2-way lsd in the snow

[Toshiro]

i want to know if anyone has ran a 2 way lsd in the snow and how it is for controlablity. Im gonna move to colorado for college adn i want to mod my car with lsd before i go so i need to know how the 1.5 and 2 way compare on the snow

[OH240SE]

Just keep ur foot out of it in the snow or it'll come right around on u with any LSD. Be VERY careful when u drive it and if its really bad out, shift low on the powerband. Especially if ur on the mountain roads of Colorado. If you get used to it tho, you should be fine.

[Buddyworm]

My car's got the stock VLSD in it and it's quite easy to drive in the snow. Just go very easy on the gas. Shake all that lead outta your toes and then it'll be easy. If you start slipping let off the gas. Studded tires also make worlds of difference.

B-Wurm

[NeveR]

No offence but a VLSD is nothing compared to a 1.5/2 way LSD. Especially since it's cold out and chances are you wouldn't be driving fast enough to heat up the fluid and lock the lsd. It's practically an open diff in the cold.

Clutch types will lock no matter what the temp.


Be careful.

[Warped]

Originally posted by NeveR
No offence but a VLSD is nothing compared to a 1.5/2 way LSD. Especially since it's cold out and chances are you wouldn't be driving fast enough to heat up the fluid and lock the lsd. It's practically an open diff in the cold.

Clutch types will lock no matter what the temp.


Be careful.

I have a vlsd type in my car and it locks up just fine in the snow, trust me i found that out this weekend.

[_PG_]

I wouldn't drive in the snow without one. LSDs give your car more traction. I hate driving in the rain (or any weather for that matter) in friends' cars w/ open diff.

[ma71supraturbo]

a 2-way will be hell in the snow for normal driving -- everytime you coast in gear, the rear end will want to break loose.

[_PG_]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
a 2-way will be hell in the snow for normal driving -- everytime you coast in gear, the rear end will want to break loose.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Obviously not. It will act like an open diff if you simply get off the gas enough for the cam to rotate forward and unlock the rotation of the 2 output shafts.

If you are going around a corner and you give it enough gas, yeah it will step out , but its the SNOW!!! ANYTHING WILL SLIDE! Don't drive like a *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* *Censored* and you'll be fine. A lot has to do with proper tires. Don't drive the snow with summer high performance tires...

What if you had to make it up a big hill with some ice? Open diff wouldn't do it (I used to live on the east coast and in open diff i couldn't make it up my driveway). LSD is MUST-Have.

[ma71supraturbo]

Originally posted by _PG_
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Obviously not. It will act like an open diff if you simply get off the gas enough for the cam to rotate forward and unlock the rotation of the 2 output shafts.

You obviously have no clue what a TWO-way lsd is

[_PG_]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
You obviously have no clue what a TWO-way lsd is

Or... maybe i do. Perhaps i have one in my car right now.

[ma71supraturbo]

Originally posted by _PG_
Or... maybe i do. Perhaps i have one in my car right now.

if you think it acts like an open diff on decel, then you either have a 1-way or a weak 1.5


(edit: or never drive in snow)

[_PG_]

Should have looked at what i wrote in the LSD thread a few posts up (STICKY).I have a feeling i know what i am talking about:

Ok, other type of Mechanical LSD, clutch type. Clutch type LSDs use a center cam that moves under torque changes within a casing. The casing is 2 parts (L and R) and is symetrical in that sense. However, the cuts in the casing making the notches for the cam to slide in are not. That determines 1, 1.5, or 2 way LSD. As the cam slids in the notch it pushes the casing outward, which engages a series of clutch discs, some attached to the casing, some to the output shafts. When engaged, both output shafts will rotate at the speed of the casing, making both axles, and subsequently, wheels, rotate at the same speed.

Now back to the notches:

A 1 way notch is cut like an upside down triangle. While the cam can push backward against the tapered edges, expanding the casing, it cannot push forward against the flat surface. Therefore under acceleration torque (cam rotating backwards) it will lock, and under deceleration torque, when the cam is forced to rotate forward due to forces from braking, engine braking, etc.. it will just contact a flat "wall" and the casing will not expand.

A 1.5 way notch is like an upside down triangle with a more flat trangle on top of it. During acceleration it will expand the casing at one rate, and during deceleration, it will still expand the casing, but due ot the cuts' higher angles, it will require more force to move the casing apart. Therefore, only during Very hard braking will it have enough force pushing it forward to expand the casing.

Need it be said that a 2 way then is shaped just about like a diamond? Where it requires almost the same amount of acceleration or deceleration to force the casing apart. Usually, the top cuts are slightly more dramatic, making the 2 way still require slighlty more deceleration force to push the cam to expand the casing.

