Advanced Suspension Setup; (Toe? Camber? Spring Rates?) Learn here!

[turbo_blitz21]

nice thread it really helped I always needed guidance with toe adjustments.

[soblade]

coilovers and lower springs

hmm, so does tha tmean it's nto that good of a idea to put lower springs...but some other good coilovers and springs that will give u better performance?


oh hmm, btw, if you JSUT put lowering springs to all 4 wheels, does it affect the previous suspension? like when it was first bought with suspension?

[GRiDRaceTech]

If you do get lowering springs, match them with the appropriate shocks. If you just cut the springs and leave the stock, blown shocks, I will slap you across the back of the head.

[turbo_blitz21]

See what a lot of people get wrong is that they put lowering spings on their stock shocks. Thats a big mistake. Stock shocks cant take the pressure and the way the car behaves under lowered conditions. Cutting springs is even worse because you can almost never cut the springs to a point were all four will have an even ballance and cutting them causes really bad tire wear and is deadly to the whole car suspension.

[SaintDrift]

http://www.niagarapca.com/autocross/ax_doanddonts.html
I always used this as a quick and brief guide.

[Simon Danhoff]

Good article, Very informative.

Thanks,

[mranlet]

Mr. Anlet approved :thumbup:

Lowering springs like arospeed and knock off crap will lower the car but won't improve performance. if a low-slung look is important to you, a spring that has an increased rate like H&R or something would help, and unless you want to drive around with blown shocks then you'll need to swap them out for something tougher.

Even good entry-level aftermarket shocks don't like to be lowered all that much more than 1 to 2 inches. This is because all of the forces that occur when the car goes over bumps are now compressed into a much shorter motion since the suspension stroke is closer to bottoming out at neutral than it was from the factory. If you have KYB AGXs or some kind of adjustable dampening suspension (Tockico and Koni also make good inexpensive shocks) you will need to increase the dampening as the ride height is lowered.

Unless it is some sort of emergency, don't try to use a oem shock with a stiffer spring - when I took apart my CRX's suspension for the first time since buying it, I was amazed at how horrable the shocks were operating. An owner a few exchanges ago had installed some fairly decent springs front and rear but had used the stock dampening units - when I compressed the removed shock by hand, it simply stayed there...

Something else to note is that different suspension geometries have different limitations. Honda double wishbone suspensions can be lowered farther than macphearson strut types before adverse effects start to mess things up. Lighter cars (especially with lightened unsprung weight) will also give the impression of stiffer dampening since there is less mass for the suspension to support. It is this reason that sometimes you see some hardcore grassroots'ers use truck leaf springs in the back of their muscle cars or springs from much larger and heavier cars on their smaller and lighter cars.

Excellent post.

[theflatlander]

Originally posted by mranlet
Mr. Anlet approved :thumbup:

Lowering springs like arospeed and knock off crap will lower the car but won't improve performance. if a low-slung look is important to you, a spring that has an increased rate like H&R or something would help, and unless you want to drive around with blown shocks then you'll need to swap them out for something tougher.

Even good entry-level aftermarket shocks don't like to be lowered all that much more than 1 to 2 inches. This is because all of the forces that occur when the car goes over bumps are now compressed into a much shorter motion since the suspension stroke is closer to bottoming out at neutral than it was from the factory. If you have KYB AGXs or some kind of adjustable dampening suspension (Tockico and Koni also make good inexpensive shocks) you will need to increase the dampening as the ride height is lowered.

Unless it is some sort of emergency, don't try to use a oem shock with a stiffer spring - when I took apart my CRX's suspension for the first time since buying it, I was amazed at how horrable the shocks were operating. An owner a few exchanges ago had installed some fairly decent springs front and rear but had used the stock dampening units - when I compressed the removed shock by hand, it simply stayed there...

Something else to note is that different suspension geometries have different limitations. Honda double wishbone suspensions can be lowered farther than macphearson strut types before adverse effects start to mess things up. Lighter cars (especially with lightened unsprung weight) will also give the impression of stiffer dampening since there is less mass for the suspension to support. It is this reason that sometimes you see some hardcore grassroots'ers use truck leaf springs in the back of their muscle cars or springs from much larger and heavier cars on their smaller and lighter cars.

Excellent post.

I try,
i'm very pleased to know that you appreciate it, thank you.

[mechaniac]

after learning all that was posted, and then stepping away from it, after actually adjusting, modifying, and driving your own car, you will soon come to realize that the aforementioned information is not an "all ending guide" but more of a "general starting point" because the mentioned adjustments don't always play out exactly as they do in every car with every playing field.

[buddy]

can someone go over tie rods, cv bearings etc?
ya nm that pushrod...i was spacing out

[akuma S14]

can someone go over pushrods? ?

haha i space sometimes too...LOL By changing the length of the tie rods in an S chassis you can give the car more steering angle. combined w/ TCA you can use this combo to make the wheelbase a little longer too. but it the best way to get more wheel base is by moving the rear back, b/c it has way less effect on the steering feel of the car. IMO

[D1champ]

So a drift car should perhaps have a "looser" rear-end than say a track car (assuming RWD ) so that it can break traction more easily

[Delphince]

http://www.niagarapca.com/autocross/ax_doanddonts.html
I always used this as a quick and brief guide.

That's like a shorter and sweeter version of:
http://rogerkrausracing.com/overundr.html

[FreeThinker]

Front tire pressure higher: less under steer by reducing slip angels on most tires
Usable adjustment: up to 55psi hot
Symptoms of too much adjustment: no traction- tire crowned so more under steer; adds wheel spin in FF cars; jarring ride; center of tire wears out

Front tire pressure lower: more under steer by increasing slip angles on most tires
Usable adjustment: not less then 20psi
Symptoms of too much adjustment: edges of tire wear quickly because tire is folding over; feels mushy; tires chunk because low pressure means heat build up.

Rear tire pressure higher: less over steer by reducing slip angles on most tires
Usable range: up to 45psi hot
Symptoms of too much adjustment: no traction—tire is crowned so more over steer; bad wheel spin on FR cars; jarring ride; center of tire wears out.

Rear tire pressure lower: more over steer by incresing slip angles on most tires.
Usable range: not less then 20psi
Symptoms of too much adjustment: edges of tire wear quickly because tire is folding over; feels mushy; tires chunk because low pressure means heat build up

...

...Even Tire pressure helps.

Thank you so much for posting this. I have tried to tell so many people who just wont listen, but from roadracing experience this is the proper way to adjust tire pressure.

Many people think of it from the drag racing view of lower PSI means more traction..... in a straight line yes sometimes. But for cornering, absolutely not.

So all you drifters out there running 32psi front and 45psi rear in attempt to make the car oversteer more, try reversing it. Or better still if you can: 42psi all round and adjust with dampers and spring rates or anti-roll bar positions.


FYI on anti-roll bars: the holes closest to the pivot axis are the stiffer setting. The holes at the end of the bar are the softest.

[akuma S14]

I run 35 psi (cold) in the front and 32 rear (cold), when i am finished with a run my tire psi is around 38/38. just my setup that works for me. but i suck.