(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D - Evergreen Speedway - Monroe WA 2012

[INFO]

(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D - Evergreen Speedway - Monroe WA 2012

Please post your feedback on this thread.

[vvtisupra]

I would like to get conrads explanation for botching the starts and why was daigo told to pace if there wasn't any pacing cone?

Even IF Conrad wasn't playing games there are many factors that play into the unfair advantage.

1. Leading run you are suppose to run a qualifying line.

Daigo was told to pace conrad. Conrad *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* foots it off the line, daigo has to enter the bank 10-20 mph slower than his qualifying runs. This places the driver in an unfamiliar territory.

2. Botch start
2 times a false start. Daigo was pushing tire life on 2 runs due to his gangster tire speeds on the bank. Add 2 extra hard launches and he's on slicks by the end of the run at which he spins.

2 times false start also heat soaks daigos motor, turbo and intercooler

2 times false starts for no reason makes daigo think wtf. Daigo's english is limited and he wasn;t given any explanation as to why he needs to restart and pace.

3. Is it a false start? I would like to see video. I doubt daigo jumps the line.


other than that. I think judging was its best at this event.

Also, I want to see chelsea run his E46

[my 1 88 u]

What he said/\. And what was that Aasbo sh*t about? I mean come on already, if the lead car crashes, the chase car should be forgiven for avoiding the crash.

[Conrad G]

I didn't botch any of my starts. On the first start I knew in the first 10 feet that I was going to get smoked into the first turn. The second start was slightly better on his part but still was running away about 40 feet into it. Obviously the third start was acceptable. All three starts were as fast as my car can accelerate in a straight line, no excessive wheel spin or miss shifts.

The lead car isn't supposed to drag race to the first corner and leave the chase car behind. The judges tell us all the time its up to both drivers to get there at the same time. If the chase driver feels that isn't going to happen then we have to be stopped by the cone they put out. Almost all the drivers make sure the chase car is on their door about half way to the first turn before they lay into it. Tony B has 200+ more Hp than me but there were no issues when I ran against him.

Most likely there was a miss understanding in translation of what was expected from Daigo.

I hope you guys can understand why I stopped. If I was 5 car lengths back when we initiate I would be at fault for not being close enough which would have handed the win over to Diago.

-Conrad

(Sorry for any typos, sent on an iPhone)

[Slapshotnerd]

Conrad explained it well.

Although there is no pace cone, the drivers were asked to communicate with each other and enter into the first turn at the same time. They were told in the drivers meeting that if a driver didn't feel that the start was fair and would allow them to enter together, they could stop before that cone on the front straight. We saw Kenny Moen use this against Gushi in the top 32, then Conrad used it twice against Daigo. This was something that was outlined very clearly in the drivers meeting - if the tandem battle already has 3 to 5 car lengths of distance between the cars before the first corner, it's not very interesting to watch. Tandem drifting is about out-drifting your opponent while sideways, not out-gunning your opponent to the first turn.

Overall, this was another great event in Seattle! The crowd was absolutely nuts! There were several good close battles that could have gone OMT or even gone the opposite way that they went had one of the drivers not thrown 2-tires off, but these rules were clearly defined in the drivers meeting and judged consistently thru all top 32 tandems.

The weather was absolutely perfect! not as humid as the East Coast, a nice cool breeze to clear the smoke, you couldn't ask for better conditions.

[vvtisupra]

moen did it against gushi because he felt he jump the light.

You can't judge a person's distance based off of a 10 ft jump. Daigo never jumped the light. Infact he let conrad get the jump.

The judges said they would like to see both cars enter at the same time but realised some cars are slower than others thats why they said they wanted to see the chase person sacrafice angle to catch up for proximatey and get docked points rather than being "out of tandem"




Hence the OMT with angelo and yoshioka.

Judges also said they would use the qualifying entry speed as a reference to tandem runs. SO WHATS THE POINT OF PACING THE SLOWER CAR.


