Formula D, (FEEDBACK)

[CRASHDRIVE]

You know what this Thread is missing?
A good comment from mr FormulaD (the username ok) himself.

I think all of us here are waiting for his reply.

Also, I did not go to FD, but It seems like it's more of a SIDESHOW vs an actual competition.

It's like a free style rap battle where the audience pick who's the winner.

Im just re-capping everyones opinion base on this thread alone.

All i have to say is.... WOW.

I'll just step back and just watch the circus monkeys to their things.

[STFUAD]

Originally posted by mav1178

So....... where's the comparison? If you said "D1 vs. FD" then that's a valid comparison, but to compare Formula D to DGTA is like comparing major league baseball to the little league world series. One is professional competition, the other is a amateur/beginner learning event.


-alex

I'm sure Moto would appreciate you thinking of his DA events as, amateur/beginner learning events because he does hold competitions and I believe you participate in them. I hope you don't think of his events like a lower stepping stool to something greater because right now many of us think his drift day and other grassroots events are more to our liking. I think of DA's events as ALTERNATIVES to the so called, "professional" events. We can't drift on the street without fear of jail time or impound of vehicles so we need an outlet.

[otakud00d]

I agree, the whole event stunk of bling bling and Rice.

At least a domestic won. That oughtta shut those ricers up.

Where were you sitting, btw? I was at the top middle and also heard "F*CK THE VIPER!"

Also, I have vids of the Hubinette race if you want 'em.

[STFUAD]

"The intention of Formula D is to grow drifting talent here in America. This first all came about when a member of Option Japan wanted to know why no one was doing an American Championship for points for all the drifters not only CA but the US. Their thought was that the better the talent here, the more exciting it is for D1 to come back year after year. Since there is already a pre-existing working relationship, we took the reigns and tried to put together the best and most comprehensive package we could.

Don't let the television scare you. It is not a "Hollywood come in and mess everything up" type of thing. Similarly to how drag racing has their programming this will too. However, being able to maintain creative control the point is to show the stories of the real drifters in real situations as a drifter. Not a high budget, Fast and the Furious crap fest where the real scene is not exposed. You might very well see the last minute tuning at 4 in the morning preparing for an event to pit antics of some of the more colorful characters. We all know who those are This is a forum for real drifters to tell their story and show what we all like ot think is one of the most exciting form of motorsports to watch.

Marketing obviously is a part of this and you have good points... Very good points. See this as a way to spread our message of what drifting is really all about. People out there with alterior motives will spread those messages you refer to. We need to use the opportunities out there to spread the right message and show people the uniqueness of this culture and how it came to be. If we all do that then "they" cannot alter or change that message.

There are gonig to be those companies that try to do the "FnF type hype" but this is not one of them. We only hope that our hype superceeds that of anyone trying to go against the drift grain so to speak so that the only thing heard is what we all love. Now that I got all cheesy, I hope that helps."


________________________________

HOLY ANTITHESIS BATMAN!

[mav1178]

Originally posted by STFUAD
I'm sure Moto would appreciate you thinking of his DA events as, amateur/beginner learning events because he does hold competitions and I believe you participate in them. I hope you don't think of his events like a lower stepping stool to something greater because right now many of us think his drift day and other grassroots events are more to our liking. I think of DA's events as ALTERNATIVES to the so called, "professional" events. We can't drift on the street without fear of jail time or impound of vehicles so we need an outlet.

You are taking my comments out of context, and you are also misinterpreting what I am doing.

Please do not put words in my mouth or even assume that I think any lower of DA's events.

To recap MY OWN STANCE ON THIS, since it was brought up by you:

- I decide to participate in Formula D, not to win but to see if I can hang with the established professionals.
- Deadline for registration for Sonoma is June 26th, same day as Drift Day Competition 2, so I register for Formula D on that day. The DDC2 rules state that anyone in another "professiona competition" including F-D cannot run in it... but what am I supposed to do? I'm "too good" for DD competitions but no good for Formula D? Plus everyone wanted me to defend my 3rd place from 2003 and I did.
- I am at the point where 1) majority Drift Day courses are too easy for me, 2) I am not at instructor level yet, and 3) I can't run in any DD competitions from now on for fear of being labeled as "too good" for the amateur field. Even at the last competition in June I heard a few complaints from friends that I shouldn't have run given my experience... wow a whole year's worth of experience.
- DD Competition is an "amateur" competition... it was even promoted as one. The entry field was limited so DD instructors do not get to compete in it, nor do any other "pro" drivers in Formula D. That's what it is all about. All of Drift Day is considered amateur... Go ask Moto, Naoki, Taka.... they want people to learn and improve at these events. If that isn't an amateur event, I don't know what is. Nowhere did I state that it was LOWER other than the skills represented at the event from the participants. And that's not putting anyone down, that's the truth.
- If DD is considered a stepping stool to something higher... so be it. If DD is ultimately where you want your skills progression to stop... so be it. Neither side is wrong, it's just that there are certain realities to the world of drifting that people need to learn to accept, and not put down all the time.

