(ADDRESSING RUMORS) ASD 2013 Season

[5150 Cruiser]

So 5150 from what I gather and correct me if I am wrong....Would you agree that drifting is merely a stepping stone for "real" motorsports that generate more profit and opportunity? And if so would you agree that drifting and possibly Formula D will never be large enough to generate a lot of profit for drivers so they will continue to move on to "real" motorsports?

Just curious?

To some extent i agree. Like it or not, drifting is still considered one of the lower tear forms of motor sports in the U.S. by many in the industry. So for some, yes. It is a stepping stone to advance their career. But that doesn't mean you can't be successful and make drifting a career. I believe JR, JTP, and others are full time drivers.
But in all honesty, unless you podium every race, or at least a good majority of the season, your not going to last long and at some point are going to have to start looking for other opportunities.
Will FD one day be large enough to support most of their drivers full time? Maybe one day. But as of right now, no. But it really is going to end up depending on the drivers just like any motor sports. If you want a full time ride, then you need to work your *Censored**Censored**Censored* off and prove your worth the money.

Only reason I ask is because obviously Tanner for example decided to keep his rally career going but abandoned the idea that one day Formula D would be large enough to pay the bills. Granted there were schedule clashes but IDK seems it came down to rally or drift as far as his career is concerned and he chose rally.

Just thinking out loud.

I agree 100%.

LOL, all I hear is numbers and dollars signs from FD. At least my opinions have real facts, names behind them.

Because that's the reality of the situation. If you don't want to accept that then that's not FD's fault.

Drivers aren't numbers to me and sponsor arent just dollar signs. Too busy to make a big long response sorry.

Right. Any other day of the weeks you would have found the time to make your point. But in the end as you and I both said..

Ford wanted Tanner in Rally, and Dodge wanted Sam in Off Road.

...And there's your answer.

[Bebop]

@5150

I put 75% of the of the blame on the Sponsors and the other 25% on FD and the American drift media. I get frustrated when driver A has a better resume then driver B but driver B is getting sponsors supper while driver A gets nothing. I'm not afraid to say it, I was extremely bitter when Nishida was almost left without a ride all together when Dean Kearney and EOS were getting rides in championship proven cars. And the drifting media did not say sh*t, FD promotes mostly drivers who have sponsors that support the actual series, and the drifting media is too busy talking about what no name driver got busted for drug possesion. "I can't think of any racing body that were more than half of the field is compeditive 100%" that's a really vague statement that has a lot of loopholes in and around it but when it comes to FD I think it would be a hell of alot more competitive and most of all alot more exciting if series still had all their podium proven drivers.

Your comments about how you dont belive investors are leaving drifting are really ironic. You think Sam just really wanted to go and do off road and thats why Dodge abadanond the drift program? Can I sell you a bridge? If dodge wanted to stay in drifting they would of stuck someone else in the Challenger and kept the good times rolling. They obviously wanted out of FD and Sam the career oriented driver he is just went where ever they told him. Did I mention Sam OWNED the team in its final years? Its kind of funny how he does not drive for Dodge in Rally car but still can get more support to drive over there then over here. Noticed how Rockstar came into FD supporting Dai, then went with Tanner... and left with tanner and hasnt been back since? Notice how Redbull was with Rhys since day 2, then became FD official drink, then sponsord the world championship, then left as FD's official drink, then sponsord Gardella, then left both teams becoming out of the series all together?

I'm not saying at all that FD is going to die or is in great strife. But if these facts don't raise red flags you have to be naive as all hell or just trying to play damage control. But what I'm trying to find out is why these companies choose to leave in the first place? What was not right? Were they not getting enough exposure, if memory serves me right Red Bull left as a series sponsor right when FD switched networks over to Versus. I'm not trying shed some sort of negative light on the series, this stuff scares the crap out of me as a fan of the sport in general.

Oh and this just popped in my head as well.

Remember that Stephan Verdier guy, one of the brokest drivers in FD showing up to events with no crew just him and his car. Had a few different well known sponsors but none of them seemed to stick. He managed a win back in like 09, Left FD in 2011 for Rally still as a Privateer. A little less then 2 years later and I heard the guy aint doing too bad for himself, driving a factory back Hyundai sponsored by Disney I heard.

