Seam welding

[sil18015]

well i am part way thru my long journey on my drift project. i have the car stripped down as much as possible. sound deadener is gone along with all interior. i have my SR sitting out of its home and ready to get a new headgasket. put to the point...i am ready to stiffen up my chassis, i was wondering if any of you have done this to your cars? apexi's rx7 they said they drilled a whole inbetween every stock spot weld and then welded the two pieces together and grinded it back down flush. other ppl i have seen spot weld certain areas(im not sure where they spot weld) then there are some the sticth weld the seams up? can anybody tell me where all i need to weld and why? i also heard about foam in your door rocker panerls to stiffen the chassis. PLEASE help!!! thanks!

[driftxtreem]

In Japan you need to "double Spot" all unibody cars to pass inspection for most race classes. You are right about the prosses on the Apex car. They drill a hole in the TOP METAL only do not go all the way threw. Then spot weld it back. This is best done on a frame rack. Because of all of the spots that need to be welded you can actuly warp the car from the pull of the metal with each weld. When you spot the chasis you want to do all structual spots. This include the rocker pannels and the door jamb threw the roof line and a real good job includes the windshield and the side glass welds as well. For the front there is bolt on frame stiffeners for the iner fender area. one other point is while you weld cool each spot with a blow gun to keep the heat down on the metal. DO NOT USE WATER to do this you will fracture the weld and weaken the surounding metal. Another trick for a good job is to drill holes in the rocker panels under he sill plates and pour in some two part foam. I dont know what the value in english is for this. There is different stiffnesses for this product. We have put cars on wheel scales before and after, and let me tell you this is like a roll cage effect on the car without the weight. One more point on the spotwelds use a spot weld drill from a SPOTAL tool for the bit. They are a 8mm bit and it will cut the top clean and leave a nice surface for the bottom when it is welded.

Hope this gets you on your way

[sil18015]

YOU ARE THE MAN MY FRIEND!@ i think you knew exactly what i was lookin for to be answered. the foam u are talking about isnt too expensive here. it expands greatly...do u just pour it in and then if it expands out off the holes u just sand it off? caus im sure there will be some that will expand outta the panels...which all panels do u do it too? just the ones that are uinder the door sills? so in other words it would fill in where the "side skirts" would be. you are awesome man! thanks for the fast reply and excellent tech info!...im sure i will need to ask you plent more questions so thanks in advanced!

[sil18015]

i couldnt find SPOTAL tools on the internet...could u refer me to a site in english? or if i cant find it anywhere could u get me one and i buy it from you? is there anyway you could send me pics of like a stripped 240 then in MS Paint u could point out Exact spots? if i end up doing this i want to try and double spot as many areas as possible. io cant wait to get started. thanks

[driftxtreem]

Put about 4 5/8" holes evenly spaced in the rocker pannels and yes when it expandes and dries sand the overflow off. Most good foams have a 50% expansion rate so you dont need to fill the rocker, a liter or so of mix should do one side. The spot weld drill bit can be purchesed where ever body shop supplies are sold if they dont know what a spotal tool is head for the door. When you spot the car do all the way around the door openings on the body side of the car. Pay attention to where the floor boards meet the rockers this is a good place to stiffen up the car. Also another good place is the trunk area. Sand or gring all the paint away with 80# grit to bare metal and lay down 3-4 coats of heavy fiberglass mat. Over the tire wells and down into the spair tire hole. This will stiffen up what you cannot spot weld in there.

HINT when you spot weld always remove the seam sealer and paint from around the areas you will be working on . The chemicals in these products will mix with the welds and render them useless. I use a stripping wheel usaly made from SCOTCHBRITE, but there are other types you can use. Do all the surroundings with this first then drill the holes and weld them back in. For grinding I use a 1/2" air belt sander to grind them down there is less heat build up and the finnish is perfect. A 60# grit belt is best. also cool this down with air after each one.

HINT DO NOT do these in sucsesion do them random like left door one right door one and so forth. OR bottom door then top door. If they are donne in sucsesion this will also warp the body and pull at the meatal.

GOOD LUCK

[sil18015]

are u in japan right now? i wanna be able to talk to you over the phone. i want to do this right so that i dont mess anything up. i work with fiberglass a lot. i was wondering if u sand the fiberglass mat smooth after u lay it in the rear? (for looks id figure.) also how do u mark off the fuel pump area so that you dont glass over it? also are there stock spot welds on the body side of the car around the door? i dont know exactly where to weld on that part. also if u take the door sills off couldnt u just pour the 2 part foam down in those holes? and with the foam do i want the stiffest they make or like the one in the middle. i found the foam and just dont know which to get. sorry if im bothering u will all the questions. also i was wondering where exactly underneath the car should be welded? i started to clean some seams up and take the sealer off but there is still some sealer down inbetweed the two panels...do i need to worry about that ruining the weld? thanks for all the help i cant wait til this is done. Are u going to be at the D1 event in Feb are Irwindale? i believe im flyin out there to meet a sponsor of mine and he can get down by all the cars and stuff....so maybe i could see exactly what all needs done in person. and maybe meet you. thanks!! Greg Smith

[Sideways_In_SD]

Holy Sh!t!!!

This is one of the best post's I've read since being on this board!!!

That's all I'm saying..

Good Sh!t!!!