-alex

[STFUAD]

Alex, we have a lot of respect for you because you have risen through the ranks. It's just that you assume we don't know what's going on in the inside and we don't have a say. You keep saying we need to stop hating but you don't know where I am coming from. I used to manage a D1/Formula D team and I and people around me know.

If you think the judging was fair, cool, we all have our own opinions, but please don't say we don't know.

Now that I think about it... if Moto would not let you compete then you had no choice and there IS a shortage of venues so I appologize for the statement in my last post.

Goodluck to all drivers big and small...

[craiglieberman]

Just to clarify...

I didn't disagree with STFUAD....in fact, I agree: based on all accounts, the judging was not what it should have been.

My point, quite simply was: I'd bet that despite a mass of sentiment within the PURIST community to the contrary, I'd bet that Formula D considers the event wildly successful because THEY MADE MONEY.

I'm not faulting them for their pursuit of profit, merely making a point that an event that packed the stands and attracted many, many people and 51 teams could still be viewed by some as not doing the sport justice.

With the infusion of commercialization, acquisition by our friends at Vision, look for only more of this "lifestyle" component to the beloved sport of drifting. Will it make it better, or worse?

There's still that nagging question lurking....how many people want to drift on their own dime? How many want to get paid to do it? There are compromises in either situation.

I hope it works out the way the masses want it to....

[twcfc3s]

Originally posted by Brian
i call it.
*Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* American capitalism.

this is why i hate US drifting.
companies and people like who who exploit it to make another buck that you DON'T need.
please keep yourself limited to car shows.
we (the people who actually enjoy drifting) don't want you here.

*Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ING WORD!!!

[BooZTT]

One question...whos going to run this other monumental event that will out do or eclipse any event currently held? I think if you could do it..you would have. Instead of sitting here trying to complain about things in such a whining manner you could try to be professional yourself and give constructive criticism rather than just bantering. When you do that people won't take you seriously. There is such a thing as a good critic..the way you brought about your feelings was not it. So you'd rather there be no event and have Option come in and monopolize the US with D1? You'd rather have an event with more polotics in it than any other motorsports event I've ever attended? I've been around drifting since I lived in Japan..before D1 and back when it was just sokokai and gymkhana events. Things weren't so bad when there was just Ikaten and BM Hi..but even now BM Hi events are beginning to get a bit political. So where do we take things from here? And who are we to judge how things are to be done? And speaking of judges..you're talking about guys that have been drifitng for 10+ years or competing in professional racing series in Japan for that long or longer. Are you to say you'd be a better judge? And another thing...were you able to see every section of the track and every angle of each run? Honestly Chris won his round against Sam..Sam's line on the run Chris tapped the barrier was off and he knew it and even told me...he had to slow down SO much just to try to correct which caused Chris (who was on the line and faster) to have to react as to not hit Sam. Sam tried to get in on Chris the last run (Chris in front) and Chris locked him out...he showed he wasn't intimidated and that in a much less powerful car could still run away from Sam. Sam is a great guy and an incredible driver but he does make mistakes..and he admits them, which he did. So instead of sitting here giving us your biased opinion..I gave mine based on what I saw (while filming) and what Sam told me and after reviewing footage from multimple cameras we had around the track. Some things were a little off, but NO event ever goes without a hiccup. Tarzan clearly checked on Seigo before he went to the fence. I was zoomed in on the whole thing and caught the whole accident on film. You'll be able to see for yourself what happened like you were standing next to Tarzan's Viper when the accident took place. Try to use a little more tact and be a better critic in the future..people will take you much more seriously and I can bet you'd see results. Anyone can come on here and bash Formula D..whether they be 8 years old or 80 years old. Who is anyone supposed to believe or listen to if they just bash everything and don't try to give well thought out criticism. There were many runs where I thought the one more time was ligit and a few that weren't..but that was actually due to the croud...not the judges. The croud does have a say in things believe it or not. Rys did a great job although a little too agressive, but that's just his style and I have a lot of respect for his skills. I do agree Ross should have had another go at it with Casper. He outdrove Casper the first run and then Casper went too slow when in front which caused Ross to have to lock the brakes while sideways on the bank to avoid hitting him. They allowed that for other runs..but not his..that I disagreed with. I don't think the judges had the angle to see what happened like we could zoomed in while filming. Anyhow..I think Formula D is going just fine..it's their first year..things always go wrong the first year and you weed out the issues and rules to make the event better for everyone. NO ONE can put on an event without skipping a beat..unexpected things ALWAYS happen that can't be predicted or avoided..you learn from these things and move on. So it all goes back to what i said earlier..be a good critic..it will do some muych more for the venue and the promoters. They do need to hear criticism..but theres a right way and wrong way to go about it. My $0.02 sorry I turned it into a book. Mahalo...

