Is 2 Tires Off/Wall Contact really worth ZERO points?

[my 1 88 u]

Seemes like you guys are really missing the question but hey its cool

competitors scrape the wall at ebisu all day long but its never considered a zero...

The question I'm trying to convey here is what shouldnt it just be a substantial point deduction... zero points is a knockut punch in qual and tandem.... 2 wheels off equals knock out punch? We've all seen people bash into walls and recover, we have also seen people go 2 wheels into gravel, grass, and still recover nicely as well.

Again 2 wheels off = knock out punch even though line is only 30% of the score.

At Ebisu if they hit the wall and lose drift it's a zero. If there was a wall there two tires off would be a severe crash, zero points.

[Slapshotnerd]

Fans wanted more black-and-white calls in drifting, so this is FD's response. The details were explained via the drivers meeting, and all drivers knew what was going on starting with the morning practice on Saturday and continuing thru the tandems. 2 Tires + Yellow Line = 0. Simple enough.

Things like steering corrections / shallow angle / shallow line are all still very subjective, and much harder to quantify. There was some talk about a 'strike' system for tandem where each 'correction' is given a strike and 3 strikes is a zero, but that system wasn't in place this weekend.

[Bebop]

I wouldnt want to take a test that had a select 2 questions that if guessed wrong would cancel out the WHOLE grade.

Isnt this why we score the 4 cireterias judged individualy?

At Ebisu if they hit the wall and lose drift it's a zero. If there was a wall there two tires off would be a severe crash, zero points.

So what happens when they go 2 off and maintain at fuji or suzuka? Oh yeah NOTHING

I think 2 off with maintain of drift should be a deduction... but not a knock out punch....not a knive to the throat.... and not a landmine. Especialy in a series that doesnt provide a knock out punch for the competitors them selves "stay real close to your oppenent and make no mistakes and you might win.".

I saw alot of drivers being taken out by the judges this weekend and not by their oppenents

[LPOneThree]

I think 2 tires off = 0 is better than putting a wall up and watching drivers slam into it and wreck their cars, that happens enough in Seattle already

[Lifer]

I think 2 tires off = 0 is better than putting a wall up and watching drivers slam into it and wreck their cars, that happens enough in Seattle already

bingo pretty much can't argue with that.

[Bebop]

Daigo Saito goes 2 wheels off at Jersey and wins no one says anything.

JTP goes 2 wheels off at Seattle and looses you guys say its a good call.

JTP spins against Daigo...Daigos car was broke/Judges told him to do it

Daigo spins against Conrad... Conrad is pulling some sort of "F*ckery" and is a "P U S S Y"

[stedriftward]

I get your point Bebop....Only explanation is people obviously like Daigo and want him to win the championship. Speaking for myself I think a piece of me wants Daigo to win the championship because it will solidify him as the closest to being a true "World Champion" having taken the Asia and Japanese championships already.

So yes I am biased.

[MonkeySlide]

Daigo Saito goes 2 wheels off at Jersey and wins no one says anything.

JTP goes 2 wheels off at Seattle and looses you guys say its a good call.

JTP spins against Daigo...Daigos car was broke/Judges told him to do it

Daigo spins against Conrad... Conrad is pulling some sort of "F*ckery" and is a "P U S S Y"

I think the problem here is trying to define a "mistake" versus an out right violation. The way I understand things the "line" (yellow line) defines the course. If you put more than one tire outside of the defined course then you are considered going "off course". Going off course has ALWAYS resulted in a 0 score no matter what the driver does afterward. Once you go off the course none of the other "judging criteria" matters.

In Basketball if your feet are out of bounds when you shoot they are not going to give you the points if the ball still goes in. This is the same principal.

Its like that in Atlanta remember? One tire in the dirt is ok, but two is "off course" thus a goose egg.

When there is not dirt or walls to define a course then lines need to be used and at some point, to maintain integrity of said course there has to be a "point of no return". Which according to the judges is two-wheels out of bounds.

I do not think other instances where drivers put two wheels off were "OK" to the judges, I just do not think they really caught what happened until it was too late and they made their call.

[vvtisupra]

Daigo Saito goes 2 wheels off at Jersey and wins no one says anything.

JTP goes 2 wheels off at Seattle and looses you guys say its a good call.

JTP spins against Daigo...Daigos car was broke/Judges told him to do it

Daigo spins against Conrad... Conrad is pulling some sort of "F*ckery" and is a "P U S S Y"

In Jersey it was said that line could be sacrificed due to proximity. In Washington it was defined that 2 tires off would be a definate 0. 1 wheel would be a point deduction.


Daigo spins against Conrad... Conrad is pulling some sort of "F*ckery" and is a "P U S S Y"

The f*ckery was probably in reference to the 2 false starts that were not a false start. Heat soaking and wasting daigo's tires.

[my 1 88 u]

Daigo Saito goes 2 wheels off at Jersey and wins no one says anything.

JTP goes 2 wheels off at Seattle and looses you guys say its a good call.

JTP spins against Daigo...Daigos car was broke/Judges told him to do it

Daigo spins against Conrad... Conrad is pulling some sort of "F*ckery" and is a "P U S S Y"

I'm a fan of Daigo but I am a fair person. Last round I posted that I thought Daigo should have been given a zero for going off course. My comment about Conrad's f*ckery was the starting line antics, not Daigo spinning and earning his zero.

My only major judges criticism this round is Aasbo given a zero for avoiding a crash by altering his line and running off course.