Ok, there is more. The more the casing expands, the more clutches contact each other, and the more the output shafts get locked into the same rotation. Now there are adjustable diffs (like Nismo SSS and GT Pro)where you can set a breakaway torque. That means that the cluch discs get moved closer together or further apart to dictate the SOFT, MED, or HARD setting. The closer the clutch plates are to each other, the sooner the output shafts, and thus the wheels, will spin in sync.



*I didnt edit any gramatical or spelling errors. Yes, i know they are there. Deal with it."

Cliffnotes: Under decel, 1-way will act like open diff... 1.5 will take longer to lock the wheels into the same rotations, and 2 way is almost instantaneous (good for drifting, not terrible for grip once you get used to it... i grip my car a lot since i drive mountain roads everyday...)

While in a parking lot or making a U-turn or whatever, 1 and 1.5 way diffs will usually act like open diff. With 2-way LSD it will sometimes actually have enough acceleration to lock. Thus making a skipping or clunking and scaring the little old ladies at Von's Supermarket. LOL. Of course if any clutch-type diff is packed tight enough or on a hard setting it should do this as well.




As for which one is best for beginners? Well, 2 way is harder to get used to, as it actually makes you understeer more during certain circumstances. It all depends on your style though... if youa re smooth a 2 way is a must. If you are like me and are into feint, clutchkick, side brake, etc etc a 1.5 is actually a little more helpful because it allows you a little bit more turning without sliding. But hey, I use a 2-way and I love it. I think i could do just as good with 1.5 but I don't feel liek taking my SSS casing apart to align the cam with the 1.5 way cuts (Nismo SSS and GT Pro are cut to be changeable between 1.5 and 2 way as well as adjust breakaway torque setting).

What it comes down to: get a mechanical, clutch type diff for drifting. Anything is good, you will learn how to use it. If a 1.5 way is $300 and a 2-way is $900 (there is no difference in price, when new this is just an example), get the 1.5 way since in this case it will save you loads of money. Even if you "want" a 2 wya. The differences aren't so noticeable that you will suck with one, and run D1 with the other....

As for 1 way, these are usually for FF cars where you don't want any locking under deceleration while turning because they already have enough understeer and locking the drive and TURNING wheels into the same rotational speed is suicide! Nothing but understeer (FF sucks for sports driving haha). Sometimes you'll see 1 way diffs used on RWD cars (good for grip i suppose) but for drifting, I like the 1.5 and 2-way because during off throttle or throttle modulation on/off it keeps the whels spinning. Soemtimes in a 1 way this would make the wheels roatate at their own speed and you can grip/lose drift if this happens. Whatever works though...

Let me be clear here cause i know what youa re going to say: "Locking under deceleration while turning" is what you'll say makes the 2-way unsafe for snow. WELL. It takes a certain force of deceleration to lock it. AKA driving HARD! if you are driving hard in the snow without AWD, studded tires and 3 diffs.... forget about it.... you are asking to crash no matter what. Even in a rally car the most dicy conditions are snow and ice....

[ma71supraturbo]

Originally posted by _PG_
Let me be clear here cause i know what youa re going to say: "Locking under deceleration while turning" is what you'll say makes the 2-way unsafe for snow. WELL. It takes a certain force of deceleration to lock it. AKA driving HARD! if you are driving hard in the snow without AWD, studded tires and 3 diffs.... forget about it.... you are asking to crash no matter what. Even in a rally car the most dicy conditions are snow and ice....

Ok, we're both on the same page. I am basing my statements on experiences driving to and from Mount Shasta, and I've had the rear end unexpectedly come out while going downhill around tight 15-45mph (dry speed) corners. It's snow, so it is easily controlable, but it can come on when you least expect it. The use of chains/snow tires, and/or grandma driving will certainly make it easier -- but a 1.5 way would be my choice for a snowy climate (Colorado based on the original post).

[_PG_]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
if you think it acts like an open diff on decel, then you either have a 1-way or a weak 1.5


(edit: or never drive in snow)

Or i have a 1 year old 2-way nismo SSS which i installed myself and recal exactly what box it came in and what notches the cams were aligned with (diamond shapes=2 way). If you don't drive like Petter Solberg, your 2 way diff should not lock on slight, lower speed deceleration.

[ma71supraturbo]

Originally posted by _PG_
If you don't drive like Petter Solberg, your 2 way diff should not lock on slight, lower speed deceleration.

I disagree, but I do see your main point. Mine is that a 2-way lsd is noticable under decel around tight corners (snowy mtn roads) and that I'd recomend a 1.5 way for all but the most experienced drivers.



Edit: I do find it ironic that the two people discussing this are from cali (not known for its snow). My experience is based on about 15 trips through snow per year (times 9 years), so while I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I do have substantial experience with rwd cars on street tires in snow.