CAR and DRIVER Favors GTO Over All Other Drift Cars

[_uG TM]

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8208

[Todd@Tires.com]

gimme a break...they even said "we have yet to drive a turbo'd drift car..blah blah"

[nissanguy_24]

This is the bad artical we spoke of.. a good drifting artical would be from Hot Rod magazine this month.

[nissanguy_24]

A few errors

These are the things everyone was thinking but no one laid out yet.

Originally published by Car and Driver

But what should Pontiac have expected? Drifting is the country’s newest motorsport, and most of the fans are the same enthusiasts who think it’s cool to spend 50 grand hopping up a Honda Civic that

Actually there tends to be a negative attitude towards civics in most drifters minds. Drifter will always prefer the rear wheel drive car to the front wheel drive car. More to the point few drifters will spend 50 thousand dollars on there drift cars.

Originally published by Car and Driver

—even when modified—can’t outrun a Corvette.

with 50 thousand dollars you could put a corvette drive train into a civic... To assume you cant outrun your precious vette with 50 thousand dollars into anything is rediculous and surprisingly arrogant of such a well known magazine.

What is the deal with your obession with the Corvette anyways? man i know its a cool car but you guys need to stop acting like its the end all be all of sports cars.. Not that it really counts as a sports car, the idea of a sports car is to be affordable to most, the corvette is hardly in the price range of most buyers no mater what there age, And if you really want to see a modified Import go up against a corvette why dont you call "Sport Compact Car's" Dave colemen and ask to do a comparison test between a stock 'vette and there Project Silvia. Step up to the plate and face a real modified car and quit picking on kids' civics.

Originally published by Car and Driver

It’s in sharp contrast to the front-drive sport compacts the fans would have likely arrived in. Pontiac invaded their turf.

Did you even go to the event? or perhaps you went and simply dont know anything about early and mid 90s japanese cars? I went, i saw more Rx-7s, of primarly the FC, but also FB and FD variety, The 240sx in primarly the S13 but also in the S14 variety, and more 86 Corrollas then you can shake a stick at.

What do these have in common? there all rear wheel drive. There where also an insane amount of All wheel drive WRXs.

There were some civics and integras too, alot of these guys were running pretty mean turbo setups However easily 80 percent of the cars there were not front wheel drive.

Originally published by Car and Driver

In a drifting competition, drivers purposely fishtail their cars around an asphalt course.

Wrong, Fishtailing and drifting are not the same thing, I refer you to <a href="http://www.powerslideways.com/powersliding.htm"> Power Slideway's guide on the differences </a> It was wrote by a domestic drifter who drives a Camaro to help his friends in the domestic world understand the difference. Further information can be had at http://www.powerslideways.com

Originally published by Car and Driver

Some old-school racers think that introducing panels of judges—and the inevitable accompanying politics—to motorsports is a strange idea, but the kids dig it.

Yes and some old school racers simply hate the fact that its a sport dominated by japanese cars. Same reason alot of old school racers hated the import drag trend. These people share ignorace with the dumbasses who booed the GTO just because it was (semi) American

Originally published by Car and Driver

The top drivers use rear-drive Japanese sports cars such as the Nissan 240SX, the Mazda RX-7, and the Toyota Supra

Did you forget the Corrolla? Maybe its not cool enough for you guys. Of course there was only One Supra in the event but you mentioned it. Supras are actually not that common in drifting. They tend to be pretty heavy. and why did you give no love the to name of the japanese varients? Perhaps an artical on the S15 Silvia will show americans what we are missing when it comes to fun to drive affordable sports cars... but then again im sure if you put 50 thousand dollars into a S15 Silvia it couldnt touch a stock corvette... yeah right..

But im willing to believe these things where left out for the sake of brevity

Originally published by Car and Driver

Typically, the cars have highly modified turbocharged engines because it takes a lot of power to keep the rear wheels spinning.

Your right typiclly they do, however it really doesnt take that much power to keep the wheels spinning, these drivers are very skilled and can use weight transfer techniques to keep the wheels spinning in even an underpowered car.

Originally published by Car and Driver

We’ve been thinking that a big-engined sports car, such as the 350-hp GTO, would be easier to drift than a small-engined turbocharged car. Turbo cars typically can’t match the instant throttle response of a big V-8 and thus require more cajoling to spin the rear tires.

Your right about the throttle response and torque curve of a big displacement engine, dispite the fact i dont understand your obsession with the 8 cylender 'V' design.. but okay... However the thing you are missing/forgetting/misleading people into believing is that this is a game of Power, it really isnt. They arent just mashing the gas and powersliding, but rathering using a combination of all kinds of techniques to slide the cars. Its not as simple as you make it out to be. Which is unfortionate because many people will read your magazine not really knowing about drifting and get the wrong idea. Trust me Drifters love displacement but there are some problems with your statement.

The problem with "big engined" sports cars being easier to drift is the weight. Every pound of weight you add to a car makes it harder to control. I know you guys consider the vette light and im sure it would make a hell of a drifter but i dont know if it would be "easier" indeed most guys learning to drift find it easier to start with a less powerful platform. Ask Sam Hubinette about the advantages of a big NA powerplant. because trust me there are some. But it is by no means "easier' to drift a car with a large engine.. in fact the engine has little to do with it.

Dont get me wrong, we would love to see more of these great american cars drifting. And i defenately hope the ignorance showed by the fans towards the GTO will end.. and i think it already started too. Because most drifters are a fan of all cars.. Here on drifting.com there is no import vs domestic, hell theres not even a chevy vs ford rivalry.. Supra and Seven fans.. Ford and Chevy fans and more importantly the mixture of import and domestic fans all share ideas and opinions with one another. Because in the end we all like driving hard and fast and we all love sports cars. Accelerating, Braking, Turning, Drifting, showing it off to friends alittle. We all enjoy these things.