[my 1 88 u]

Good questions and drift publications suck. There are about 20 Japanese drivers that disappeared and no one asks the questions.

[D1 DRIFTER]

pointless arguing over the internet.

[MonkeySlide]

pointless arguing over the internet.

Best gif ever.

[Bebop]

Asking why drivers and sponsors are no longer in the series is beating a dead horse but we still keep having the same V8 debate for the last 6 years? Gotcha!

[e_lunatic]

Asking why drivers and sponsors are no longer in the series is beating a dead horse but we still keep having the same V8 debate for the last 6 years? Gotcha!

that debate should also be abandoned

[Works Mag]

I have been European based for over 5 years now. I have been to or worked at most (about 70%) of the professional series' or their organizers currently running in Europe, and now currently work full time in drift industry.

Before my move to Europe I used to go to go to FD (westcoast) and D1 events quite often (2-3 a year). I was at FD Long Beach this year, as a spectator, which was the first FD event I'd been to since 2007. I have a couple personal observations that you guys can take how ever you'd like.

I have never seen anywhere else in the world, a drift series that covers the distance (miles) that FD does while maintaining at least 32 of the same drivers to each of its rounds. Does anyone know the exact number of drivers that attended every round last year and this year so far? The professionalism at the FD events in unmatched internationally. Judging, event coordination, merchandising, safety, technical regulations and a sense of authority are unmatched. Judging could be a bit more clear but in my opinion the decisions are very sound when explained. Judges make decisions by using the tools given to them at the time of the decision, some people dont realize this. It doesn't always matter what actually happens but rather what the judges see, as strange as that sounds. FD seems to always be improving the tools (ie. proximity sensors) for the judges. "Hand of God" rule...

That being said I'm not here to only stroke FD, but simply tell why it is the best series I've witnessed. Could it be better? YES! But maybe thats not the prerogative of FD but rather American drifting and drifters.

I like the banter on this forum but no reason to batter a series. Kudos for being passionate

[Bebop]

The argument was never about FD's professionalism, attendance, safety, or technical regulation. When it comes to that they are number one PERIOD!

Even though my oppinion about FD drivers ducking D1 was based on the facts that are already known that comment was redududant and probably shouldnt have been said, but saying the D1 USA events that took place from 2003-2007 were poorly planned with no driver attendance is pure slander.

If you think questioning the absents of proven drivers and well known sponsors is beating a dead horse please consider the fact the majority of the 50+ active licence drivers in the series have yet to podium EVER in the series. I think there is only around 16 active drivers in the series with podiums and around 12 drivers with podiums who are no longer in the series. Also consider that these sponsors who left the series still support other sports that target the same demographic as FD.

[5150 Cruiser]

The argument was never about FD's professionalism, attendance, safety, or technical regulation. When it comes to that they are number one PERIOD!

Even though my oppinion about FD drivers ducking D1 was based on the facts that are already known that comment was redududant and probably shouldnt have been said, but saying the D1 USA events that took place from 2003-2007 were poorly planned with no driver attendance is pure slander.

If you think questioning the absents of proven drivers and well known sponsors is beating a dead horse please consider the fact the majority of the 50+ active licence drivers in the series have yet to podium EVER in the series. I think there is only around 16 active drivers in the series with podiums and around 12 drivers with podiums who are no longer in the series. Also consider that these sponsors who left the series still support other sports that target the same demographic as FD.

Personally, i don't believe bringing up any debate, no matter how much its discussed is beating a dead horse. Every year things change up and at times the reasons for doing things change as well. Sometimes drivers reaons change, sometimes it might not even be up to them.

IN this case about drivers and sponsors leaving, it really isn't that hard. Its all about money.
Yes, In Sam Hubinette case I'm sure Dodge had a lot to do with the switch to off road. Had Sam been doing better in the Challenger, then I'm sure they would have re-considered the move and stayed in FD for another season.

You either perform and keep your place, or you don't and your sponsors leave. Its really no secret. That's how its been since day one in all motor sports and will continue to be.

