely excited to see how this might impact the current field of LS-powered platforms.

[Slapshotnerd]

Already working on it Jacob.

The 427 engine in the RTR-D customer spec 2013 Mustang drift car is a 600HP all aluminum Ford crate engine. We modify it for EFI, have our own CNC machined aluminum engine plate and a bunch of other parts designed and manufactured in house to make it more drift friendly. We're already putting those engines in customer cars. I think MSRP on those from Ford is around $13k.

But what makes more sense for most people I would think is the 363 cubic inch engine based on the Boss 302 block. Its a short deck height so a very small compact engine physically. All the same drift specific developed parts fit on it from the 427 package and we're currently building a 240 swap for that engine on our house "play" car. That engine is 500HP as a Ford crate engine and MSRP around $8k.

I'm REALLY excited to hear this

I'm admittedly not as technical as some out there, but I like seeing variety. Having a $10k turnkey engine program will go a long way. I can see that being a hot item!

[ASD Team]

Already working on it Jacob.

The 427 engine in the RTR-D customer spec 2013 Mustang drift car is a 600HP all aluminum Ford crate engine. We modify it for EFI, have our own CNC machined aluminum engine plate and a bunch of other parts designed and manufactured in house to make it more drift friendly. We're already putting those engines in customer cars. I think MSRP on those from Ford is around $13k.

But what makes more sense for most people I would think is the 363 cubic inch engine based on the Boss 302 block. Its a short deck height so a very small compact engine physically. All the same drift specific developed parts fit on it from the 427 package and we're currently building a 240 swap for that engine on our house "play" car. That engine is 500HP as a Ford crate engine and MSRP around $8k.

[Slapshotnerd]

Just a quick fact check, without trying to get into anything.

JR and JTP's engines don't even make 850 at the crank, yet alone at the wheels. There were definitely cars in FD this year with much more horsepower.
Actual cost is right at around $50k, fully dressed with everything on the engine. That includes ITB set-up, dry sump pump, the works.

More expensive than the 2J per Jason's cost numbers for sure, and less horsepower. But I can't put a 2J in a Ford Mustang

The same engines were in both cars all season, all we did was check the valve clearances, change the oil, and put gas in the tank.

I agree with Jason's last comment 100%. Whats under the hood is only a part of the equation. If it wasn't, those two ASD Mustangs wouldn't have won four out of seven FD events this year.

People get too wrapped up in the horsepower numbers I think.

Congrats to Daigo and his team for winning the championship this year. It was a great battle down to the wire, and l expect it will be again next year too.

Out of curiosity, how much work (beyond the cost of parts) would it be to take a Ford crate motor and bring it up to JTP / JR spec? How does the size / configuration of the motor compare to the LS-based setup? Would it be easily adaptable to a conversion? Your shop is one of the few that has worked with both in the drifting world.

I ask because with this growing involvement from Ford for next season, it would be interesting to see if Ford starts to make these motors more available for swaps and conversions to try and make an impact on all the LS motors powering non-Chevy cars on the grid.

[ASD Team]

Robbie's motor last time on the dyno made @ 850 whp and 780 tq @ 30lbs without NOS. We use a small amount of NOS during the events to help with spool-up.

JTP's and JR's motors are from Roush Yates making close to the same power the main difference here is cost. The cost to build a 2j to make this kind of power can range but a fair estimate is roughly 15k - 20k the cost for JTP's motor is more like 80k.

Bottom line it takes more then just a motor to get the job done. This sport is great because it's a balance of power, traction, and driver. Whatever motor you plan on running the most important thing is longevity.

Cheers

Just a quick fact check, without trying to get into anything.

JR and JTP's engines don't even make 850 at the crank, yet alone at the wheels. There were definitely cars in FD this year with much more horsepower.
Actual cost is right at around $50k, fully dressed with everything on the engine. That includes ITB set-up, dry sump pump, the works.

More expensive than the 2J per Jason's cost numbers for sure, and less horsepower. But I can't put a 2J in a Ford Mustang

The same engines were in both cars all season, all we did was check the valve clearances, change the oil, and put gas in the tank.

