Is 2 Tires Off/Wall Contact really worth ZERO points?

[vvtisupra]

Rocksteady I get what you are saying , but the judges made it apparent in the drivers meeting. thus its not really a punishment to a crime its more like a rule that wasn't followed

[MonkeySlide]

Monkeyslide

The rules I posted in my original post are from the rulebook itself. The rules on the website are clearly dated, they still claim the scores are averaged on

The way the score is calcuated might be dated but everything else is still current. Straightening out, spinning, and going off course is still and always has been a zero.

I don't believe the JTPs right rear tire never crossed the second yellow line

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This is a different argument entirely. Here I can see your point. It is very hard to tell if the rear tires went beyond the second yellow line in the video.

To me it looks like he barely kept it inside the line.

So if you want to say JTP never went off course in the first place I might be with you there. But still, going off course can, is, and should result in zero points.

[Bebop]

Rocksteady I get what you are saying , but the judges made it apparent in the drivers meeting. thus its not really a punishment to a crime its more like a rule that wasn't followed

So why don't they make the penalty like every other rule

If a driver doesn't have the preferred angle ding his angle points

If a driver doesn't have the preferred speed ding his speed points

If a driver doesn't have the preferred style ding his style points

Booby trap, knife to the throat, knock out punch, drift cancer....

[Bebop]

Monkeyslide

The video is exactly why I'm posing this question

Where a driver goes "2 off" like that he is neither gaining or loosing momentum. The action is exactly the same and flow of the run is not obstructed that's why I really ask if its worth getting zero points.

I do believe in a penalty for these types of mistakes but considering once again its not a advantage or disadvantage for the driver I believe the penalty should be much less. If my entry speed in 55 MPH and the average is 60 they are not going to give me a zero but I'm not getting my full speed points..

[vvtisupra]

So why don't they make the penalty like every other rule

If a driver doesn't have the preferred angle ding his angle points

If a driver doesn't have the preferred speed ding his speed points

If a driver doesn't have the preferred style ding his style points

Booby trap, knife to the throat, knock out punch, drift cancer....

Because none of what you suggested could be put into an all or none clause like being out of the line. Angle, speed , style are all based on a vehicles capabilies and thus would be measured on a point scale.

[Slapshotnerd]

A couple things to note:

- The '2 tires off = 0' rule was in effect for tandem as part of the increased criteria which was handed out during the Saturday morning meeting.

- The judging criteria is constantly evolving and being modified at each track. At some tracks (Atlanta, Seattle, etc), 2 tires off is a zero, while at others, it is a major deduction. For this round, it was a major deduction during qualifying and a zero for tandem. The FD website isn't updated every round to reflect the specific criteria per track.

- As I stated in the feedback thread for Evergreen, the judges want to see a driver out-tandem his opponent in drift. That means both drivers should enter the first corner as close as possible (not a 5 car gap entering the first corner due to hp differences). They also don't want drivers trying to take a 'tricky' line to make it difficult for the car behind him to follow. This 2-tires-off thing is part of the effort that is being made to get rid of the tactics and games that some drivers have played in the past.

There are no 'deductions' or 'percentage of score' in tandem. All driving and mistakes are account for and a decision on who moves on is made. There is talk about having a 'strike' system where drivers get a 'strike' for each correction or criteria they fail to meet, and 3 strikes results in a zero. But that system isn't finalized or in place just yet.

Again, there's a 'spirit of drifting' that has been lost by some drivers in an effort to achieve results. Drifting is very much a gentleman's sport, you see that all the time in the pits with teams helping each other out to ensure their competitor can make the race (IE Bergenholtz Racing helping T McQ out in Atlanta with a fuel pump relay even though that was their opponent). The judges are trying to help establish rules so that drivers aren't leveraging HP advantage / other competitive advantages of their car to win rounds. Fans wants to see door-to-door tandem as much as possible, and unfortunately, since drivers can't always provide that on their own, these extra criteria are being established to help encourage door-to-door competitive tandem battles.

[Bebop]

A couple things to note:

- The '2 tires off = 0' rule was in effect for tandem as part of the increased criteria which was handed out during the Saturday morning meeting.



There are no 'deductions' or 'percentage of score' in tandem. All driving and mistakes are account for and a decision on who moves on is made. There is talk about having a 'strike' system where drivers get a 'strike' for each correction or criteria they fail to meet, and 3 strikes results in a zero. But that system isn't finalized or in place just yet.

Are you sure this was just implemented on Saturday? Daigo and Dai were both given 0s on their qualifying scored on Friday for 2 tires off (Dai might have tapped a wall cant remember right now)

That 3 strikes rules sounds extremely fair.

[vvtisupra]

yah bro what drivers meeting are you sitting in on.

The judges also said the slower car should sacrafice angle to catch up to the lead car and take those point deduction vs being out of tandem. They never said anything about the faster car needs to PACE the slower car entering the bank.

[my 1 88 u]

I don't believe the JTPs right rear tire never crossed the second yellow line

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JTPs right rear tire did not cross the second yellow line. Why isn't there a line spotter there a la D1?

[Cavi Mike]

I believe in getting a zero for hitting the wall or going two-wheels off if you're the lead car. Both of those scrub off enormous amounts of speed and it shouldn't be expected that the chase car be able to do follow that. If you're the chase car and you can manage to hit a wall or run off course yet still maintain drift AND keep on the door of the lead car, you should get friggin bonus points if you ask me.

[Slapshotnerd]

JTPs right rear tire did not cross the second yellow line. Why isn't there a line spotter there a la D1?

Where would you put the spotter in this situation?

The camera angle that was used for the live stream (end of the power alley) probably had the best view, and the call from the judges was made after multiple replays, slowed down to 25% of the original speed.

If you put the spotter on the other side (by the crowd) he would be blinded by the smoke.

yes, the on-car camera gives us a view that may have determined a different outcome. But that isn't something you can use a 'line spotter' for (and it won't even give you the proper view in every run, it all is affected by how close the chase car is).