Streching Tires... The truth behind them?

[f8ldzz]

Running wide tires with less sidewall flex runs counter to every established theory in racing.
Be careful what you state as "fact" and what you state as "your experience", because they two does not necessary mean the same thing.
Can you guys please state your track experience?
I'm a bit curious on your backgrounds...

[tonesdef]

Originally posted by f8ldzz
Running wide tires with less sidewall flex runs counter to every established theory in racing.
Be careful what you state as "fact" and what you state as "your experience", because they two does not necessary mean the same thing.
Can you guys please state your track experience?
I'm a bit curious on your backgrounds...

can you please state yours. I was trying to be nice but everyone already knows i'm an *Censored**Censored**Censored* so here your a dumbass. You are talking out of your butt. You guys keep talking about running more psi all that will do is lift up the middle of your tire lessen your contact patch and lead to more smoke while drifting.

If you havn't noticed drifting isn't your classic racing. Your basicaly fighting with every theory in drifting. Every D1 driver uses stretching same with the BM guys. This is point less. Oh and my track back ground 3 drift days 2 years of solid drifting and been auto xing since i got a car worthy of it

[_PG_]

Originally posted by f8ldzz
Running wide tires with less sidewall flex runs counter to every established theory in racing.
Be careful what you state as "fact" and what you state as "your experience", because they two does not necessary mean the same thing.
Can you guys please state your track experience?
I'm a bit curious on your backgrounds...

Racing "fact" and drifting experience are different. In case you think the 2 don't coincide wholly, as they shouldn't.

Me?

-2.5-3 years "drifting"
-1.5 year actually hitting the tracks and devoting most of my time to it.
-1st place winner in Advanced group Just Drift! Button Willow Battle for East Loop competition
-Top 16 finish at first ever competition: Drift Day Competition 2
-Somewhere between 8 and 52 at D1DS Fontana
-Grip Video Drift Society 2 DVD feature
-Some News KCal 9 feature thing of Mark and I going tandem at the track. I don't have time for TV so i have no clue what they did with the footage
-bunch of track days between real road corses, drift parks, parking lots, infields, etc...
-even more street/touge sessions (what i love the most)

I duno if I am really "qualified" to talk about my experiences or not. I guess i don't know what's going on eh?

As for cars in general:
-Work on my own car and set it up due to MY research, MY experience and MY liking, not what someone else reccomends or "read somewhere".
-Used to be part of a Formula SAE race team building chassis, tuning engine, driving/testing formula car powered by CBR600 F4 Honda 600cc motorcycle engine. 0-60 in 3.2 sec. 6 speed sequential. Carbon fiber over steel tube frame construction. Yeah that was fun. I don't go to that same college anymore so i have since stopped that (unfortunately). But yeah, that was a lot of fun. It was cool building pushrod formula 1-style suspensions and sh!t
-Been working on cars sicne i was small... dad was a Porsche mechanic you know, typical stuff.
-Currently go to Art Center studying car design. Not a bad profession to be in for a car nut.

[BooZTT]

OMG...do I really have to do this? (it'll just take a while) Well...I come from a car family as well and ala Ken Gushi was driving before I hit double digits..even before that in go-carts. As I progressed into actual cars I of course was taken to the track by my family at any given chance for both road racing and drag racing (too boring). When I got a little older I started racing bikes (circuit and like an idiot in the canyons..but damn it's fun!) and then moved to Japan after joining Uncle Sam. That's where I learned more about drifting (I had seen a little on early Options when Keiichi had a fro)...yes before most people in the US even knew what the he!l it was. Most of my fun there was on the street since the cops there don't exactly have the ammo to catch you (not Wangan mind you..they drive little K cars and micro vans in most of our "spots"). I came back to Hawaii and kept going and helped Shimos with getting Drift Session on the map and also running SCCA Solo1 and Solo2 as well as competed in the Sport Compact Racing Series (wheel to wheel) and I always love some good touge. I run a little video company that shoots car/drift "stuff" which unfortunately takes away from my driving time accept the occasional tandem runs at Drift Session to get particular shots..which doesn't happen enough. _PG_ is one of my Padawan's (his friends drive too slow..hehe)...and also the mini-me of one of my good friends whose S14 I posted earlier in this thread. I'm a fossil..and proud of it..I've seen Option videos since they were in the single digits (whoopty-doo!). I'll also be sponsoring the Just Drift Series this coming season and am also part of a 2 car Formula D team consisting of the RPG (Rotary Power/Grip Video) FD3S driven by Ross Petty (of Team Murder Okinawa & Boso) and the Battle Garage FC3S driven by Randy Schmidt (of Society Tokyo). I guess I've had my hands in this pot for quite a while now. On both sides. I also used to work at a couple shops..first Next Level Performance and then Hypersports Racing in Honolulu. I work on my own POS and others as well when ever I get the chance, I love to fabricate. Not sure what all that qualifies me for...maybe to say I love drifting and I love bringing it to the masses.

[_PG_]

I dunno Mike.... I'm not sure if you know what you are talking about.

P.s. the first time we met when we went out for a little fun in that black S14... rememeber that? Hahaha. I wanna see that footage. I know it won't really get used for anything (maybe in 5 years you can come out with a "back in the day" video) but the camera that was on our car would have been fun as hell to watch! Hahaha.

Speaking of sponsoring Charlie's JD series.... i need to talk to you about tires and Dunlop but you haven't been on AIM recently and i kno you don't get cell reception at the studio.


P.S. i get into town the 21st. Staying on Oahu till sometime after Xmas, then heading to my dad's for some Maui togue (his S13 is finally running). Then in early January i'll be coming back to Oahu. Leave to go back to school the 9th. Well, make sure you are free this trip (when you going to TAS?).

