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OK... LEADED fuels are OK to run on non-catalytic cars... RACE GAS :)

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  • OK... LEADED fuels are OK to run on non-catalytic cars... RACE GAS :)

    Looking for extra power? Ever heard of Race Gas?!!
    "Race Gas" is just really really high octane fuel, which burns more efficiently, and slower to provide addition power, and a smoother running engine.
    But RACE gas is EXPENSIVE, sometimes $7.00 a gallon!

    Why not aviation fuel?
    Airports sell 100 LL everywhere and it's blue! Damn cheap too!

    Airports sell the following...

    80/87 RED
    100LL BLUE
    100/130 GREEN
    Jet YELLOW (DO NOT USE!) Karocine (spelling?)

    Per gallons from $2.75-$3.75

    Now, anyone can go to an airport and BRING YOUR OWN CONTAINER and buy some gas and fill it up. It is illegal to run "race gas" or high octane gas in vehicles running on the street, only for race and track.

    Now there are 2 diff. kinds of basic automotive fuels, aside from jet fuel, diesal, etc.
    Leaded and Unleaded. What's the difference? Is it safe to use?
    ------------------------------
    "The Unites States and most other countries switched from leaded to unleaded
    fuel years ago. The lead additive, tetraethyllead, retarded "preignition"
    in gasoline engines. Preignition causes engines to run rough, and to not
    shut off when the key is turned off. The suppression of preignition is
    measured by the gasoline's "octane rating". A good high-octane gasoline
    allows a standard engine to run smoothly. Leaded gasoline also protected
    some older car engines from wearing down by covering soft engine parts with
    lead-containing material.


    Facts:

    * Lead in fuel serves as a lubricant, raises the octane rating and serves as a cushion for the valve/seat interface.
    * Most STC's, e.g. Peterson, for use of auto gas (mogas) in a certificated engine exclude the use of auto gas during the run-in and break-in process.

    Discussion: Aircraft piston engine valve seats, especially the exhaust, operate at much higher temperatures than automotive, motorcycle or other altitude challenged motors. Elevated temperatures present three challenges to the design requirements for exhaust valve seats, 1) the oxidation resistance of the material must stand up to the harsh environment created by exhaust gases, 2) the coefficient of expansion for the material must be close enough to aluminum so that the seat does not fall out, and 3) the material must resist micro welding to the valve face when the valve closes on the seat. These three requirements severely limit the number of candidate materials from which to choose. A common characteristic of all of the candidates, however, is that they have a high nickel content, a material that forms a spongy oxide on the surface at elevated temperatures.

    In the early days of air-cooled aircraft engine design, it was discovered that the spongy oxide absorbs lead that is left behind from the combustion of leaded fuel. The oxide matrix filled with lead forms a layer that not only cushions the valve face when it closes on the seat but also serves as a high temperature lubricant so the seat and valve face do not weld together. When the nickel oxide layer is not filled with lead, premature wear of the seat is a high probability. It is extremely important to have lead present in the combustion chamber during the initial hours of operation if the design life of the cylinder is to be realized. This is especially true for higher compression ratio or turbocharged engines. Once the lead/oxide layer has been created during run-in and break-in, it will maintain itself reasonably well even if auto gas is burned for several fill-ups. Based on experience, ECi strongly recommends the use of leaded fuel at least every few tanks so that the lead/oxide layer is maintained. The higher the compression ratio, the more important the use of leaded fuel becomes.

    On the other hand, lower compression engines are plagued by lead compound build-ups in the valve guides that can lead to valve sticking. The 80-87 fuel these engines were designed to use is not universally available, and some of the available 80-87 fuel has zero lead content. The original version of this fuel had up to .5 ml/gal of tetraethyl lead, which was just about right for these engines. The 2 ml/gal of tetraethyl lead in 100LL fuel is a real challenge for engines like the C-85, O-200 or O-235.

    Auto gas (mogas) has greater variables for chemistry, vapor pressure, contaminants, etc. which change with locale and season. It is not a source controlled product such as aviation gas. The adverse effects for aircraft piston engines that can be attributed to auto gas are well documented by gasoline companies and ECi as well as the engine manufacturers caution all owner operators to use auto gas only with full knowledge of the problems, appropriate care and consideration of possible limits to warranty.

    Anyway besides a bunch of facts from various sources.....
    it is OK to use on cars with no-cat's... but it must be used SAFELY and without harm.

    I have no responsibility for the actions or consequences resulting in using leaded fuel.

