Passing?? (D1 and Formula D Rules/Judging)

[nissanguy_24]

Have any video of that pass?, I assume its on an option video. Is there a place where i can download that clip? if not then what video is it in? (just interested in seeing that cefiro)

[MrodDrft]

yea i have it on a option i DL off kazaa. Hit me up on AIM MrodDrft ill send it to u

[nissanguy_24]

yeah ill contact you later, im going threw a big anti virus anti spyware. anti extra crap sweep on my computer.. clean up time!

[MrodDrft]

im goign to bed now though since its about 1ish so IM me tomarrow ill send it on ova.

[OH240SE]

the problem w/ the vids is the fact that they are so huge that they wont even fit on a cd, I have them on the hard drive but i dont have the editing software to skip right to the good spots. Hopefully someone on here has better editing skills that i do, and can post some links to some passing. if i can get my buddy to post links from his server site then u can download the entire jap option vids, but be warned they are huge...
I'll see what i can do.

L8r

AJB

[CrazyHawaiian]

You should be able to determine if drifting is a race or a show by how the winner is determined. In its current form, drifting is not a race. Winners are determined subjectively based on a set of criteria. If this were a race, people would be timed and the winner would be determined by time. This is one of the big reasons so many SCCA folks thinks drifting is dumb (if you dont believe me, read sccaforums.com). They do not consider drifting a sport because it is not a race. Many of them can not handle the fact that the winner is determined by a panel of judges. It all comes back to the show drifting versus the race drifting. Considering the sport is new and there are a lot of different opinions, use this anology to make it easier to understand. Think of the two Olympic Events, Figgure Skating and Speed Skating. In one event (Figgure Skating) the winner is determined by a panel of judges. In the other event (Speed Skating) the winner is determined by the clock. Which do you consider a race? Now here's the hard question: How would you combine the two?

I prefer that Drifting be a Show, but I feel that it can also be made into a race. For example, when people battle on the mountain (street), having a crazier angle or more smoke than someone else does not really matter. Placement is what matters. I can see a professional variant of drifting involving racing, but they would have to start using the clock to determine the winner and I imagine there would be a lot of accidents. I honestly dont agree with how judging is explained in this thread. That might be how it does happen in real life right now, but I don't think its right. Maybe if it was explained differently I might understand. It seems they are trying to mix the two (show and race), and this leaves a lot of unanswered questions for the drivers. For example, the Judges tell the drivers they will be awarded points for taking a certain line on a certain turn (for the crowd). So the drivers take that line and this leaves an opening for someone to attempt a pass on a different line. So someone passes them taking the line the Judges did not want to see and somehow ends up with more points? What happened to what the Judges wanted? Its a contridiction. So you're telling me if I ignore the line they (Judges) want me to take in order to prevent someone from passing me I will be scored lower? So how is this a race then? You see what I mean? It has to be one or the other. Either the Judges tell you what they want and score you subjectively (its a show). Or the second choice, the drivers take whatever line they want, drift however they want, and whoever can pass others and end up in first wins (its a race). This current form of judging (how it was explained) is very weird if you ask me.

[AlexPfeiffer]

Thank you CH, allways great at putting things in perspective.

Anyways, we as drivers have been unhappy many times at the way we are judged. Plain and simple, write some rules that everyone can fallow.

[OH240SE]

Crazy Hawiian,
dude u have a point, it kind've sux how the drivers get judged instead of racing. its real confusing how points are awarded for doing this instead of that, and neither of which make much sense.

because if its left up to a judge then its like highschool football where the ref can determine the entire outcome of the game, throwing flags just for fun. Indeed drifting is a sport of skill, but dont the judges want the drivers to enter the clipping point at a certain speed and do their best to control it?? its starting to be like nascar where they will just throw in a competition yellow for the hell of it, red flag someone and black flag someone else and just kind've make up rules as they go. I realize that its just starting out as a sport, but shouldn't it be a matter of speed, control and angle instead of hitting the pre-determined dots on the track that the panel of judges wants to see? whats with the judges anyway? do they set up these points for spectators to watch the cars pitch, or do they set them to see what the drivers can control their car better?? this whole rule system is weird. it seems to contradict itself. if they're gonna have the 2 drivers battle then DAMNIT HAVE THEM BATTLE! time their runs, set them up for 3 runs if necessary (even tho it shouldn't take that much) its about honorable racing, run the lines the best u can w/out screwing ur rival over. if ur gonna be a *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* and cut someone's line off making them wreck ur *Censored**Censored**Censored* should be the looser, this isn't GT3. u can't just be an asshole and block all the time. if they dont time these runs then they'll always have blockers. (problem is for those who believe the drift is the slow way around corners, if u time these runs then people wont drift)

and the delema begins...


i'm starting to wonder what the real goal is that these judges want the drivers to achieve.

is it to set up the best show for the crowd
or is it to be the fastest on the track ?

thats the question.