[BooZTT]

I knew you would come back at me in such a way. I know who you are too...and I'm surprised you're taking this the way you are. I was only bringing out the point that if you feel so terribly about the event that maybe you should make your own since you seem to think things are so bad. Trying to pick apart my post is silly. I was making points and discussing them with my evvidence...you seem to think your opinion is the only one that matters from how you've typed it. Look at your post yourself without letting your emotions get in the way. I didn't say I was the only one who speaks with the drivers (since you like to point out things like this i figured I'd hit it on your level). I have it on FILM...I have SAM saying it on FILM. What more evidence do you need. Are you calling Sam a liar? I'm being totally calm..so don't think I am yelling or upset..I am clearly not and I know we have mutual respect for one another (I would hope). It's great that you stand by your calls..that's a good trait..but remember your calls are just as much opinionated as mine..so who's wrong and what's it worth arguing...when the drivers themselves tell me what they felt ON CAMERA..what other evidence is required at that point. These things are hard to call...and you and I are not the end all of judgement calls..but film and interviews don't lie..unless the drivers are..but I'm not about ready to tell my friends they're liars. You gave "credentials" so I just mearly pointed out a little of mine..in VERY small details..you, knowing me, should know that I left a lot out. I'm not here to toot my own horn and I NEVER "knocked" your credentials. I mearly stated my opinion and you took it personally..where as even now...I still have not. This is a forum and is meant to discuss things with other people..not to bash one another or be "the man"..it's the internet for god's sake. I hope tonight if i see you at the banquet that we can still be cool and you won't hold a grudge against me just for voicing what I think. I wouldn't do that to anyone.

[CRASHDRIVE]

BooZTT
Did you read the thread title?
This thread was to discuss about the judging system in FD.

This was not a thread about question individual credentials.
So why even bring up the fact that people that whines needs to make their own events. There was already a thread about everything else.

This is not the thread about that.

Please reconsider your views about this thread.

Again, this is a discussion about the judging system at FD.

So stay on topic.

Thank you.

[BooZTT]

I didn't stray off topic anymore than anyone else. And the initial post seemed more like a bash than criticism so I appologize. My views are my views, yours are yours. So why should I re-think them? These are opinions that we are all expressing. I have just as much right as any of you to voice mine. I think a lot of people don't understand the judging system and don't really have the right to question them. I surely don't have the right to..but asking questions about them would be just fine. Unfortunately we'd need the judges themselves on here to get the real vision that they have of all of this. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. Until we have that..this is all kind of a pointless discussion.

[nissanguy_24]

Oh my god! is craig lieberman and me agreeing on something? dear god this must be the end.

Its clear this was a profit making event. I freakin love drifting, yet i left very early. I noticed others were leaving.. guys with S13s and 86s with no interiors. I think alot of the so called 'real drifters' meaning grassroots enthusiest there only to see drifting left early.

I said formula d would be bad, but dispite that i went, i went with an open mind, and honestly i hoped it wouldnt be the way i thought it would. But it was.

I know someone will be responding to this telling me that i dont know whats going on, or i dont 'get it' or so and so needs money so it needs to be this way. Or that drifting NEEDS this to be successful. But it seems like events held in this fashion will drive away drifters and just bring other people, car show guys and rap fans ect.. which is fine, but at that point why bother with drifting? just hold a HIN event or something.

