FF Confusion

[AaronConklin]

my friend wants to get an '05 celica, but wants to drift also, what are ways to get that kind of car or and FF sideways besides E-Brake. Is there a way to make it RWD?

[Mike Peters]

my friend wants to get an '05 celica, but wants to drift also

NO

what are ways to get that kind of car or and FF sideways besides E-Brake. Is there a way to make it RWD?

he hasnt yet spent money on a problem, be a good freind and save him a headache. how much is a new celica nowadays? just buy a used 350z or GTO or miata or something RWD. seriously, be a real freind and explain to him that if he really wants to drift a FF car is NOT the way to go.

[simplyxlost]

I agree with Mike. It's not worth doing anything to make it RWD. with the money you spend on all that custom work, you could have yourself a car that's ready to drift plus suspension and all that good stuff. There's nothing wrong with FF cars cause I own one too, But i know best to not try to drift with it. Too dangerous.

[Kptrk06]

I really dont see why people think that FF drifting is impractical and unimpressive. My turbo neon is totally drift prepped, I have it a little more than 200 hp and i almost never have to use my ebrake. I had one of my mom's old boyfriends help me get the suspension to really kick *Censored**Censored**Censored*. The guy has a performance shop and had a set of used fully adjustible shocks/springs that he practically gave me for free to get brownie points with my mom. I dont know what name brand they are, they were used, they had some wear on them, but he said for what im doing they will be fine and they still perform just as well as new ones would. With those installed, we dropped the front about 2 inches and raised the rear as high as it would go, which is like 4 inches(2 inches higher than stock), if im correct. Yes, the car is at a pretty extreme rake, but neons have a tendency to have a tall rear even with stock suspension, and I think it looks okay, because I get compliments all the time and ive had people come up to me and ask if i converted it to RWD because it kinda reminds them of a raked drag car. More things ive done to the suspension is getting the camber on the front wheels out to 3 degrees and 1.5 on the rear, the rear wheels have a little bit of toe out to get that back end out...Got the front stabilizers/strutbars/swaybars as stiff as possible to get the wheels glued to the road, and I have disconnected the rear swaybar and made the back end as loose as possible. When it comes to the spring rates, I think my moms bf put them front at around 8-10 kg and the rear is around 4...shock bound/rebound is around 7-8 in the front, 5-6 in the rear. I really wish I had a digital camera or something so I could show you guys...Ive had this car for about 3 years now, working on it every chance I get, dropping every penny ive got into it and i just finished it in february this year. ive just been practicing my driving ever since at a local race track and I swear to you, with these settings, i get the back end sliding out without a problem, just as easy as a RWD car. The only thing different is that instead of countersteering immediatly as the car turns, you turn the same direction the car is spinning. It feels really weird, totally unnatural, but it works. Eventually the back end will get too far if you dont watch out and you have to countersteer like a rwd, but then you have to keep turning into the spin, then outwards, than inwards....its hard to explain when typing it. I have ONE video from 2 years ago, back when I had JUST started to even TRY any drift stuff, when I had NO CLUE what I was doing....no mods on the car at all, i still had the lame *Censored**Censored**Censored* 14" mismatched hubcaps...stock suspension...and all i did was go around 30mph and then slam on the ebrake...make the corner and end up doing a huge burnout...then I just do a U turn and go back. Literally, it is not drifting. It is nothing like how I drift now. If someone wants to host the video for me, then ill be happy to email it to you or something. LIKE I SAID, it is nothing impressive, just an ebrake slide with alot of smoke...from like...early 2003...when i was still in high school...its nothing compared to my drifting now. If anyone comes to the southern ohio area, be sure to hit me up and Ill change your veiw on FF drifting.

[Slapshotnerd]

if you think a FF car can drift half as good as a rwd car, then you don't understand the physics involved in drifting.

You may be able to get it sideways. You may be able to kick it sideways without an ebrake. But you will not be able to maintain any speed or maintain a drift around more than one consecutive corner. the pro drifters are pretty much maintaining a sideways slide around the ENTIRE course, no matter the course (alll 4 stops on the FD tour this year, all of the showoff events, all of the champ car events, etc).