I agree with Jason's last comment 100%. Whats under the hood is only a part of the equation. If it wasn't, those two ASD Mustangs wouldn't have won four out of seven FD events this year.

People get too wrapped up in the horsepower numbers I think.

Congrats to Daigo and his team for winning the championship this year. It was a great battle down to the wire, and l expect it will be again next year too.

[5150 Cruiser]

Hello,

Though I'd jump in here since we were the ones that built Robbie's 2j and know a little first hand info on Daigo's set-up... Both motor are similar and have made it through the season without any major issues. Robbie's motor last time on the dyno made @ 850 whp and 780 tq @ 30lbs without NOS. We use a small amount of NOS during the events to help with spool-up.

JTP's and JR's motors are from Roush Yates making close to the same power the main difference here is cost. The cost to build a 2j to make this kind of power can range but a fair estimate is roughly 15k - 20k the cost for JTP's motor is more like 80k. You can find these motors in off-road and GT road racing and are race proven.

Most of the LS platform motors in the field are in the @ 500 whp with a few like Tyler's and Dai's making more and cost in the area of 15k -25k.

Bottom line it takes more then just a motor to get the job done. This sport is great because it's a balance of power, traction, and driver. Whatever motor you plan on running the most important thing is longevity.

Cheers

Your cost evaluation really isn't fair. I could be wrong, but i belive both JR, and JTP use very fancy individula throttle body systems which bump up the cost significatly, and as also doing it all motor. Yes, there motors are proabbaly overkill as there set up for more endurance, lap after lap, after lap. Just as you said, there proven platforms that have been tested in off road, road racing etc.
Your don't need to spend 15K-to 20K to get 500hp from an LS. You can by a 500hp crate LS9 crate engine right from GM for $7,500. As most know there isn't one set rule to how you get power. Depending on your driving style you might build your motor different than the next guy.

[jason@psi]

Hello,

Though I'd jump in here since we were the ones that built Robbie's 2j and know a little first hand info on Daigo's set-up... Both motor are similar and have made it through the season without any major issues. Robbie's motor last time on the dyno made @ 850 whp and 780 tq @ 30lbs without NOS. We use a small amount of NOS during the events to help with spool-up.

JTP's and JR's motors are from Roush Yates making close to the same power the main difference here is cost. The cost to build a 2j to make this kind of power can range but a fair estimate is roughly 15k - 20k the cost for JTP's motor is more like 80k. You can find these motors in off-road and GT road racing and are race proven.

Most of the LS platform motors in the field are in the @ 500 whp with a few like Tyler's and Dai's making more and cost in the area of 15k -25k.

Bottom line it takes more then just a motor to get the job done. This sport is great because it's a balance of power, traction, and driver. Whatever motor you plan on running the most important thing is longevity.

Cheers

[boxmod]

400 hp is pro am

your missing the point of my sarcastic statement.

[INFO]

