FF Cornering

[oki_dlifter]

Re: FF Cornering

Originally posted by AusStreetRacer
If I'm using the handbrake to correct the understeer of my FF, should I oversteer, slam on the handy to bring the arse around to oversteer (effectively putting the car about 45 to the direction of travel, then countersteer, or should I simply steer where I want to go and hit handbrake to bring the arse around a bit to help me to go where I'm going.

the first thing, and definately not the second. try the second one going to fast and you'll be paying allot at a body shop.
the way i see it, it really depends on the corner whether or not you use e-brake, small and tight to medium and tight, i personally use the ebrake, but large i only use cornering and brakes to loosen up the rear, but large and uber tight i use the ebrake half way along with lots of acceleration.
the secret to 180's is to not use your brakes!! (unless you f up) just trust your self and the e-brake

[SilverGhost]

my friend got pretty good at that whole balance with the ebrake thing in his civic, and it did improve his cornerng speed jsut a tad, but then once we started really pushing it, he found it overloaded his tires way too much and it eventually caused him to spin out of control and slap the inside of the corner just by barely touching the ebrake...that one mistake caused him about 3 thousand dollars to fix.... so its up to you, it can be helpful, but only to a point...

[Dragoon]

E brakin should only be used on sharper corners for the most part (also helps when you cant turn the steering wheel fast enough on most sharp 180 degree style corners). pending on your cars setup- left foot braking should be plenty for most any other corner.

and ya- over doing in WILL over-load your tires and they will cr@p out on you. so choose carefully what corners its needed on and when other techniques will suffice.

[Parry]

I agree with everyone else.

The ebrake should only be used on very very tight corners that are so low speed that it's actually quicker to rotate the car that way.

The only time you want to be ebraking out the rear in a corner is when you've overcooked and are going to end up in the woods. In that situation ebrake induced oversteer could help you burn off speed and rotate the car.

Also, like Dragoon and others have said a little touch of left foot braking should provide the effect you're trying to get out of excessive use of the ebrake.

File this one with your upshift theory.

[R2K]

Originally posted by Parry
I agree with everyone else.

The ebrake should only be used on very very tight corners that are so low speed that it's actually quicker to rotate the car that way.

The only time you want to be ebraking out the rear in a corner is when you've overcooked and are going to end up in the woods. In that situation ebrake induced oversteer could help you burn off speed and rotate the car.

Also, like Dragoon and others have said a little touch of left foot braking should provide the effect you're trying to get out of excessive use of the ebrake.

File this one with your upshift theory.

Its true Ebrake are better for tight corner... im an FF drifter, so i know... and its true if you end up gonna hit a tree better e brake... because i brake w/ my feet yup i hit a tree. so noe i use ebrake to give more slide...

[SaintDrift]

Originally posted by SidewaysGts
I wouldnt suggest trail braking too much; it can get you out of a jam if you enter too fast so its good to know.. but once again theres that whole tires can only do so much thing. much more effective to stop in as straight a line as possible, then turn in no gas, no brakes, just let the tires do all they can to turn the vehicle. Once yourp ast the apex start getting back on the gas.

I'd tend to agree if it was my car. Trailbraking is a good way to spin, but if he's understeering, trailbraking will give him more grip up front during turn in as well as allowing him to do some late braking and have crazy entry speed.

[SidewaysGts]

My point being its just something to do if if youve messed up or are trying to make a pass, if ur on ur own though and speed is the key thing in mind, theres better methods. The times when using the ebrake in an FF will promote faster times is the same situations where full out drifting (not talking slip angles here) a rwd platform will also be faster.

[Drift For Food]

Well, running fwd for the vast majority of my driving years, I was hoping to provide some advice. Unfortunately, I think everything's been covered.

From the way you sound, you seem to know enough. I think it's just the clout of the e-brake. I don't think it's your answer. I think you're looking in the wrong place.

If the car doesn't behave like you want it to, change it. Change your setup. Your technique can only accomodate so much. Your setup will limit how much you can push your car. If you find the car holding you back, improve it. From your discussions so far, you mention understeer as most of your problem. The higher rear tire pressures should help some. As well, think about a slightly higher rear spring rate or softer front rate. This will help your turn in. The rear swaybar will help during the heavier cornering when there is more lean and sideways force for the swaybar to counter. However, on the inital turn in, there's little sideways force. Other factors have a greater effect, things like shock rates, toe, and such, things that affect handling before the suspension gets loaded. It's all quite complex as many things add together at different times to produce an end result. Try thinking of how weight moves around your car as you take a corner. What factors come into play at which point through the corner. You should find your tuning answers there.

If price is a concern, stay with the cheap/free tuning aspects like tire pressure or simple alignment adjustments. Otherwise, it's all driving technique.

I think everything's been covered there. Brake hard before the turn, bleed off speed through trail braking into the corner. If right, the brakes reduce to zero by apex and throttle starts. This may vary some buy car setup of course, to accomodate for understeer/oversteer at various points. Throttle goes on lightly and progresses to full and you straighten out. Work the traction circle. That's all you can do. If you find the rear having too much grip and you can continuously hold the front at its limit, a setup change is needed. Technique won't get around this.