Originally published by Car and Driver

The finished GTO weighed about 800 pounds less than a 3821-pound stocker. The squishy rubber suspension bushings were replaced with stiff urethane pieces, and the car was lowered 1.5 inches. We had to look pretty closely to find the drift-specific modifications.

Indeed, MIllen's GTO was one of the more extreme samples of weight reduction. Similar to what you see some of the bigger japanese cars going threw. But once again here is the weight disadvantage, He reduced 800 lbs of weight, an insane amount and hes still 300 lbs heavier then the stock Silvia. And most those guys loose 300 lbs easy too. However with a skilled driver like Rhys he can make the best of his disadvantages and advantages.. but not something any shmoe like me and you will be able to do. Thus the problem with the "easier to drift" bit.

Originally published by Car and Driver

We doubt any production car was developed with drifting in mind, and it’s likely that many would meet the same ruination eventually. So don’t try this at home with Dad’s new GTO.

Indeed drifting is one of the most extreme things you can do... but that said i would look into the S15 Silvia.. maybe not designed to drift, but i would say japanese drifters deffenately inspired alot of equipment on that beast...


I really dont have a complant with the rest of the artical its well done and the technical side is really well covered. But please heed the advice i give and read up abit more... and for the love of god stop picking on kids with civics. People will modify what they have get over it!

[REVLIMIT]

Hmmm...I think I just grew a beard reading that post man O_o haha. Man I don't understand why the GTO is so damn heavy. I thought my car was heavy but it's only about 3,400. Right now it weights in at about 3,200. And early next year around 2,700lbs O_o

It's understandable though that Car&driver would make a article like that. While their actually not totally DOMESTIC type of magazine. Considering their actually more of a Euro mag in my opinion. They don't really seem to like or have interest in smaller 4 cylinder cars. It's pretty much the same with import magazines. How they'll bash on american cars and what not when they don't really know much about them.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by REVLIMIT
Hmmm...I think I just grew a beard reading that post man O_o haha. Man I don't understand why the GTO is so damn heavy. I thought my car was heavy but it's only about 3,400. Right now it weights in at about 3,200. And early next year around 2,700lbs O_o

It's understandable though that Car&driver would make a article like that. While their actually not totally DOMESTIC type of magazine. Considering their actually more of a Euro mag in my opinion. They don't really seem to like or have interest in smaller 4 cylinder cars. It's pretty much the same with import magazines. How they'll bash on american cars and what not when they don't really know much about them.

Yes im not a big fan of domestic bashing... however i expected more from car and driver.. If i had to classify car and driver i would say its a "big money" type magazine. Meaning there all about expensive and luxury.. Poor man sports cars, beater rally cars, and sleeper drag racers arent really there things. They especialy seem to look down upon anything from japan thats inexpensive.

As for the weight of the GTO, man who knows? im at a bit of a lost about that too. Isnt that LS1 all alluminum? or am i off base there? it is big car, but still, for a 2 door car that thing is a beast.

I'd sugest to pontiact to produce a lighter version if/when they come out with a more sporty version, like the "judge" i've heard so much about.. light weight will increase handling as well as drag times.

[snowblind]

dont take too much offense about car and driver ripping on japanese cars compared to the vette. because they do that to everything. A few years back they did a vette vs. viper (yes, viper) shootout. Both cars were stock so the vette lost hands down on everything, duh. but what did car and driver do? they wrote an entire article about how "refined" the vette is, and how they would rather have the vette because it "behaves" better. Now I like vettes alot but what a bunch of crap! vipers are better sports cars than vettes, no brainer. its like comparing a camaro to a vette, they are not in the same price or performance category. They should change the name of the mag to car and gm driver.


(::caution semi off topic ranting below:
they way things are going maybe we should have a car and driver sponsered corvette driven by rado, drifting first official bad guy.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by snowblind
(::caution semi off topic ranting below:
they way things are going maybe we should have a car and driver sponsered corvette driven by rado, drifting first official bad guy.

lol this was hilarious!!!

[P1STON2ROTARY]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
lol this was hilarious!!!

yea that was funny, but its also pointless....How will he ever leave the starting line if there is no christmas tree to initiate the drift?

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by P1STON2ROTARY
yea that was funny, but its also pointless....How will he ever leave the starting line if there is no christmas tree to initiate the drift?

*chuckle..* common now rado is trying to improve his image, we shouldnt poke too much fun at him.

[REVLIMIT]

Yea the LS1 is a pretty light motor...which consfuses me as to why the car is so heavy. From what I understand the LS1 weights only maybe 25-35lbs heavier then a turbo RX7 rotary O_o

[Transient]

Individual writers may have their biases, but C&D would enjoy a good 4-cyl turbo RWD compact just as much as any real auto enthusiast.

I remember their "letter from Japan" articles back in like 1999-2000 about the S15, anyway.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by Transient
Individual writers may have their biases, but C&D would enjoy a good 4-cyl turbo RWD compact just as much as any real auto enthusiast.

I remember their "letter from Japan" articles back in like 1999-2000 about the S15, anyway.

What is Car and Driver except for a series of writers... unfortionately what they choose to publish is what they choose to say about there magazine.. remember the rado thing?

as for the letters form japan articals i cant see i ever got to read them, which is unfortionate.

[Transient]

Around that time they were also talking about the S15-based Z concept. That thing was sort of cool. (the retro one). Good thing they made a non-retro design in the end though.

[Xantos]

i sent them an e-mail already addressing this and your comments from the article feel almost word for word of what i said; however no reply yet... i doubt they will reply though, dont want to hurt their image :shakes head: