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  • #31
    Originally posted by Octagon
    The N/A 13B engine is actually pretty weak sauce compared to the older 12A and 13A.

    The problem lies in the N/A 13B's six port design as compared to the turbo 13B's (and the 12A/13A's) four port design. The six port engine had far less compression, more of a tendency to burn oil (and apex seals, mind you) and cannot be ported out as big as the four port engines (therefore reducing its power potential).

    In reality, most all of the N/A FC RX7's you see in the SCCA use the old SA22C RX7's 12A engine because of its greater power potential and superior reliability. Rarely do I say an engine swap is anything but a last ditch effort for more power, but in the case of the FC it is almost mandatory to hunt down a four port turbo engine.
    Wtf?

    #1) All 12A's came with 9.4:1 compression rotors... Early 4port 13B's came with 9.2:1 compression rotors... 13B's from '84-'88 came with 9.4:1 compression rotors... 13B's from '89-'91 came with 9.7:1 compression rotors... 13BT's from 87-88 came with 8.5:1 compression rotors... 13BT's from 89-91 came with 9.0:1 compression rotors... 13BREW's came with 9.0:1 compression rotors as well

    #2) 12A's and early 4port 13B's were able to be ported more (not bigger) because they had much smaller ports from the factory than later 6port 13B's. If you ported them bigger, you would leave less area for the rotor's corner and side seals to run on... This would usually mean quicker death to these earlier engines. Also, porting them really big (disregarding port shape) would make for a much "peakier" motor with a smaller powerband than later 6port 13B's.

    #3) 12A's do not have a greater power potential over later 6port 13B's (probably not even over early 4port 13B's). It takes a decent streetported 12A to put out the same horsepower at the flywheel as the '89-'91 6port 13B (...which is 160). An '89-'91 6port 13B with a nice streetport is able to put out around 180rwhp (that is Rear Wheel horsepower, not just flywheel).

    #4) I don't know how you have determined that a 12A is more reliable, but since I don't have any factual information regarding this, I can't argue it.

    *edit #5) Forgot to mention that the 6port 13B's will have more low-end power if the 5th and 6th port actuators are working. This is because the ports are smaller and help low speed air carry a greater velocity (not sure if that's the correct way to term it). It's pretty much the same principle as a variable length intake manifold.

    To sum it all up, you are WRONG about the ability of the 6port 13B's. Please do not mislead people by posting information that is INCORRECT!
    Last edited by Infini IV; 09-21-2004, 05:27 PM.

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    • #32
      i got 160 rwhp out of my n/a on stock ports, it is pleanty for a beg. drifter
      MODS:
      RB header
      TB Mod
      SPD intake
      Apexi Catback
      Safc
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #33
        yeah, but all he had to do was look in his owner's manual.

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        • #34
          I apologize for being incorrect on the compression issue. I was speaking on information I've gleaned during my time around SCCA and IMSA cars. The six-port, as I've observed, is frowned upon. Perhaps it's just a lot of hearsay from guys who've been tuning 12A's since the RX3 was new news, but this is what I've been led to believe.

          Particularly since I've seen 12A's with more than 300hours of race time on a single set of apex seals, and have yet to see any 13B lay claim to the same feat.

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          • #35
            They are all stong motors, especially if you premix. Premixing is really good if you are going to beat on it a bit, it really hekps lengthen the life of your seals. I run a 12A w/ 220k miles on it, non-rebuilt and it is strong and fast. She is getting a rebuild this winter tho because of an oil leak between housings (the dowl pin leak of death). On rx7club.com there are a few ppl with over 400k miles on the engines w/ no rebuild before they blow. So 12a or 13b or even the 20b are all very reliable if taken care of.

            As for having fun w/ the car, if your not going to go drag it, you will find little use for gobs of HP, I run about 180hp out of the 12a w/ mods and I can (in a course) out run an STi just beacuse power doesn't count in corners as much as skill. I most definitely learned that at an SCCA auto-x watching little cars w/ around 150-200hp run the course 3-5sec faster then the STi's Corvettes and other nice cars.

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            • #36
              ^--- That, right there- is the most beautiful part of the automotive world to me.

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              • #37
                It really is, I mean I drive a Celica GT-4 from Japan everyday it has 340hp AWD and is extremely fast and all, but my little RX-7 weighing in at 2250lbs and having ~180hp hauls through the corners and drifts like there is no tomorrow if you want it to. An absolute ball to just take out and have a good time with. But sadly my pressure plate is gone so the clutch opens at high RPM, mostly due to red line of 9k and I do hit it w/o problem.

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                • #38
                  I loved the gt4 until i talked to a mechanic buddy of mine.. he HATES working on them haha... eveyrthing is such a pain to do it seems. Like a simple thing of changing the clutch can take 20 hours

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                  • #39
                    update::::
                    the cosmo was a twin turbo but yea ne way yea just do some minor fuel upgrades adn a port and a piggyback adn some exhaust and a good intake

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                    • #40
                      ^ ???

                      you'd have to run Haltech to run a 20B, a piggyback won't be enough.

                      and there are Cosmo's that are just two rotor N/A's.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by case
                        ^ ???



                        and there are Cosmo's that are just two rotor N/A's.
                        I think you're thinking of these Cosmos. The 1967-72 came with the L10A pending on year came with 110bhp to 128bhp And in the 2002 Tokyo Auto Salon Mazda released the Cosmo21 which came with the Renesis motor .
                        Last edited by theflatlander; 09-22-2004, 03:30 PM.

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                        • #42
                          19967-72 Cosmo
                          Attached Files

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                          • #43
                            And the Cosmo21
                            Attached Files

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                            • #44
                              My bad if I came across as an asshole, Octagon.

                              Since it doesn't hurt to know more accurate information:

                              otakugt4 - As for your 12A making ~180hp with full intake and exhaust... Unless you have dynoed the engine or the car to prove me wrong. You are most likely making around 140-150bhp (110-125rwhp). Also, a 1st gen Rx7 redlines at 7000rpm. How do I know? I had one.

                              Also, the Eunos Cosmo (aka JC Cosmo) came with either a 13B-RE or a 20B-RE(W?) engines. All were twin turbo. I believe this is the Cosmo he was referring to, not the original Cosmo powered by the 10A (normally aspirated).

                              The reason people use stand-alone EMS to control 20B's is because the factory ECU utilizes many different sensors to derive the best working condition for the car. One of these main sensors is on the automatic tranny. This is why you would have to use the auto tranny if you did a 20B swap into an FC or FD chassis and you were going to keep using the factory ECU.

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                              • #45
                                heys no one answered my question lol

                                how much do 13bt's go for?

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