AJB

[Ernie]

The beauty of drifting in my opinion is the fact that just about any car can be used an still be equal when it comes to a drift. There is argument all day on whether the Viper should be in Formula D or not and whether it is a tube chassis or not. Drifting has always revolved around a stock chassis. The Viper is not a stock chassis and is against the rules according to previously stated D1 and Formula D rules. I don't know how it was allowed in, but it is already done. The Viper can and has been beat....we just have to work harder at it. Bottom Line is that the Viper is not using a stock chassis and I hope that the rules are more closely adhered to in the future. There was practically now modification, only setup, needed for the "Competition Coupe" Viper to compete in Formula D.

[Ernie]

The judging is getting pretty ridiculous...kind of like pass interference and instant replay in the NFL

[HKS-NOB]

MrodDrft:
so wat would happen in this video i have... Its at Fuji and Kumakumbo and Imamura are making the transition from drifting one way to the next. Imamura was coming on the outside and wen Kumakumbo swung his tail out he made the Apex Rx7 fly into the grass. Would that be Imamura's fault for following too close ?

i believe that was tsukuba instead of fuji........imamura went on to the grass just right b4 they enter the dunlop corner.........
imamura was going too close to kumakubo at the corner entrance..........a experienced tsukuba driver will know it's quite impossible to clear the corners with 2 cars while imamura was on the outside as well............so it's clearly imamura's fault that he went up too close to kumakubo..........

a similar situation happened abit earlier this yr.......when they had this d1 exhibition........making the d1 drivers to form a group and perform a group drift............asamoto was closing up to this 86 on the 2nd hairpin of tsukuba........and then on the straight b4 the dunlop corner........he managed to spd up and passed the 86 by like an inch..........the 86 didn't have enough space to drift.....and his bumper kissed asamoto's rear bumper.....and spins out.............since this is a group drift.....there are many cars behind to 86......and those cars were not able to stop the car and 2-3 other cars crashed into the 86..........

[noobster]

Originally posted by Ernie
The beauty of drifting in my opinion is the fact that just about any car can be used an still be equal when it comes to a drift. There is argument all day on whether the Viper should be in Formula D or not and whether it is a tube chassis or not. Drifting has always revolved around a stock chassis. The Viper is not a stock chassis and is against the rules according to previously stated D1 and Formula D rules. I don't know how it was allowed in, but it is already done. The Viper can and has been beat....we just have to work harder at it. Bottom Line is that the Viper is not using a stock chassis and I hope that the rules are more closely adhered to in the future. There was practically now modification, only setup, needed for the "Competition Coupe" Viper to compete in Formula D.

u dont know much about vipers do you? have you ever looked at a stock viper chassis? the same chassis is used on the comp coupe...except the comp coupe also has a roll cage.

[AtroXR7]

From the videos Ive seen, Asamoto races more than he drifts. One of the D1 vids I was watching with him in his orange FD, he was on everyones *Censored**Censored**Censored* pushing them the whole time on runs he had to follow. It was very entertaining to watch, but the problem is the other drivers didnt always have have the space to switch back on S curves. One of the runs, someone was forced out into the grass because of it, I cant remember who off the top of my headbut it was quite a show of skill that they avoided a collision. I think it was pretty clear the judges loved the aggressiveness because Asamoto won the event hands down, even tho other drivers were performing much nicer looking drifts.

[Feint]

Asamoto is one of those guys you don't want behind you.He's not the type of guy to back down and is known to overshoot.I guess this gets him kudos for blocking everyones line.

The problem with having a race version,there would have to be a hp limit,also more strict rules on modifications as well to even out the field.In racing,Ueo would get left behind fast compared to everyone running 450hp+.

[HKS-NOB]

feint

i dont think having a hp limit is necessary..........even though the guys who drive 86s like ueo have only 200 or so horsepower.....but i'm sure they will not get left behind on the japanese d1 tracks.........(i'm not sure the ones in the states though)...........i have a Time Attack clip that is done by a few d1 cars on tsukuba..........imamura's fd......taniguchi's s15.......miki's s15........and this guy with the yellow 86 which i forgot his name at the moment.............

every1 had achieved a pretty close time on time attack (grip...not drift)......1'00"xxx for imamura's fd.......1'01"099 for miki's s15....and 1'02"xxx for the 86...........and last but not least taniguchi's s15 achieved a amazing time of 58"2xx......2nd fastest silvia in japan........right behind yashio factory time attack s15's *Censored**Censored**Censored*.....which i believe it ran....57"xxx

so if that yellow 86 can run a similar time with the high output cars....like imamura's fd (500hp).......miki's s15 (540hp).....then y can't ueo keep up with them.......and i believe ueo's 86 is the most expensive 86 in d1 out of all 86s