2JZ vs V8

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rgalvan7 about 20 hours ago
2jz!
dmont0446 about 20 hours ago
2jz
ifrizzle about 20 hours ago
V8!!
m_werks about 20 hours ago
2jz
ikenzo about 20 hours ago
2jz
rob_slappo about 20 hours ago
Both, seen them at work already.
joelthemaniyak about 20 hours ago
ifrizzle has no brain. Lol
tntpools about 20 hours ago
Raw horse power v8 all day
alexi_ponce7 about 20 hours ago
Obviously 2jz
kyle_outlaw about 20 hours ago
2jz but would rather a 30/26 over both
dorittosfeet about 20 hours ago
Lol I was just googling this! xD
derx7 about 20 hours ago
ROTARY!!!!!!! FTW
carloanthonypipia about 20 hours ago
V8
hybrid_81 about 20 hours ago
V8 is how everyone is doing it now, 2JZ also RB26 and 20B Rotary...!!!
alimakhseed about 20 hours ago
Single turbocharged 2jz (y)
2wentythre3 about 20 hours ago
InlineFour FWD FTW OBVIOUSLY!!! emoji
sirhoonigan619 about 20 hours ago
V8 LSX
1van_b about 20 hours ago
Sr20 !lol
yaboiiwood about 20 hours ago
Daigo proved a point this past weekend.
mdrayes about 20 hours ago
V8 emoji
jimdizle about 20 hours ago
Why 1200hp.. because 2jz
nyinmia about 20 hours ago
@lasthero32 @dookie_rick @jcrillz @chrisj87 see what daigo did lol
pea_nut_buttertoast about 20 hours ago
V8 are what are in the fd cars
darthrabbit about 20 hours ago
All depends, if you have skills and want to have fun 2JZ, or want the easy way to do it with no skills V8
chapinnnn about 20 hours ago
2jz let's keep it jdm
beaudayo about 20 hours ago
^lol
rob_slappo about 19 hours ago
@chapinnnn that's y frosburg uses the vk45 from the titan n toyota guys usin the 1uz out the ls400
andylex about 19 hours ago
2JZ
parkeringsbiljett about 19 hours ago
2JZ
tmshift about 19 hours ago
Ls1
i2amoan about 19 hours ago
2JZ!!!
chapinnnn about 19 hours ago
@rob_slappo v8 is the easy way to get power just power but some one who knows a lot about cars will build there 2j or rb26 ! End of discussion I win
anthonyisd3ad about 19 hours ago
V8
yunglennon about 19 hours ago
Rb26
yunglennon about 19 hours ago
@pea_nut_buttertoast wrong.
rumaidhi about 19 hours ago
Daigo Saito just won #formulaD with 1200hp 2JZ
jdmcolliemane about 19 hours ago
I just like turbos emoji
ap1je about 19 hours ago
2JZ MANE
eldest_anjari about 19 hours ago
2jz because its more unique
steven_garagelifecartel about 19 hours ago
Ls hands down
rodnee_moenadi about 19 hours ago
B16 no doubt
haydenleong about 19 hours ago
EJ
calsoyto about 19 hours ago
V8 with twins!
uae_drift_force about 19 hours ago
i try the two engine in my X s14. ls is lighter than 2jz. but the 2jz is amazing and crazy
goin_sil80 about 19 hours ago
Single cam ka for the win
quick10 about 19 hours ago
V8
steeznuts about 19 hours ago
2jz
the_original_romero about 19 hours ago
2jz
the_original_romero about 19 hours ago
I agree with @goin_sil80
goin_sil80 about 19 hours ago
Best motor for not caring @the_original_romero
rob_slappo about 19 hours ago
Tell that to the likes of some of todays drifters, the grassroots ones stay traditional where as others go for a more more cylinders, look at vaugh, frosberg, dai, and a few others that do driftin. The are all v8 @chapinnnn, there others that do either the 7m, 1jz, 2jz, rb20, rb25, 2b26, 13b, 20b, ca18 sr20 and even 4afe and the ka. Hence I WIN!
dorsey87 about 19 hours ago
2jz hands down
the_original_romero about 19 hours ago
@goin_sil80 its good motor take a hell of a beating good thing you know.. Not many ppl know about them..
fidanaay about 19 hours ago
Anything but V8
danielfourgste about 19 hours ago
Why do all these retards start naming other motors ?? Go kill yourselfs
goin_sil80 about 19 hours ago
Gotta rock stock
itsdivi about 19 hours ago
LS2 6.0 V8 6speed T56 tranny for the win!
sleepyface14 about 18 hours ago
2JZ, Daigo proved that
labelmenone about 18 hours ago
V8
psykomutt about 18 hours ago
It depend on your driving style. V8s are easier to drift with. Power all throughout the rpms.
aburnedmemory about 18 hours ago
2jz-gte for sure
ereth322 about 18 hours ago
VQ
emil_s_knapperholen about 18 hours ago
2JZ-GTE <3
ohmiaababy about 18 hours ago
2jz baby!
sexyassnerd about 18 hours ago
V8 but i love the sound of a 2jz...
lilwreck1 about 18 hours ago