If this pacing idea was in effect. what stops someone from going to running a high torque low hp v8 on skinny little tires and just go at a super slow speed?

doesn't make sense.

Noone else was required to PACE the "slower" car.

If this was the case then why have 800 hp nascar motors ? If you want equal speed have everyone drive stock KA s13's on 15's

dumb !

[Slapshotnerd]

moen did it against gushi because he felt he jump the light.

You can't judge a person's distance based off of a 10 ft jump. Daigo never jumped the light. Infact he let conrad get the jump.

The judges said they would like to see both cars enter at the same time but realised some cars are slower than others thats why they said they wanted to see the chase person sacrafice angle to catch up for proximatey and get docked points rather than being "out of tandem"

Hence the OMT with angelo and yoshioka.

Judges also said they would use the qualifying entry speed as a reference to tandem runs. SO WHATS THE POINT OF PACING THE SLOWER CAR.


If this pacing idea was in effect. what stops someone from going to running a high torque low hp v8 on skinny little tires and just go at a super slow speed?

doesn't make sense.

Noone else was required to PACE the "slower" car.

If this was the case then why have 800 hp nascar motors ? If you want equal speed have everyone drive stock KA s13's on 15's

dumb !

Yoshioka vs Angelo didn't go OMT. There was a re-run of Yoshioka's lead run which was granted due to a misunderstanding by RS*R and Yoshioka.

Also, it was highlighted on Saturday that sacrificing angle to gain proximity would be considered a deduction, and the chase car will need to gain angle once the proximity has been closed. running shallow angle to stay close to the car in front of you and not re-adding angle would be considered a mistake.

Again, there wasn't a 'pace' cone, but a turnaround cone if you felt that you weren't going to be able to catch up and enter at the same time. The biggest stress in the drivers meeting was for drivers to enter together so that the tandem matchup is even until initiation.

[Bebop]

Why don't they just have a pace cone since the drivers aren't doing a good enough job of communicating with each other?

[Lifer]

Why don't they just have a pace cone since the drivers aren't doing a good enough job of communicating with each other?

Not sure why.

I thought it was a pace cone based in the past events. The only thing that is making me agree with all of it is the fact that the drivers were made fully aware of the rules and rule changes going into this round. So they all understood what that cone was, and what they had to do to win and not get a zero. Someone found a loophole in the cone rule, and legitimately applied the rule to his favor. Will they let this happen again? I don't know, but I don't think so. Otherwise this will be happening much more often.

I am not upset about it, and Its not like someone deliberately or accidentally broke an understood rule, then the judges turned a blind eye. Plus, depending on how you look at it, Formula Drift reserves the right to change the rules how they see fit between rounds to improve the show, and yet be fair to the drivers. This is no surprise to the drivers, but equally frustrating I'm sure.

These kinds of situations are what makes a judges job difficult, but the drivers and judges made an understanding of what is expected of them. Its simple black and white, do or die rules. I honestly don't blame them just to make a clear/simple criteria that the judges can back up. Now its not like I'm saying they are stone cold on the rules. Even the line rule with Jeff Jones. They honored a few protests and favored a mutually beneficial ruling on both cases. This is not a perfect sport, but they have got to get some help in solidifying their judging criteria for every round. Now for what I have seen change in Judging from R4 to R5 is a dramatic improvement.

Formula Drift will NEVER satisfy everyone, but looking at it outside the box, its not where it could be either. The changes are to improve the show, and try to be as fair as possible to all drivers. Something happens that they didn't think of so they change it for the next round so it can't be abused again. They are learning how to make it right. I think in year 10, FD is going into some major changes after everything that has happened the last few seasons.

[Conrad G]

There is no loophole in the "cone rule", It's actually pretty simple. If the chase driver gets punked off the line by the lead driver tryin to run away on the straight before the first turn, the chase driver can stop before the cone in order to get a fair run to the first corner. If Diago would have done it a third time then guess what? I would have stopped again.

It's pretty easy to tell in the first 10 feet if the lead car is already going 5mph faster than you.