[Mike Peters]

your "FF DRIFT" spring rates are the opposite of what you'd want, the rake is a good idea though, takes the wieght off the tires you want not to stick, thats part of how my civic was setup for auto-x to rotate, but your spring rates are whack.

[soultron]

If he hasn't got the car, there is still plenty of time to look at rwd cars in the same price range with similar features.

[cfrost]

AaronConklin- it's been said a million times....no to FF drifting. if he just wants to go kinda sideways once every couple of months, he can pull his ebrake...but if he wants to go out on the track and really drift...tell him to do it the right way. And no, he can't make the celica rear wheel drive. I'm sure people on forums will give you a whole speil about how you can get blah blah blah fabricated and what not, but if your friend can't afford to just get a 350z, then he's not going to be able to afford making that celica RWD.

Kptrk06- You post was really long, just post a video. Your post was too long for me to want to read, but I just want to know how you keep the rear end out and speed up if your only way to go faster is by adding power to those front wheels ...maybe I'm off my rocker but when I was on the track with FWD cars and they wanted to oversteer, I got on the gas (went faster) to straighten them out.

Mike Peters- bananaphone is that 1000 page thread on houston imports or whatever still going?

[Mike Peters]

Mike Peters- bananaphone is that 1000 page thread on houston imports or whatever still going?

it ended and we all got banned for 10 days for post whoring, it barely made it past page 10. it was a good ten pages though

[zerodrifter]

it ended and we all got banned for 10 days for post whoring, it barely made it past page 10. it was a good ten pages though

do u have a like to the thread? i want to see it

[Mike Peters]

i dont know where it went, basically it was 4 pages of some retards telling me and the other houston guys that FF is better and they could outdrift us blablabla and i just kept making them look stupid and theyd argue, and then we got bored and just started bumping the thread for no reason for about 10+ pages, then it got moved, then we got banned for 10 days.

boredom+stupidthread+spamming a link saying "whore this thread" on AIM = i think 12 banned people, and about 15ish pages of bumping and google image search results of the word "bump".

[Kptrk06]

if you think a FF car can drift half as good as a rwd car, then you don't understand the physics involved in drifting.

You may be able to get it sideways. You may be able to kick it sideways without an ebrake. But you will not be able to maintain any speed or maintain a drift around more than one consecutive corner. the pro drifters are pretty much maintaining a sideways slide around the ENTIRE course, no matter the course (alll 4 stops on the FD tour this year, all of the showoff events, all of the champ car events, etc).

I know the limits of FF drifting, and yes, RWD is capable of alot more than FWD, but if you have a good driver and a good setup, they can give them a decent run for their money. You say that its not possible to keep it sideways throughout an entire course, which I think is actually quite possible, unless there is some long straightaway. My technique for linking multiple corners is this...I use total weight transfer and braking drifts for my corners. I swear, my ebrake gets touched maybe 1 out of every 10 corners I take if im going a little slow. To take multiple corners, I start by weight transfering or braking inot the first one...when I am about 80% through a corner, right before I start to get traction back, while the back end still has even just a little more swinging momentum than the front, I pull the ebrake to get the back end out to a normal drift slide using that little bit of rear spin momentum that was left to compensate for not being able to weight transfer into the second corner that is immediatly following. To keep my speed up, I full throttle only when the car is at a slight drift towards the end of the corner, when the tires are barely even breaking traction. My dsm turbo swap helps me get alot of speed in the small amount of time I have to go WOT when exiting corners.

your "FF DRIFT" spring rates are the opposite of what you'd want, the rake is a good idea though, takes the wieght off the tires you want not to stick, thats part of how my civic was setup for auto-x to rotate, but your spring rates are whack.

