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I have a 1987 Integra LS that i enjoy sliding around....im getting new suspension VERY soon and i need to know what kinda spring rates i should get for the REAR. I read in a magazine that for fwd drifting a looser rear end is easier to drift; and im getting GC adjustable coilovers...what would you guys sugget for the spring rate? (oh i have t-bars in the front - 27.5mm)
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A looser rear is easier to drift? Really? I thought drifting was all about pushing.
You want the car to be stiff/very stiff in the rear... but at the same time, a "drift" setup in a fwd car will lead to instability in normal driving. Considering no one has bothered with a "drift" setup in a car that is literally undriftable, you won't get any definitive answers. Why don't you just get a good grip setup and run skinny tires out back? -
aight thanx for the helpComment
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Originally posted by THEDAMMER
It's not help. Why don't you put a CR-V drivetrain on it like our friends from the east coast?
No just kidding. Go to some street ricing site or stop talking like you're gonna drift an integra.
thats not a very nice way of looking at it. i drift my taurus all the time. FWD can drift, it just takes more skill (skill that i dont have)Comment
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( Mr. Tom ) you can't drift an FWD sorry but it's the truthComment
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X2 to this... If you look at Falken's FF driver, he's running some super wide tires up front. I don't know the exact physics nor will I pretend to, but you get the point.Originally posted by GRiDRaceTech
A looser rear is easier to drift? Really? I thought drifting was all about pushing.
You want the car to be stiff/very stiff in the rear... but at the same time, a "drift" setup in a fwd car will lead to instability in normal driving. Considering no one has bothered with a "drift" setup in a car that is literally undriftable, you won't get any definitive answers. Why don't you just get a good grip setup and run skinny tires out back?
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as soon as i posted this, someone proved me wrong. but that doesnt mean you have to go street racing just because you dont have rwd
and im also glad that someone was able to respond intelegently, rather than just swearing alot.Last edited by Mr. Tom; 12-06-2004, 01:54 AM.Comment
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^What is that?
I 3rd GRiDRaceTech's post, somewhat. To get a fwd to naturally have its rear end out, you would need to set up the suspension for oversteer. This means soft front springs and swaybars and heavy rear springs and swaybars. The greater extent you do this, the more oversteer you'll get.
So, what does this do? Well, when you start to push the car hard, the rear end will slide out on you while the front has excess grip to spare. This is because the setup will move a lot more weight on the front end when you corner. (more weight will shift forward during braking and less weight will shift back when accelerating too) Ok, it may sound like what you want...and it is, BUT the car will then become quite unstable for daily driving, if you drive hard. Any time you even remotely start to push the car hard during normal driving, the rear end will slide out on you. It's not a safe setup for a daily driver as you will make the car harder to control and possibly endanger others by wagging your tail around in traffic. You would have to drive the car very lightly to avoid breaking traction.
GRiDRaceTech and Craftsman pointed out the safer alternative. Basically, set up the car for grip. Have it handle the way you want under grip driving. The suspension can be aggressive yet stable for normal driving. Then for drifting, simply change tires. Run sticky tires up front and slippery tires in back. Do this through width changes, compounds, or just by good quality versus cheapy traction difference. What you're doing is simply giving the rear end less traction available without actually adjusting the suspension to an unstable setup. The back end will naturally slide out on you when pushing hard, but when you don't want that, you simply put good tires back on the rear.Comment
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i found this a while back and i kept it cause it seemed useful in video games. i havent had money to try on real car yet.
heres my advice for performance driving which can be used on autoX or the hills, not all driving styles are the same so this is not do or die.
Car setup for FF (namely Corolla):
-For suspension you would want to keep a 3:2 FR spring rate ratio
for example F6kg/ R4kg (I perfer 7kg/5kg)
-Do not cheap out on suspension, most springs (eibach, tein, etc.) has panzy spring rates, (meaning <3kg FR)
-Front strut bar stablizes steering by reducing chassis flex but will INCREASE UNDERSTEER
-Front and Rear Sway Bars permotes more stable steering response by keepting the tires on the road; but on FF you would want the rears at a stiffer rate than the front to PERMOTE OVERSTEER (to combat under)
-On tires you would want a larger contact patch on the front than the rear, for example 225mm up front, 195mm in the rear.. that will increase balanced steering response on our FF platform.
On to Driving:
-out in out style (apex) usually cannot be used because of road conditions, the best idea is to trace the line. (on streets)
-Do not brake in the middle of a turn, all braking should be done while entering the turn and should be finished with half way before you enter the apex. That would keep weight from shifting suddenly/drastically. This would pervent you from losing control while the balance shifts. (prepare to spin out if you try to combat lateral g's by braking at the apex.)
-Start accelerating after you are half way passed the apex, if done before you may bring in torque steer and lose the line. after that try to stay off the brake as much as possible, instead try modulating the throttle.
as always, easy in fast out.. thats the way to get the best times.
Now for off road manuvers, do not attempt on public roads.
-The most popular of all Left foot braking, this manuver dramatically shift weight to the rear during a turn. If you have the right setup THIS WILL SLIDE THE REAR just enough that you will still be able to control it with the remaining tire grip on the front wheels. i usually have 1/4 throttle and apply the brakes with my left foot right before apex, once the tuck in is completed (rear slide), 3/4 to full accelerating all while traceing the line (or trying to lol) out of the turn. Believe me this is scary as hell the first time i've did this, i haven't mastered it yet and i am not even close to being good at it.
That's all for nowComment
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dont drift fwd down here we call it "arse dragging"Comment
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Well i dont at all think FFs are really capable of drifting, To me drifting is about throttle-steer, not something an FF can exactly do. I agree with setting it up more for racing then for drifting, but i have another solution to this later.
I may not agree but ill help if i can, cars are personal vehicles tune them how you want just dont hurt people and i wont care.
Theb asics have been said, a stiffer front compared to the rear- This helps promote oversteer. I wont get into it since Drift For Food already got the details. What i WOULD like to add however is you can also mess with the rear camber and toe settings to help the rear end swing out a bit more as well. Keep in mind adjusting the rear camber wont affect your tire wear, toe settings however will.
Setting up a "grip" styled ff and "drift" ff are pretty much the same, you want to promote oversteer, but with a drift setup you want to over-do it drasticly to help as much as possible. WHat you COULD do if you wanted to run both would be to get a set of coilovers, and TWO sets of springs. You can change all the springs on a coilover set up pretty damn fast, have one for drift have one for grip (hell have one for daily driving as well if u know you wont be hitting the track!)
Minor note, but you can also keep a set of "*Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*" tires for the rear when you plan on drifting and a better rear set for when you plan on gripping.Comment
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just get a massive rear sway bar and slam the car...with a FWD that is all you need.
btw, if rwd drifting is oversteering...then FWD drifting is understeer and if you take this seriously then im gunna be scared.Comment
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that would be soo rad a fwd drift equivalent i mean imagine a fwd smoking up its front tires going in a stright line when the wheels are pointing full lock the other way- and it would be twice as scarry as a rwd on the edge at least you can counter in a rwd in a fwd youve got nothing if your understeeringComment
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