Another thing, this event started very late in the day, 3 PM, on a sunday. Now many of us have to work on monday. And most drift events are held saturday morning. I understand they wanted to have 'night drift' and all this late night party stuff, but realisticly, wont schedules like this drive away serious enthusiest with careers and just bring in more younger guys who are out on summer vacation. Perhaps thats the target? i dont know. im not a big 'party' guy. I just like cars, i like driving cars, i like working on cars and i like seeing cars drive and compete.

I know this as well, for whatever reason i had alot of fun at the D1 event in irwindale then at Formula D yesterday. So take that how you will but thats how i felt, theres nothing i can do, or you can say that will change how much fun i had.

Now on to some suggestions.. (actually feedback)

Security.. these guys were asses. I do not apreciate paying good money only to be treated like an iraqi prisoner. You cant tell me it was for security either because i could name half a dozen ways i could of snuck a bomb or something in. Actually there treatment of me and my friend was one of the reasons i had such a crummy time.

Bling... The first thing i saw when i walked in were 20+ inch chrome spinners. After that there was a pretty GTR surrounded by about 6 gullwing cars of various makes, one NSX a few civics i think. All show cars actually. Mopar had a cool but strange exhibiton. i mean how many of us care what kind of technology goes into a viper, we can not afford vipers. Actually the drifting related activities were on the far end of the setup, threw all the car show stuffl

Time. Dude 3pm? there wasnt any drifting until 4pm at least. By this time you should be getting the top 8 ready.

Announcer. this guy claimed everyone had a great line and angle ect... even when i, an amateur could tell it was a horrible line, or the guy had to correct part way threw. A good example was Gushi, you know im a fan of gushi, but it was clear he was having trouble, something was wrong out there. Yet the announcer just yells "The goooooooooooooooooooooosh" and claims he has a great line/speed ect.. even when it was clear he was using the handbrake at the last second to try to correct his horrible line. Its too bad really about gushi, but thats another thing. (better luck next time my man!) The announcer wasnt honest about it at all! he did this for ever one of the runs, even when the driver didnt do so well.

Music. Do we need music playing WHILE the drifting is going on? over the poor announcer? And rap music? maybe im just not as big of a fan of rap music as everyone else seems.

Schedule.. Dude put a schedule in the program!!!!!!! this is easy and will help.



on another note, i spoke with the driver of the ElCamino, man too bad for those guys! i relaly wanted to see them run, i like the way there doing it, just enough sponsorship to get to the events, Truely grassroots. Very cool guys, come out next time and better luck!



In all i was very dissapointed in formula D.

And one final thought, someone mentioned alot of people were introduced to drifting that day, its true, i saw a very disverse crowd, but it was embarassing. Heres some guy in his 30s looking over a SR20 powered S13, and hes very interested in it, asking the gentlemen for more information ect.. I liked this, but at the same time he had to walk threw the DJs and rap and car show to get there. If he knew nothing of drifting, i dont want him to think this is all drifting. Anyways, ill let you guys tear me apart about it now.

[STFUAD]

BooZTT trust me, there IS a mutual respect. Please PM me and I will explain certain things that explain WHY I posted what I did, things even you may not be aware of.

I appologize to you if I came off harsh. After that event, I left very angry. Between people yelling, "FU*K Sam" and "FU*K the Viper" and "Rhys Sucks" and "JDM, JDM" and all the crazy comercialization that even Formula D in prior posts said "weren't going to happen", I was pissed. I knew the judging for Formula D and after this event, I was extremely confused. Formula D seems to be full of contradictions.

In my first post if you notice, it was well thought out and the only people I really used foul language towards were the retarded kids saying those certain things. The reason I went to Formula D was because I WANTED them to prove me wrong. The fact is, they didn't.

I don't doubt that starting a series is VERY difficult. I don't have the funds, I don't have the time. I have a full-time job, a wife, and bills to pay. If I could, I would definitely try. I just want there to be a series to focus on the drivers and skillful driving not the other miscellaneous fluff. Hopefully soon, that will become reality. I know you would love to be there to film.

Take care.

Kevin

[otakud00d]

Meh.. I liked the event, but some things disappointed me/pissed me off.

Overall, it was great fun, though.