    But i figured maybe people would want to know a cheaper alternative, and the basics of what type of fuel can a vehicle run.
    Last edited by PrOxLaMuS© S30; 11-06-2004, 12:43 PM.

  • #2
    thanks but ill stick to chevron with techron haha

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    • #3
      You wont get any gas at an airport that wants to stay in business. the FAA says that it's illegal to sell 100LL AVgas for non-aircraft use. Most FBOs wont do it, unless you really know them well. I know this because I asked the same question while getting flight training. If you REALLY want an illegal octaine boost, use Toulen(sp?). I think it's said "tool-lean." It's a nasty solvent. You know, the kind that gives you cancer just from looking at it. You might be able to get it at a paint store.

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      • #4
        Running a higher octane gas wont necessarily give you more power. Higher octane gas burns cleaner. This means you can run more boost with less chance of detonation. But the gas alone wont make a noticable difference as far as power. Turning the boost up will.

        If you want the fuel itself to make more power then you need to make an unconventional mix. I'm not really sure about the whole cat thing (I dont run cats on any of my cars, Hawaii has no exhaust laws). or honestly how EFI would react to the types of mixes I'm talking about. Works great for Carb'd cars. When someone drives by and your eyes burn then you know they've got some real "race gas" hahahha. Crazy mixes are dangereous if you dont know what you're doing, but they do make a noticable difference in power (and I'm talkn an all motor car here).

        Comment


        • #5
          as stated may times before, race gas wont instantly give you more power. it only increases the ability for you engine to make power. i.e. dumping race gas in you tank will do nothing but waste money. you have to tune your engine inorder to benifit from race gas. (higher compression/boost etc.)

          also if you car has an o2 sensor, DO NOT USE LEADED GAS, unless you want some drivability problems.
          Last edited by bluballz; 11-06-2004, 05:09 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bluballz
            also if you car has an o2 sensor, DO NOT USE LEADED GAS, unless you want some drivability problems.
            Yes...leaded gas will not do good things for your o2 sensor. You will be replacing it...

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            • #7
              Using higher octane fuel isn't always that good as somebody might think it is. In some cases, the higher octane fuel (105 or 115 for aircraft here in Europe) made for aircraft is mixed with normal 98 octane pump gas, and that's because sometimes the temperature in cylinders rises too much (I don't know if it's true, just heard about it). If you mix 105 and 98 octane in a half aircraft/half car fuel proportion, then it gives you around 102 octanes of SAFE gasoline, which isn't that likely to rise the temperature in cylinders. Rally teams always use 102 or 103 octane fuels.

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              • #8
                Kerosene. Spelled right for you

                Just stick with the old tried and true 93 octane stuff. Hell. it's almost 7.00 a gallon now anyway.

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                • #9
                  How about Shell's new V-power? Is that any good?

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                  • #10
                    Very true about the o2 sensors as well..

                    this gas shouldn't be used ALL THE TIME unless your car is modified to use it.. or you can afford it...

                    but.. in the event that someone wants to use Race gas or Aviation fuel, just a usefull fact that it is SAFE to use, for a shortwhile, and every now and then.

                    But long term use may affect your car.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Leaded gas is great for your engine if you have no cats and don't mind replacing your O2 sensor every 10,000 miles or less.


                      Toulene and Xylene are simple hydrocarbons commonly sold as paint thinner which can safely be added to automotive gasoline to make a total content of 30%. Since they are a simple HC, they do not do any damage to the O2 sensor or the catalytic converter. See http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html for more info.




                      As for octane vs power. If you're car was made to run on 87 octane and you have not modified it at all, running higher octane will not do a damn thing. If you have a slightly modified car and/or are running in extreme environments (racing on a 120+ degree day) you might notice a slight improvement. In some instances, a car will set off its knock sensors on pump gas and the engine will pull timing causing a small drop in power. Running higher octane will keep the knock sensors quiet and will make the computer run under the most aggressive map it has. Some modern cars have this problem when using crappy california shitwater (aka 91 octane).


                      There are two main advantages to running higher octane: 1) the ability to safely run more boost 2) the ability to safely run more advanced timing.

                      So if you have the ability to add more boost and timing on your own, you can then change your car's boost/timing maps based on the octane you use to develop the most power. Some aftermarket computers and standalones even have a switch for high and low-octane maps...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian
                        Running a higher octane gas wont necessarily give you more power. Higher octane gas burns cleaner. This means you can run more boost with less chance of detonation. But the gas alone wont make a noticable difference as far as power. Turning the boost up will.

                        You can also advance the timing on the car. Cars with ECU timing will advance automatically.

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