[Bebop]

So what do you do when you do "perform" and for some odd reason your sponsors still "leave" for less qualified individuals? This is NOT how motor sports is suppose to be, this is the only motor sport where the money does not always follow the talent. Wouldn't Dodge just support another driver or team if Sam wasn't collecting hardware? Nope because their presence in the series in general wasn't profitable anymore... I'm not too sure if it ever was.

This isn't about drivers performances, all of ASDs drivers minus JR were in the top 10 last year and they still had to cut one. Takatori was left without a ride after finishing the final event on the podium. Yoshioka had to sit out a couple years after getting a win in a slow corolla. The way I see it right now there's a bunch naive sponsors that that are picking up the wrong talent and some smart sponsors who are scaling back support while keeping proven talent and a few disgruntled sponsors who are giving up on the sport all together.....why!!??!!!??!!

If I'm beating a dead horse your beating around the bush

[5150 Cruiser]

So what do you do when you do "perform" and for some odd reason your sponsors still "leave" for less qualified individuals? This is NOT how motor sports is suppose to be, this is the only motor sport where the money does not always follow the talent. Wouldn't Dodge just support another driver or team if Sam wasn't collecting hardware? Nope because their presence in the series in general wasn't profitable anymore... I'm not too sure if it ever was.

I don't understand you half the time. You wonder why sponsors up and leave but yet in the case of Dodge, you answed your own question. Sam wasn't performing, they left and since the presence because..
1.- wasn't profitable
2.- Felt there presence would have benifited in another form of motorsport.
In Dodge's case, they still have to be chosey about what form of motor sposrts they take part in since there still recovering from the bailout.

Well this isn't "Should land" which you seem to be stuck in. Motor sports is run heavily by politics and doesn't always pan out the way we'd like. IN many cases those decisions are the right ones. IN some there not. and were not always going to agree with thoses decesions.

You said you follow F1. Remember back in 07 when Lewis Hamiltion and Fernado Alonso were team mates? It was Lewis's rookie year and Alonso's first year with McLaren. Lewis did unbealibly well in his rookie year and was in line to become a world champion his rookie year. Alsonso was also in track to win but since he was the vetern, he felt that he should have been the number one driver. McLaren didn't play favorites and let both of them drive. It was clear after the many shinaigans he played( and he played quite a few) that while yes, he was a top performer, he wasn't a good fit for McLaren. SO next year, they picked up Henki Kovelian and Alsonso went back to Renualt.

This isn't about drivers performances, all of ASDs drivers minus JR were in the top 10 last year and they still had to cut one. Takatori was left without a ride after finishing the final event on the podium. Yoshioka had to sit out a couple years after getting a win in a slow corolla.

When sponsors pick up new drivers several factors are looked into. Yes, results carry weight, but who's marketable, who's going to be a good fit with the team, what car they are willing to drive, who will work well within the team are all factors.
I don't know Takatori or Yoshioka. They might be awesome guys. BUt maybe they pissed a few people off in there time to the point that sponsors would rather take a chance at new blood than risk head butts. Again, i don't know. But were not always going to get every answer spoon fed to us and again, this isn't un-common in motorsports.

I don't know if you noticed, but the econemy isn't exactly flurishing right now. Even if people perform at there bests and podiem every once in a while, cuts still happen. Sometimes those cuts are based on performance, but other times there based on who'd marketable, what car they are willing to run. I remeber a few years back Taka made a statement when the V8 craze started that he wasn't interested in driving anything but a corrolla. Well that doesn't help his case when ASD builds falkens cars and he not wiling to upgrade to at least an S chassis. Also if the new kid on the block has already built himself a fan base and following, then it might be worth it for them to take a chance. When Gushi got his ride with Ford in the new Mustang back in 06', one of the main reasons was he was marketable to the younger generation. He had that following already.

The way I see it right now there's a bunch naive sponsors that that are picking up the wrong talent and some smart sponsors who are scaling back support while keeping proven talent and a few disgruntled sponsors who are giving up on the sport all together.....why!!??!!!??!!

