Grip vs. Drift - The How and Why to Understanding Slip Angle Dynamics

[scirocco]

lol thanks dude, but that is still very helpful info

[4WD-4WD]

Originally posted by scirocco
i even used to do that in go karts.... kind of manji drift or whatever in front of people... they cant pass you but they gotta slow down.... people didn't like me

One time I was triyng to drift at wide angle in a go-kart I was going about 30mph and this guy was going outside griping, my tires gave out and we crashed at the end of the turn.

[fsr]

Quite good topic, allthough a bit too theoretical for most rookies I suppose. To fully understand the physics of a race car, you must go into equal detail on every other part of the car as well. Not even racers get that technical. That's why they have race engineers

Still, I really second the advice to go grip before drift. I come from grip racing, and adapting to drifting was quite easy. I know the lines, I'm used to the speeds and I have decent car control. So it was just a matter of adjusting my style. I see so many drifters that lack the basic skills. They enter the corners at the wrong speeds and they're nowhere near the racing line. Looks bad...

Also, I have a little off-topic story on how to take a chicane with curbs. At the Brands Hatch Indy curcuit in the UK there is a fast chicane just before a corner named clearways. Back when I raced single seaters, the curbs in this chicane was quite rough at the apex, forcing you to be careful not to upset the car while braking for clearways. On my first race there I walked the track with my team manager and we stopped to have a look at the chicane. We then found that there was a few inches on the inside of the curb that where quite smooth. We then saw an opportunity to be a little crazy

So what we did was to replace the skid plate underneath the car with one that was twice as thick. We went out to qualify and when I got to the chicane I did what we had planned. I actually aimed for the curb head on. The curb was wide, and I could actually get the rough part under the car without having the inside wheels on the grass. Instead, the floor hit the roughest part and launched me slightly airborne in a straight line, letting me take the chicane with almost no steering effort whatsoever.

I was third in that qualifying session, but that was overall. I raced a Formula Ford 1600 in a mixed field with the new 1800's! The next 1600 car started eight, more than a second slower than me. In the race, I did even better, taking the win in the last corner

Those where the days...

[scirocco]

thanks, man. In reference to your first paragraph, I find that many people on this site want to know this info so i decided to really get into the nitty-gritty on this one (partially thanks to malcolm) and so far the votes speak for themselves

[scirocco]

If anybody else has any more suggestions I would love to hear them.

[Ichi-Go]

First off Dave Coleman I LOVE YOU!


This was very informative but the people that need to read it wont take the time to read it. If anybody has ever been to autocross slip angle is very evident. Mustangs and Miatas like to come through gates sideways they have the back out 5-10 degrees the entire time it looks sweet going 60 accelerating with the back fighting to keep up.

[Craftsman]

Still no mention of Dave Point...

Sad

hehehe... You love your thread here, don't you?

Matt.

[scirocco]

lol so you've noticed how whenever this thread is dead for a few days, I post something.... damn... btw check the thread near the bottom of my post

[Craftsman]

hahaha. Thanks homie...

You should use it to explain the scrub radius and stuff like that though. You can also explain torque steer with it. It also helps explain why drifting comes natural to some cars and not to others.

When you throw your car into a turn and your steering turns by itself into the turn, that's the Dave Point in action. It's the point of the tire where the scrub radius ends. This point coincides with the arms or something of that sort. I don't exactly know what it means, so someone help explain it here.

Matt.

[scirocco]

Wow, you are absolutely right. Since I already know how all this works I never thought of how not everybody here is as knowledgable as you or me. I will definitely post the alignment link and the Dave Point links, but I'm too lazy to do any explaining myself... think I'll just copy and paste from that old post. By the way, I was just screwing around, I realize how dumb it was to just put "Dave Point" in the middle of it, I was just joking. You win. It's in the thread.

[Craftsman]

hahahaha

Dave Coleman is my hero dude... I decided to become a mechanical engineering student because of this guy. I'd read his articles and become inspired to do more as a student to learn about cars and how they work.

Matt.

[SilviaLove]

ahh..i remember that article. Your going to have to find that old SCC and scan that technobable because i don't think the article can be found anywhere else. Matter of fact...I have that magazine somewhere maybe i can find it...I'll get back to you on that.

[SilviaLove]

wow..i can't believe that it was this article is 4 years old. Rather than digging through my old magainze stack, I made a quick search on the SCC website, to my surprize it was archived <A HREF=http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/editors/technobabble/9909scc_technobabble/"target_blank=>The Dave point</A>..you got to love the knowledge this guy brings.

[scirocco]

Umm... okay SilviaLove, I've already posted the link 3 times in this thread... you didn't need to search

[SilviaLove]

My fault i just looked at the last few posts.