Mid Enging Layout AKA MR

[SidewaysGts]

Mid engines dont have lower center of balances due to being mr.

Oversteer is easier drifting but understeer can be better for drifting because you can be heavier on the throttle. Just think about it for a moment; oversteering cars will natrually want to rotate as it is, getting heavy on the throttle will increase the angle and increase your chances to spin out. an understeering car will resist the turn in and require you to be heavier on the throttle.

Mrs are not superior for drifting. Ever hear of "snap oversteer"? Its what MR cars are known for. I dont have to tell yo uweight moves outward while cornering. Having more of lthe weight over the back axle, can casue that back end to suddenly go with it as the weight moves out. Predicatability and controlability are key requirments for drifting. They -CAN- drift well. but its hard and unpredicatable.

If mr is so great, why did say the skylines pretty much work the circuit world where you find cars like the mid engine nsx's?

As for f1s, i wouldnt compare apples to oranges. the charecteristics and abilities of f1 cars are far from normal cars. itd be like comparing auto cross to rally.. or..something. These cars sit on the ground with high traction tires advanced computer systems and v8s that can rev into the 5 digits, making power to weight on these thigns incredible.

[SidewaysGts]

Hit reply twice: if a mod or someone sees this delete it please.

[Darkstar]

I wouldn't compare the F1 races like that. The technological distance between an F1 racer and a road car is like from chocolate to sh*t. F1's have best times when they drive gripping the road, and not sliding through the corners. The amount of downforce generated by the front and rear wings, flat chassis undercarriage and the front and rear diffusers make drifts simply unnecessary.

One more thing: the F1's have 3liter V10 engines. As for the revs they can go up to - the last engine rev record was put by a BMW Williams car... It revved to 13.5k or something like that.

[Hachi Kid]

Originally posted by Darkstar
I wouldn't compare the F1 races like that. The technological distance between an F1 racer and a road car is like from chocolate to sh*t. F1's have best times when they drive gripping the road, and not sliding through the corners. The amount of downforce generated by the front and rear wings, flat chassis undercarriage and the front and rear diffusers make drifts simply unnecessary.

One more thing: the F1's have 3liter V10 engines. As for the revs they can go up to - the last engine rev record was put by a BMW Williams car... It revved to 13.5k or something like that.

ok, most of the stuff you said was true. except the part about drifts being un-necessary in F1 and that the engine rev to 13.5K rpm's.

F1 cars do "drift", they four-wheel drift if you watch the cars coming out of some corners.

About the engine revs, Ferarri engine revs up to 18.3-5K or something like that. the valves are opening so fast that they don't even use real valve springs. They use a pneumatic vale system in which basically pockets of air take the place of springs because real valve springs could not just take that kind of pressure for that length of time, no matter how stiff the spring may be. I'm sure it is "possible", but not realistically. apparently we don't have that kind of technology right now. just think back to the old days of F1 when the old Lotus 72E, the one with the infamous black & gold paint job and the revolutionary ground-effects, that car had only about 485HP or something like that. back then, that kind of power was just ludacris to have that in a car. but nowdays, they are some cars that come standard with nearly 600HP(BMW, Mercedes, ect.). from what I hear, the C6 is supposed to come with something like 500HP/500lb.ft. stock, and thats not even the Z06 model.

so thats what I wanted to say.














rock.

[SidewaysGts]

F1 engines size and revs are all different, it was just an example. They use large V engine that rev well into the 5 digits, some go higher then others.

And yes they do drift SLIGHTLY. WAtch a man named shoemauker (or however the crap you spell his name) VERY WELL KNOWN in the f1 world. Its not uncommon to see him getting some good angles on eneterance, but by the apex hes usually gripping as much as possible. F1 cars lose a insane amount of that downforce when the corner.

I wouldnt go so far to say "only" 485 hp though. From a huge V engine in the 5 digits, thats a lot; theyre NA i might add as well. Now compare the amount of power to the weight of these vehicles.. just insane.

As for the z06, i assume your talking about the new vette z06? That car weighs aroudn 3200 some mounds being like 53% front heavy, and making 405 horsepower off a v8 engine. Big step away from normal "muscle" cars which we think of *Censored**Censored**Censored* not only being very heavy (3200 aint light i admit, but its not a tank either) but VERY front heavy, more like 57-60% front heavy (understeer!). Very cool car.

But ya.. bottom line, Dont compare f2 cars to the cars we can get our hands on.. apple to oranges, chocolate to *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* for you ID fans. Charecteristics and abilites are as different as it coems in the lovely world o cars. (Please excuse the typos once again <_< )

[SaintDrift]

Originally posted by zerodrifter
i don't know why people don't drift more MR cars. I own a mrs turbo myself, but i havn't drifted it yet do to my obsession with my ae86 at the momoent. That and i'm rebuilding the engine. I know somone else felt this yah as weel. Do a search. I think we had a thread going last week. You should like it.

You own a MR-S turbo or are you using plural for MR? If it's a Spyder, I also have a turbo MR-S. It's the Power Enterprise turbo kit, upgraded fuel pump, Torsen LSD, E-Manage, oil cooler, hardtop. What's your setup?

[Hachi Kid]

Originally posted by SidewaysGts
F1 engines size and revs are all different, it was just an example. They use large V engine that rev well into the 5 digits, some go higher then others.

And yes they do drift SLIGHTLY. WAtch a man named shoemauker (or however the crap you spell his name) VERY WELL KNOWN in the f1 world. Its not uncommon to see him getting some good angles on eneterance, but by the apex hes usually gripping as much as possible. F1 cars lose a insane amount of that downforce when the corner.

I wouldnt go so far to say "only" 485 hp though. From a huge V engine in the 5 digits, thats a lot; theyre NA i might add as well. Now compare the amount of power to the weight of these vehicles.. just insane.

As for the z06, i assume your talking about the new vette z06? That car weighs aroudn 3200 some mounds being like 53% front heavy, and making 405 horsepower off a v8 engine. Big step away from normal "muscle" cars which we think of *Censored**Censored**Censored* not only being very heavy (3200 aint light i admit, but its not a tank either) but VERY front heavy, more like 57-60% front heavy (understeer!). Very cool car.

But ya.. bottom line, Dont compare f2 cars to the cars we can get our hands on.. apple to oranges, chocolate to *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* for you ID fans. Charecteristics and abilites are as different as it coems in the lovely world o cars. (Please excuse the typos once again <_< )

well, it is Schumacher, and I belive you are talking about Michael Schumacher currently employed at Scuderia Ferarri as their main driver. that was his last name, be specific. his brother competes as well, Ralf Schumacher, currently employed at Williams-BMW, and there is some american in the USHRA top-fuel dragster circuit with the same last name but of no relation.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they lose an "insane" amount of downforce. they lose a little bit, but remember they are going over 80-100 mph basically all of the race(except at places like Monte Carlo and maybe at Suzuka.

also, the "only 485 HP" I was talking about, was on an old F1 car back in the 70's or so. nowdays, F1 cars are making 800-950HP(until next year, they will probably be making around 700-800HP, stupid Max Mosely).

the Z06 I was talking about was the new generation C6 Z06(which hasn't been released yet), the bottom line C6 vette' makes 500FHP stock, so no telling how much HP the Z06 will be making. I say around 580-600(which is crazy)

and when I usually see Michael Schumacher sliding, it is usually when he is under braking. If it is a high-speed corner, you will see the cars evenly rolling to the outside of the turn(four-wheel drifting), but you usually don't see that on low speed turns.










rock.

[pork_poney]

correct me if i'm wrong, and i'm sure i am, i tend to be a bit of an idiot most of the time. But, isn't most of the sliding/drifting you see in an f1 car just due to loss of traction, as oposed to it being intentional? i mean, yes they're making arseloads of power, but tires aren't perfect and thus slip is going to occur, more than likely. I don't thinks shumacher would intentionally drift into OR out of a corner, for the, correct me if i'm wrong again, sole fact that, were he sideways out of a corner, he'd be wasting part of his tire's total grip. i think it's just a bear to control that much power coming out of a corner and he occasionally slips up. it would be super effective though, if he can have 100percent grip to accelerate, why wouldn't he use it?

[pork_poney]

oops.

i mean, yes they're making arseloads of power

not power, downforce, arseloads of downforce, my bad.

[14yrolddrifter]

Check out scirocco's thread about slip angles.

[doriboi86]

Dude, I can make an engine like that less than 8 g.

[doriboi86]

This post was originally to someone else whose posts are no longer here.

[zerodrifter]

Originally posted by SaintDrift
You own a MR-S turbo or are you using plural for MR? If it's a Spyder, I also have a turbo MR-S. It's the Power Enterprise turbo kit, upgraded fuel pump, Torsen LSD, E-Manage, oil cooler, hardtop. What's your setup?

i wish i had a spider. It was a typo i went to say mr2. and mine is a piece right now and will probably be parted out. It is a 89 supercharged by the way. Should get some greens for parts of it.

[blargonator]

i almost got a AW11. those are really cool. oh and please keep the colorful comments to a minimum 05m0515. you should show a little respect for honda because they make very good engines and the S2000 is nothing to laugh at. oh and i dont think anyone can make a engine like a F1 engine for 8,000. please have a little common sense because they spend so much money on those cars to squeze out every ounce of preformance. so essentially for F1 money is no object <8- )

[Hachi Kid]

Originally posted by pork_poney
correct me if i'm wrong, and i'm sure i am, i tend to be a bit of an idiot most of the time. But, isn't most of the sliding/drifting you see in an f1 car just due to loss of traction, as oposed to it being intentional? i mean, yes they're making arseloads of power, but tires aren't perfect and thus slip is going to occur, more than likely. I don't thinks shumacher would intentionally drift into OR out of a corner, for the, correct me if i'm wrong again, sole fact that, were he sideways out of a corner, he'd be wasting part of his tire's total grip. i think it's just a bear to control that much power coming out of a corner and he occasionally slips up. it would be super effective though, if he can have 100percent grip to accelerate, why wouldn't he use it?

I never said anything about the sliding being intentional, I said it because the other guy mentioned it.







rock.