Lets put it this way. If you're lazy, broke as *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* and you're chasing power with Pennies. V8. If you're humble, willing to pay the cost to be a boss, want a unique sounding car, want to be able to Drift more than red necks can and be more universal Whist getting the attention of girls, noobs and have a sausage fest every time you pop your hood. 2JZ IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE
synster about 18 hours ago
@lilwreck1 lol so true
tytydelz about 18 hours ago
All u are saying Daigo proved a point or just look at Daigo but he didn't just win because of his 2jz .....JR would have won if he hadnt crashed
mackaroni_510 about 18 hours ago
The size of a motor has nothing to do with drifting, how is this even a question?
therealnap0le0n about 17 hours ago
@lilwreck1 yea because lsx motor swaps are cheap, oh that is right they also don't make power either..... oh damn a vh45 with itb is super affordable too. 1UZ-FE motor swaps aren't sexy either? 2jz #dickrider
a33_max about 17 hours ago
@lilwreck1. Ahmen Well said
emoneybagz91 about 17 hours ago
Ls1 Ls2 Ls3.... Let's keep it American
egeise213 about 17 hours ago
For a bit more money the twin turbo Audi fsi V10 From the a6 estate!
dookie_rick about 16 hours ago
@nyinmia serious business
lilwreck1 about 16 hours ago
@therealnap0le0n then ride it then, VH, VK, Y (Nissan), UR, UZ, V (Toyota), 8A8 (Mitsu), M60, M62, S62 (BMW), M119, M113 (Merc) Aren't being used and when they are they gain respect as seen fit. So don't talk out ya *Censored**Censored**Censored* lil Hommie. Crappy *Censored**Censored**Censored* LS motors and a few fresh out the crate alongside 5.0 engines are what's being swapped. *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* there's a car that's running a junkyard find Tahoe V8 with about 85k on it that was just swap and go to keep cost low so I know what I'm saying. And when it comes to power V8s are pretty much maxed on what they can do, boosted motors can handle way more than what they start out with stock. #JustSaying @synster @a33_max thx.
lilwreck1 about 16 hours ago
@tytydelz then next year he shouldn't crash then. Common sense should've told him to stay alert on that transition. I mean it was only taking hostages....... Lemmi see...... ALL NIGHT! Watch all Daigo's runs carefully and you'll see he was very cautious when approaching that section of the track
tytydelz about 16 hours ago
@lilwreck1 why u bringin up Daigo? I'm not bashing him, we are talking motors here not the racers themselves
honda_head85 about 16 hours ago
Good question
ikre8noyz about 15 hours ago
2 JZGTE with a single Turbo for drifting and Drag Racing,
callmejdm about 14 hours ago
1JZ-GTE VVTi #FTW #*Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*WithMe
jdmjames89 about 14 hours ago
2jz simply for the sound... And v8 swaps are too ready
jdmjames89 about 14 hours ago
*easy
therealnap0le0n about 14 hours ago
@lilwreck1 never seen an ls motor on boost. Hardly maxed out
lilwreck1 about 13 hours ago
Just followed suit after you sir. Lol. Check your first comment. @tytydelz
lilwreck1 about 13 hours ago
Why yes I have @therealnap0le0n they don't quite last as long though
tytydelz about 13 hours ago
@lilwreck1 I was pertaining to the fact JR has a v8 yet he was still doing very well in his car before he crashed and the v8 would have won formula drift
lilwreck1 about 12 hours ago
Oh yeah. I give you that. But in all honesty I don't count JTP, and JR. Mustangs come V8 factory. So they get a G pass.
lilwreck1 about 12 hours ago
@tytydelz
oldtrdcars about 12 hours ago
2jz all day
bfncrew about 11 hours ago
Turbo LSX nuff said
iluvsilvias about 11 hours ago
After this weekend, I'd say 2JZ. What, what? 1200 HP?
tpr_barry about 10 hours ago
2jz hands down, I know first hand
brandyboo07 about 7 hours ago
2jz all the way. ;D
edisonabarca about 6 hours ago
2jz. American V8 sucks
hotexhaustsandtyresmoke about 5 hours ago
@fredricaasbo 2JZ managed to beat Shane Lynch's V8 in the BDC so speaks for itself really...
vince_fullington about an hour ago
He'll... 2JZ vs v12?? 2J still rocks it emoji
driftingcom 22 minutes ago
#drift #drifting #driftingcom #formulad #formuladrift #jdm #2jz #supra
pauliepesos 7 minutes ago
2j all day