Brake Discs: Drilled, Slotted, Both, or Neither?

[GRiDRaceTech]

... except that it turns out to be a moron arguing with the guy who is right.

Stick to what's in this thread. It's right and you don't have to deal with boneheads.

[zerodrifter]

i have read the thread and i have a question. I here you guys taking about changing brake fluid helps the breaking. Can anyone explain how that works, and recomend soem fluids?

[GRiDRaceTech]

Certain brake fluids have different wet and dry boiling points than others. Thus, they are harder to get overheated and cause brake fade.

I use Ate Superblue, but I've heard Typ200 is the same, just without the blue dye.

[ma71supraturbo]

Motul 600 here. I have *heard* that you do not want to use this stuff on cars with ABS, but I've been using it for 10,000 miles with no problems

[malcolm]

personally, we use Motul 600 in our 2800 lb Corvette, and we use OEM calipers, OEM-size rotors (slotted, with a better material than stock), and a racing pad. Works quite well.

Another fluid I would recommend: Ford 550. You might need to replace it more than other fluids, but it's DIRT CHEAP. It was recommended by Carroll Smith (brilliant engineer, who wrote many great books, such as "Engineer to Win" and "Tune to Win". Essential material in any racers' library). Apparently, the stuff was created by Ford for people who rested their feet on the brake pedal in their Lincolns.... and voila! One of the best brake fluids around was created.

As for drilled/slotted, my brake sponsor, KVR Performance, told me that slotted rotors give a little bit more bite, because it constantly takes off super-thin layers of pad material, giving increased friction when a new layer of material is exposed. Also, modern pads do expel gas, but just not nearly as much as older pads. As for slotted rotors, the slots would account for a loss of no more than 1 to 1.5% of the total surface area. Not really much to be worried about, especially considering the advantages.

Oh, and I would suggest **AVOIDING** dot-5 fluid.... I have never heard anything good about it.

[driftfreak]

All slotted rotors do is eat up pads faster..
and give a nice place for stress cracks to start. Crossdrilled ro dimpled are worse.
Ill just stick to sold rotors and good pads.
There cheeper, they wont stress crack like slottid or cross drilled rotors and have worked just fine for me, even at tracks like Nurburg ring and normal driving on the Autobahn in my FC..
crossdrilled/slotted are good for the race car bling..and will work fine on street cars.

[blargonator]

what about brake pads such as ceramic pads or other types. i know ceramic pads take a long time to heat up for normal aplications so they are no good in actual street use. but what are the pros and cons of using metalic pads or ceramic pads?

[GRiDRaceTech]

driftfreak... I don't know if you read the post by Malcolm, but the guy races Corvettes. He brings to the table A LOT of knowledge.

Ceramic pads have extreme resistance to heat, but should never be used on the street. They simply require far too much heat to be effective.

Metallic pads have decent resistance to heat and don't require much warmup. PBR MetalMasters is a pad that comes to mind when "metallic" is mentioned. I've heard good things from casual drivers about them, but bad things from the hardcore drivers.

It seems like the best brakes to go with nowadays are kevlar/carbon-metallic with maybe a hint of ceramic. My Axxis Ultimates are Kevlar/ceramic/metallic and are excellent. Great bite when cold, but when warmed up they'll slow the Earth's rotation. They have a maximum temperature of 1022 deg F, so they're very resistant to heat. I recommend them highly. I've also heard great things about Hawk pads and I know the Cobalt Racing pads are great on racecars... I dunno about street applications. Just avoid EBC like the plague.

[driftfreak]

yes i did read the post,
and yes i have done my own bit if racing...


"Ceramic pads have extreme resistance to heat, but should never be used on the street. They simply require far too much heat to be effective."

Not true, a lot of OEM pads now days are ceramic..and used for daily duties in just about all forms of cars from sports to SUVs


"Metallic pads have decent resistance to heat and don't require much warmup. PBR MetalMasters is a pad that comes to mind when "metallic" is mentioned. I've heard good things from casual drivers about them, but bad things from the hardcore drivers."

All depends on the make up of the pad...Ive had some semi metallic and carbon metallic pads that are of such a high heat range that they are useless unless i drag the breaks for a warm up lap or so...not good for street use..

"It seems like the best brakes to go with nowadays are kevlar/carbon-metallic with maybe a hint of ceramic. My Axxis Ultimates are Kevlar/ceramic/metallic and are excellent. Great bite when cold, but when warmed up they'll slow the Earth's rotation. They have a maximum temperature of 1022 deg F, so they're very resistant to heat. I recommend them highly. I've also heard great things about Hawk pads and I know the Cobalt Racing pads are great on racecars... I dunno about street applications. Just avoid EBC like the plague."

It all depends I feel the best breaks are the ones that will stop you this quickest with least amout of heat build up time and time again....

BTW look at the pic below, thats a corvette rotor from a Lemans car at Spa-francor chaps track...can we say heat cracked?

if you need a larger version of the pic let me know...

BTW what class is his vette in?

[f8ldzz]

Originally posted by driftfreak
Not true, a lot of OEM pads now days are ceramic..and used for daily duties in just about all forms of cars from sports to SUVs

Wow, do you have proof of such claims?
Ceramics really have nothing to contribute to friction coefficient, but they do have good heat rejection properties.
Most ceramics are abrasive, so significant amounts of ceramics in brake pads would make for a very abrasive brake pad that should eat brake rotors.
I doubt OEM's would bother with such "exotic" technologies.
OEM's would prefer great low temp performance while being brake rotor friendly.
Higher temp performance is sacrificed...unless you're Porsche or Ferrari.

All depends on the make up of the pad...Ive had some semi metallic and carbon metallic pads that are of such a high heat range that they are useless unless i drag the breaks for a warm up lap or so...not good for street use..

It's been always a sacrifice between low temp use versus high temp use.
I've never seen a brake pad offer great "0F" performance versus it's performance "at temp" at 500F or higher.
Thus, if you're running "track brake pads", I'm assuming some trade off in terms of low temp performance.
I've been on Porterfield R4S and Hawk HPS and HP+, and they all suffer from low temp performance.
That first stop after you drive the car sitting overnight might be a little vague, but stopping after that should not be a problem.
Most "race" brake pads will offer okay low temp performance, but it should eat brake rotors in a jiffy - i.e. Hawk Blue.
Most "semi-metallics" are like this.

[driftfreak]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by f8ldzz
[B]Wow, do you have proof of such claims?
(snip)
[quote]
the second part of your statment i agree with compleatly, and it is very true.
I use HP+ right now on my FC and they do really well for what they are..

BUT yes as with the Cermaic.I dont have any proof as of right now, I will try and do so as soon as possable. The reason i know this is I work In outside sales for a auto parts chain, and deal with a LOT of local shops..and we have to know what goes on what as far as the pad make up..
and it seems a lot more cars are now equiped with Cermaic or cermaic blend(which i should have stated) brakes..
reason beaing is quiter stoping and less dust issues for newer cars..

[ZeekSlideWays]

Originally posted by hatebbobbarker
has anyone seen rhys millens brake setup?
its wild.

i havent...would you mind posting a pic?
or describe it? or.......

[Ramair-WS6]

Originally posted by f8ldzz
Wow, do you have proof of such claims?

Proof

[Legit]

ummm, both?

[GRiDRaceTech]

Random postings won't get you anywhere, bud.

WS6- An article on the Tire Rack's website is not proof.