[Bebop]

My argument is the punishment does not fit the crime. Once again line is only a part of the score, why is a MILD violation of line worth ZERO points. I thought the call of OMT between Daigo and Conrad in Jersey was fair one since IMO the off course did not disrupt or boost his momentum in drift. Conrad could not maintain ANY proximity so the runs were even....IMO the call was fair. Once again Line is only 30% of the score so is it fair to zero someones WHOLE score out for a MILD violation of 2 wheels off course?

THE PUNISHMENT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.

If Daigo's car was overheating and had bald tires after Conrads restarts why didnt his team protest or at least call 5 minutes to water the car down and change the tires? I would have never gone through with the battle if I felt my car wasn't right especialy if none of my runs were going to be judged. The battle never happened there for my run was a exhibition, I don't see any reason why his team couldn't reset.

In Basketball if your feet are out of bounds when you shoot they are not going to give you the points if the ball still goes in. This is the same principal.

I do not think other instances where drivers put two wheels off were "OK" to the judges, I just do not think they really caught what happened until it was too late and they made their call.

It would be the same principle if the NBA ref would took away ALL points from the team for stepping out of bounds. If a boxer lands a low blow they take away one point from one round and the round would be scored 10-8 or 9-9, he has 11 other rounds to make it up. They don't stop the whole fight and DQ the competitor.

The official rules do not indicate 2 wheels off = 0 points. I think it actually says 3 or 4, what they actually do is go to every single round and dictate new rules and go from there. But no they never say its OK to have 2 wheels off but in some cases like Daigo in Jersey they only substracted a fraction of the points instead of all and IMO thats fair.

I get your point Bebop....Only explanation is people obviously like Daigo and want him to win the championship. Speaking for myself I think a piece of me wants Daigo to win the championship because it will solidify him as the closest to being a true "World Champion" having taken the Asia and Japanese championships already.

So yes I am biased.

I been on this forum for years and been going to drift events even longer. I've been attending D1 events since 03 and if you ask me I'm a right wing conservative when it comes to drifting meaning if it ain't Japanese it probably ain't right. And it would mean the world to me if Daigo Saito wins the championship and proves Japanese superiority over the American series. But if the sport isn't being fair and honest as a whole I'm gonna call it how I see it. I'm sorry if I'm the only level headed non biased person here lmao.

[vvtisupra]

you're not allowed to change tires between tandem runs . They let gushi do it because he ran the whole track because they didn;t have a flagger stop him before he ran the track. In hindsight daigo should have ran and let the judges decide. But thats up to him and the team.

As far as the two tire rule. The judges made it a big note during drivers meeting that 2 tires off would be a zero they said the same for doors hoods and trunks/hatches opening would be a zero. Those are simple rules to follow. If it was a big issue then the drivers would have questioned it during drivers meeting. They even extended that run out area for the drivers making a second yellow line.

This i think by far has been the best judged event. The judges said what they wanted and they stood by it.

[Bebop]

The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Again line is only 30% of the score. I wonder what ASD thinks of this.

[MonkeySlide]

My argument is the punishment does not fit the crime. Once again line is only a part of the score, why is a MILD violation of line worth ZERO points. I thought the call of OMT between Daigo and Conrad in Jersey was fair one since IMO the off course did not disrupt or boost his momentum in drift. Conrad could not maintain ANY proximity so the runs were even....IMO the call was fair. Once again Line is only 30% of the score so is it fair to zero someones WHOLE score out for a MILD violation of 2 wheels off course?

THE PUNISHMENT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME.

This is your mistake. You are treating going OFF COURSE as a "mild" violation and it certainly is not a "mild" violation. Going off course is not the same as not being as close to the clipping points or having too much of a cap between "you" (POV of driver) and the case car.

Going off course means you are LEAVING THE AREA IN WHICH THE JUDGING CRITERA IS VALID. If you are not in a place that can be judged then you get NO JUDGEMENT, thus a big fat smelly stinking zero.

The official rules do not indicate 2 wheels off = 0 points. I think it actually says 3 or 4, what they actually do is go to every single round and dictate new rules and go from there. But no they never say its OK to have 2 wheels off

Second mistake.

This is taken straight from the Formula Drift website under the "Judging Info" page:

http://www.formulad.com/info/judging-info.php

Spins, major under-steer or push, or having two (2) tires off-course at any point during the pass results in an automatic zero (0) score.

That has always been the rule. Two off and you are done. EOS.

Now, I am not disagreeing with you if your argument is that the judges are not consistant with this rule because god knows juding consistancy has been an issue in Formula Drift since day one.

However, if you are sticking to the argument that two wheels off course should not result in a zero per the rules then you are wrong there.

The question of "SHOULD" that be the case, well that is debatable. Personally I think dipping two off should be a zero because if you allow that type of thing then the integrity of the course becomes irrelevant.

[Bebop]

Monkeyslide

The rules I posted in my original post are from the rulebook itself. The rules on the website are clearly dated, they still claim the scores are averaged on

Quote from the website

Each of three (3) judges gives a score out of 100 possible points, and the three scores are averaged for each lap.

Quote from the Rule Book

C) Off Course
Unless otherwise specified during the judging meetings, if at any time 4 tires or more are off course during a run, the driver will be given a score of “0”.

They even extended that run out area for the drivers making a second yellow line.

I don't believe the JTPs right rear tire never crossed the second yellow line

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