Thanks for the tip with the springs, Mike. Like i said, my moms boyfriend was the one who did alot of the suspension tuning because he is one of the best installers in my area and he has tons more experience than me. Im guessing that he got the spring rates mixed up because he almost exclusivly works on old rwd muscle cars. My car was only the 3rd FWD car he had worked on in the 25+ years that he had a car shop. The day i was helping him with it, he was switching back and forth working on my car and another customer's camaro. He probably just forgot about the fwd settings...so Ill definitly have him change them up and Ill let you all know how it goes.

[Kptrk06]

Kptrk06- You post was really long, just post a video. Your post was too long for me to want to read, but I just want to know how you keep the rear end out and speed up if your only way to go faster is by adding power to those front wheels ...maybe I'm off my rocker but when I was on the track with FWD cars and they wanted to oversteer, I got on the gas (went faster) to straighten them out.

Im sorry its so long, i was just explaining everything...if you read my post, I mentioned I have ONE video, from YEARS ago, when me and my friends would just mess around in parking lots and yank the heck out of the ebrake. I was in high school and had no clue what a good drift was and i just got sideways around this corner and it smoked alot and...well....It was pretty much a pathetic attempt to recreate the drifting I did in NFSU when it first came out. The car had no mods whatsoever and I had no fwd drift experience. It is not even comparable to what I can do now. If someone could come down to southern ohio with a video camera, Id be happy to get some footage. Like I mention in the post before, I have owned a S13 coupe and learned to FR drift on it fairly quickly and i could do it well, but I always like to do things different and wanted to stand out in the crowd of silvias and rx7's and all those other rwd cars. FWD and RWD drifting are two totally different skills in themselves, and I felt like I had gotten as good as I could get with my 240 and rwd in general, and so I took the challenge of learning to ff drift. I am in NO WAY claiming to be anything near good when it comes to rwd drifting. I am good for what I had, nothing even remotly comparable to like pro D1 stuff. I will agree, rwd is much superior, but I feel more of a satisfaction when I know im doing something that so many people have something against. Thats just my nature. I always go against the grain in anything I do and I try to make the best of it I can. To answer your question about how I keep my speed through corners, read the post above =P

[Slapshotnerd]

bring your neon to FD Chicago. show us what you're made of

[Mike Peters]

I know the limits of FF drifting, and yes, RWD is capable of alot more than FWD, but if you have a good driver and a good setup, they can give them a decent run for their money. You say that its not possible to keep it sideways throughout an entire course, which I think is actually quite possible, unless there is some long straightaway. My technique for linking multiple corners is this...I use total weight transfer and braking drifts for my corners. I swear, my ebrake gets touched maybe 1 out of every 10 corners I take if im going a little slow. To take multiple corners, I start by weight transfering or braking inot the first one...when I am about 80% through a corner, right before I start to get traction back, while the back end still has even just a little more swinging momentum than the front, I pull the ebrake to get the back end out to a normal drift slide using that little bit of rear spin momentum that was left to compensate for not being able to weight transfer into the second corner that is immediatly following. To keep my speed up, I full throttle only when the car is at a slight drift towards the end of the corner, when the tires are barely even breaking traction. My dsm turbo swap helps me get alot of speed in the small amount of time I have to go WOT when exiting corners.




Thanks for the tip with the springs, Mike. Like i said, my moms boyfriend was the one who did alot of the suspension tuning because he is one of the best installers in my area and he has tons more experience than me. Im guessing that he got the spring rates mixed up because he almost exclusivly works on old rwd muscle cars. My car was only the 3rd FWD car he had worked on in the 25+ years that he had a car shop. The day i was helping him with it, he was switching back and forth working on my car and another customer's camaro. He probably just forgot about the fwd settings...so Ill definitly have him change them up and Ill let you all know how it goes.

in order to get a FWD car to properly rotate the rear must always be stiffer than the front. in a nutshell your front wheels are the only ones doing work, if you allow the front to flex more than the rear you will end up with a rear end that is tryign to flex as much as the front, yet cant and therefore one tire will not be able to have any load on it, thus less traction, which helps the car rotate. very very nutshell version of that concept but you get the idea. im lazy and dont feel like typing, although i probably explained my lazyness and typed the word nutshell more than if i had just said in a nutshell bla bla.