[TokyoDrifterxo7]

really great info. I was planning on acid dipping a frame. Is there any precautions or things i should take into consideration before i do this? Also i would like to know about this whole foam thing too. Damn this is gold.

[driftxtreem]

Guys look for the complete instructions later on I am up to my A$$ in work but I will post up everything you need to know.

[sil18015]

so later on u can help me out with everything more in detail??? not as if you havent helped me trumendously already. U know Chas from speedalliance? i might be at the drift event in february so maybe i could meet you.

[driftxtreem]

Originally posted by sil18015
so later on u can help me out with everything more in detail??? not as if you havent helped me trumendously already. U know Chas from speedalliance? i might be at the drift event in february so maybe i could meet you.

yea latter on tonight ill have time to go threw some more of it and maybe post some pics with it

[Sideways_In_SD]

Good sh!t!!

Hey man Chas has a lot of insight on a lot of things, but please don't assume he knows about this type of material. It's not in his scope of operation.

D-X I'll be waiting for your updates.

[sil18015]

i have talked to Chas plenty and if he doesnt know something he refers me to ppl that do. Chas doesnt bs me, he hooks me up with ppl who have knowledge.(i wasnt trying to sound rude or anyhting, but if chas woulda known the answer i wouldnt have put this thread up) D-X you are awesome for helping me with all this. this is soemthing that not a lot of ppl know about and is hard info to come by! Thanks and much appreciation. Sideways...how long u been driftin for? hows the scene by you?

[driftxtreem]

OK we have gone over the how pretty much. But lets recap. It is very important to stabalize the chasis when doing this I cannot stress this enough. A frame rack with pinch weld clamps is the only way. I have seen dumdasses do this and total there car before they even finnished. Also while doing this you can check for any bent components. Acid dipping is not needed If you want to fully restore, a good glass beed striping works fast and is cheepest. The glass beeds will not make any heat unlike sandblasting, this will keep the intact parts from warping. When we do this in my shop we charge 7k for a full front to back this is labor intensive. We totaly strip the car to just the bare chasis, all wiring components everything but the roof panel and the quarters are left. All seams are ground and prepped. Then every accesible point that we can drill the top metal is drilled and filled with a mig and mild steel wire. A spotwelder like they use when asempling is awsome but about 15k so we do this by hand. If you intend to drive and do this you can break down the areas. here are the areas and the procedures

Area 1 Door jambs.

Remove the doors and all the moldings and whether striping If you look closly there are spotwelds round markes they resemble a cigarett burn in the metal. You will want to drill and fill inbetween each one the entire diamiter of the door jamb on both sides. BE SURE TO COOL EACH WELD with a blow gun. DO NOT USE WATER YOU WILL FRACTURE THE WELD AND RENDER IT USELESS!!!!!

Area 2 under hood and inner fenders front

From the doors to the radiater support you need to do the same as the doors. If you pull the engine you will want to do the frame rails as well. Also do the strut towers and accross the firewall.

Area 3 trunk and surrounding as well as window openings.

Inside the trunk you will find the same spotwelds like the doors in the floor and around the rear wheel houses. Do all the ones that are accesseble.

Area 4 Window openings

You need to pull the glass if you cannot do this on your own have a mobile glass man remove it for you then when you have finnished and painted have him replace it for you. If he breaks it he will pay for it. Do the same as the doors hear as well.

Foam

Use the strongest foam you can find, Stay away from the can crap it sucks. I use SOLAR 2 part its a 1to1 mix and has a 50% expansion rate, It dries like fast be prepared. Drill 4 5/8" holes in the rocker pannels under the sill plates and the length of the opening, evenly space your holes. Mix the foam and use a funnle to poor it into the rockers. it will take about 1 1/2 liters to do one, this is mixed and ready to poor. Let it expand and harden. After it is hard you can sand it flat and use plastic hole plugs to make it look nice.

Fiberglass

In the trunk you will want to lay at least 4 coats of fiberglass over the wheel wells and accross the floor down into the spair tire well, and into the areas between the floor and the quarter pannels. Remember to strip all the paint and sealer before you do this as well.

POINT#### always remove any sealer and paint from any place you will be welding, so as not to contaminate your welds. After you have drilled and filled use a belt sander or a grinder with a 60# grit sanding disc. To prep for paint a 2 part surfacer can be sprayed or a 2 part epoxy sealer. You need to use somthing to treet the metal so it will not rust under the paint. I use an etch primer then a wet on wet system.

If you are going to do the full blown race fram remember to have boxes and cups with lids to put all your hardware and parts in. Mark each one with whats inside. You can take before pics so you can remember how it came apart or draw little sketches, and mark what went were.


lastly DONT BE A MORON

Use safty glasses when sanding, grinding. A welding hood and gloves. And some type of dust mask. You dont want to breath any of this. If you are going to paint this yourself us the proper components and safty eqipment as well

The more complete and profesinal you do the job the better your car will perform. It takes me about 30 to 45 days to totaly strip, fill drill and reasemble a S13- S15 this is long hours and intensive work but I garentee my work and ALL my customers a totaly satified. I can make a body strong enough to takle a H2 Hummer and still be light weight and rigid.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL THAT HAVE THE PATIANCE

If you need more direction let me know.

[prodigy]

Wow, thanks. I just read all this stuff and I may be considering doing all this, but I am not clear on the frame rack thing. So don't do it unless you have a frame rack to hold it as you are welding? Would it be possible to rig up your own, not a frame rack but something to hold the car?