If I'm beating a dead horse your beating around the bush

Because maybe to them, drifting isn't the be all free all that you see it as. Drivers can do well, bring in a fan base, but in the end, if it isn't enough then it isn't enough. Some gave it a try and found out it wasn't there cup of tea and move on. Others gave it a run, but might have had to make a choice between drifting and the next big fad. Point being is the answers are out there. They may not be what you want to hear, but they are out there.

[Bebop]

5150 you flip flop more then John Kerry

First your say

Your ussualy pretty knowledgable when it comes to all things drift

Then you say

I don't understand you half the time.

First you say

You either perform and keep your place, or you don't and your sponsors leave. Its really no secret. That's how its been since day one in all motor sports and will continue to be.

Then you say

When sponsors pick up new drivers several factors are looked into. Yes, results carry weight, but who's marketable, who's going to be a good fit with the team, what car they are willing to drive, who will work well within the team are all factors.

So which is it? Stick to your guns bruh.

Was Fernando a 2 time champion before coming to McLaren? Yes
Was Fernando in any danger of not returning to a top team in 08? No
Did Fernando makes hundreds of millions of dollars before going back to Renault? Yes
Did Fernando ever miss a start because of situation regaurding red bull? No

There are better situations in F1 to support your argument but at the end of the day a F1 team's budget and exposure is litteraly a million or two million times greater then FD team's.

Honestly I'm not gonna contiue this debate with you because you keep switching your stance about it for the sake of maintaining a argument it seems, but since we both can agree that in this sport your results dont equate to the amount if any support you get I'll leave you with this. Dodge still supports Rally Cross which targets the same demographic, Redbull and Rockstar support Rally Cross and every X Games related sport that targets the same demographic as FD as well. The economy is not at its best but obviously not bad enough to keep these companies from pursuing the same demographic....they just arent doing it with FD anymore. Why?

Point being is the answers are out there. They may not be what you want to hear, but they are out there.

Right back at ya.

[5150 Cruiser]

Yup. Read what i said that you quoted. I do feel your pretty knowledgeable when it comes to drifting, but you completely contradicted yourself in your last post. Your whole argument thus forth has been is you don't understand

..

For some odd reason some of big investors are turning there back on drifting and the rest of money isnt always following the talent.

Then you say...

Wouldn't Dodge just support another driver or team if Sam wasn't collecting hardware? Nope because their presence in the series in general wasn't profitable anymore... I'm not too sure if it ever was.

Dude, you answered you own question.

IN the case of drivers needing to perform to keep there sponsors, yes. I believe this to be true and stand by it. I also believe that when sponsors are looking for new drivers many other factors are brought in than just performances. Two different things there buddy. And no, they don't contradict each other since one expectations change once you've landed the job.

Was Fernando a 2 time champion before coming to McLaren? Yes
Was Fernando in any danger of not returning to a top team in 08? No
Did Fernando makes hundreds of millions of dollars before going back to Renault? Yes
Did Fernando ever miss a start because of situation regaurding red bull? No

There are better situations in F1 to support your argument but at the end of the day a F1 team's budget and exposure is litteraly a million or two million times greater then FD team's..

Your completely missing my point. My point was while Fernado performed at his best and brought money in for McLaren and the team, he obviously wasn't good fit for the team. He wasn't a team player. He demanded favoritism. He didn't get it so he started making things miserable at McLaren for both Hamilton and Dennis. Thus he wasn't asked to come back a second season. I'm sure he wouldn't have even if he was asked, but the point being he wasn't a good fit.

Dodge still supports Rally Cross which targets the same demographic, Redbull and Rockstar support Rally Cross and every X Games related sport that targets the same demographic as FD as well. The economy is not at its best but obviously not bad enough to keep these companies from pursuing the same demographic....they just arent doing it with FD anymore. Why?

Because maybe there not seeing the return in drifting that they do in, or think they will in Rally. They gave it a shot, it didn't work out for them and they moved on. Demographic doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. I follow drifting, but rally not so much. (a little here and there, but not really). Your assuming that if ones a drifting fan, then they must be a rally fan and vis-verse. That's not necessarily the case.
Dodge and sam have been working together for years. Did Dodge have the final say on if they were going to stay in drifting? maybe. But i'm sure they had Sam's input on it.

[Bebop]

Bruh.... we are saying the same exact thing.

For the sake of the argument I guess.