[TwistedByDesign]

hey lindsey, this is colby, ed lius friend. dont know if you remember me but we chilled one time in long beach with aaron and watched some d1 vids and played kaido battle. did you ever get your car from hawaii here? i did formula sae in ny when i was going to school as well. that program rocks.

[_PG_]

Oh hey wassup man, how is Ed, haven't seen him for a while. Yeah i got that car here about a year ago. Then i sold it to my friend and have built up a new one (since January).

[TwistedByDesign]

eds doing good, he just built a turbo setup on his itr and is putting down about 280whp. he is thinking of selling it or trading it for a rhd spirit r rx7.

[Ichi-Go]

If you guys want to chat hit up PM's or Ziptied. I am glad to see some real talent come to this site.

[_PG_]

Originally posted by Ichi-Go
If you guys want to chat hit up PM's or Ziptied. I am glad to see some real talent come to this site.

Nazi.

How come the "f8ldzz" guy isn't posting here anymore? People actually know what the hell they are talking about and he doesn't?

[GRiDRaceTech]

Someone lock this thread, please. We've covered all the bases. I'm glad that PG and BooZTT gave their two cents, and now it's over.

[malcolm]

sorry grid, I just have to respond to what was said to me....

as to the wider tire than wheel not having a contact patch thats bs

uh, yeah... what actually happens is that if you have a wider tire than your wheel, and you run a lower tire pressure to try to increase your contact patch, then you cause the tire to "buckle". Basically, the outside side-wall will flex in, but the inside side-wall can't go any farther (I assume), so the tread folds itself. Of course, when this happens, it loses traction, and snaps back. They had a huge problem with the tires supplied at the 1972 Indy 500 and the wheels supplied. They got mixed up, and the tires were too wide. When they would go through the corners, the tires would oscillate, making a really weird sound.

I am not sure how this would work while drifting, but it is still undesirable.

Can you guys please state your track experience?

started karting in 1994. Second in a national championship in '98, and had a first and a fourth in two North American Karting Championship events in '99. Since 2000, I've been racing cars, starting off in a little AW11 MR2, then moved to a turbo FC, winning a regional championship in GT2. Then got into a Corvette, and have raced the past three years in that car. 2nd in a national GT1 championship in 2002, 1st in a Super GT series in 2003, and 2nd in Ontario GT1 in 2004. I also finished third in an American GT event this summer, and I have tested a Radical SR3 Supersport, and a Formula BMW. For next year, I might be racing in a televised open-wheel series.

As far as drifting goes, I haven't been to many track events, but I've drifted since 2000. I have a fair amount of experience there, but not tons. However, a lot of my circuit experience does cross over to drifting, and vice-versa.

If you're talking about progressive break-away, why don't we all run narrower tires? Wider tires actually make break-away more abrupt, so in essence you're fighting more contact patch versus more progressive break-away?

Thanks for just proving my point and contradicting yours.

You are correct. Wider tires DO in fact make break-away more harsh. However, they give you the traction you need while the tire is sliding/spinning. In order to combat the harsh break-away with the wider tire, you can either run lower-profile tires, or stretch them (same result).

Of course, running narrower tires would be stupid, because you could never get enough traction, and your drifts would have to be terribly slow to keep from spinning.


In concise conclusion:

wide tires = harsh break-away
wide tires = lots of traction
hipari/stretching = smoother break-away

therefore:

wide tires + hipari = lots of traction with acceptable break-away.

[tonesdef]

pwned haha


gee f8 were are you. this site is so great for internet know it alls

[mechaniac]

great thread guys! Loved it all!

doesn't beat the offset measuring thread though

...and drifting.com begs for information, that's why we have people like these guys.

[f8ldzz]

Originally posted by tonesdef
pwned haha


gee f8 were are you. this site is so great for internet know it alls

Oh, I'm still here.
It's funny who jumps in here.

Started in SCCA Solo II autocross back in 1988 - got bored with it in a couple years since Hawaii's (actually Oahu's) autocross seen was pretty stagnant back then.

I've went from a pair of Honda CRX's to an FC3S turbo.
I've own my original Turbo II since 1996.
I've since had three total, but I still have my original one.

I run my own website - http://fc3spro.com/

I know Mike.
Mike knows who I am.
I don't think I need to reply to his post, cause we both know what's up.
I've known Hypersports since they first started.
So please Mike, don't be bringing up Hypers in my face cause I knew them before you started there.

I co-founded K2RD several years ago, but the company has changed directions.

Been doing NASA HPDE on and off from 1999 to 2001 - Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Sears Point.

I know Alex Pfieffer from way back - we still talk a lot of shit till this day.
It's funny to see a lot of you worship him and the ground he walks on.

I also know Todd Ho.
One of the more notorious FC NA drifts up in NorCal.
We talk a lot of shit till this day.
I know we traded a lot of drift discussion on the FC3S back in the day when he first started a few years ago.

I current support slidingskystyle's 20B FC.
It is the ONLY 20B FC drift vehicle in the U.S. and possibly in the world, including Japan.
We do events down here on Oahu at HRP.
The car is in transition, and it's only a 20B NA making 232hp at the wheels with no turbos.
We're hoping the turbos are throw on and making in the neighborhood of 600hp by the end of next year.
More details on the car on my website listed above...

Yes, my background comes from grip racing.
I find it funny most of you guys talk about drifting like it is totally different from grip.

The books state that progressive break-away from tires are better with narrower widths and larger aspect ratios.
Low aspect ratios and stiffer sidewalls increase grip, but break-up becomes more abrupt.
Go read the books - I'm tired of repeating myself; go argue with the authors who have done the racing who wrote the books.
I'd recommend the Skip Barber Racing School manual; it's written well for different skill levels.