The comment about the skinny tires and v8 a few posts ago doesn't make sense. Since the judging begins when you start drifting, the skinny tires would make you tremendously slow around the course and not able to keep up when following. I think it would make more sense to have a car set up with a ton of forward bite so no one can keep up behind you. You could even use it to your advantage in the run up to the first turn but the judges have the "cone rule" in place to not let that happen.

I guess the point I'm trying to get across here is I did only what the judges asked of me. There is no trickery or mind games going on and those people that know me know I would never do that crap. Besides, Daigo is one of the most cool, calm, and collective drivers in the field. Doing a restart for him is nothing.

-Conrad

[Lifer]

There is no loophole in the "cone rule", It's actually pretty simple. If the chase driver gets punked off the line by the lead driver tryin to run away on the straight before the first turn, the chase driver can stop before the cone in order to get a fair run to the first corner. If Diago would have done it a third time then guess what? I would have stopped again.

It's pretty easy to tell in the first 10 feet if the lead car is already going 5mph faster than you.

The comment about the skinny tires and v8 a few posts ago doesn't make sense. Since the judging begins when you start drifting, the skinny tires would make you tremendously slow around the course and not able to keep up when following. I think it would make more sense to have a car set up with a ton of forward bite so no one can keep up behind you. You could even use it to your advantage in the run up to the first turn but the judges have the "cone rule" in place to not let that happen.

I guess the point I'm trying to get across here is I did only what the judges asked of me. There is no trickery or mind games going on and those people that know me know I would never do that crap. Besides, Daigo is one of the most cool, calm, and collective drivers in the field. Doing a restart for him is nothing.

-Conrad

I'm guessing that is where the confusion lies in. You are saying Daigo jumped to fast from the start twice, and you are right to restart as allowed by the rules. I wouldn't think it would take a third time to get it right, but I'm not driving, so its a minimal point from me. I understand why you restarted based on what you said happen. You have ran against him enough times to know if Daigo is going to rocket away without you into the first corner. The definition of pacing as the fans interpret it, and the rule of pacing the FD judges gave you, and how it was associated with the cone in the past is what is throwing people off. This is the first event I know of it being called the "restart cone". Was this something it has always been? It is just a gentleman's rule to pace to that cone or further? Was Goodin following Aasbo a reasonable pace? It would help with some example to clarify what exactly the lead car is asked to do by the judges. How much of this is subjective? I am thinking at what point is it ok to go full throttle coming into the first turn when the chase car can't match your speed from the line? Thank you for commenting here, and your inside drivers input on this is greatly appreciated.

[vvtisupra]

Why would the judges say the sacrifice of angle to gain proximity if both cars are to enter Pacing each other. Let's face it you were playing games. in the video its safe to see ur entry speeds are completely different cant wait to see in car of that run. Your throttle input tells it all. Why would you the "slower car" partial throttle any time off the line?

[LPOneThree]

Everyone is so focused on the fact Conrad took advantage of the restart cone, and based on the booing from the fans you'd think Formula D would get rid of it to make their fans happy. The fact of the matter is, as was previously explained, Conrad did nothing wrong and not only that, his actions resulted in by far the best tandem battle of the night. Daigo spinning had nothing to do with the start. Formula Ds highest priority is competitive tandems and if it comes to having a restart for the sake of a awesome tandem the tandem will win every time and I agree with that. Not only that Conrad probably would have won anyway, the judges were not giving alot of OMTs(which I thought they could have, but am glad they are being more definitive) and Conrad's lead run on the bank was insane with the rest of their two runs being comparable (minus the Daigo spin). I think Daigo is a class act for turning around both times(just like he did for Walker in ATL). All in all a great event, saw it in person.

[LPOneThree]

http://www.wreckedmagazine.com/galle...le20120347.jpg

[LPOneThree]

Also, other feedback, I like Ryan Sage giving explanations rather than the actual judges, he is much more clear, concise, and detailed about giving insight into the judges justifications and decisions