S13 reduce grip rebound that causes fishtail?

[mello88]

I have bone stock 1990 240sx S13. When drifting the car, the rear tires will "hook up" again at the end of the drift and the rebound of grip throws the car the opposite direction causing fishtail. I know this is feint technique, but I've found it's very hard to drift the car without this happening... So I'm curious for ways to reduce this effect? Obviously as the rear tire tread wears down this should be less and less of a problem, but I also feel this has a lot to do with the suspension, considering that the stock setup is pretty soft. I'm leaning towards Koni adjustable yellow struts and a set of coilovers.

I would also like some suggestions for driving techniques that can help reduce this

Thanks for your input

[raging panda]

its mostly the fact that you probably have an open diff. An lsd will keep the tires spinning and they wont catch at the end of the drift.

[SilverGhost]

i have also noticed this effect in my 91, but i usually just go with it and continue the fishtail into a choku dori type of sliding. that sort of thing is god for a parking lot, but in a touge or battle type situation it would be no good.

the open diff thing makes sense.....i suppose that i should get a lsd along with the CA18DET......

anyways, it isnt your suspension because mine does the same thing with kyb AGX struts and 5zigen lowering springs and strut bars......

[nissanguy_24]

You need to be quicker on your counter steering and correction. You have to stay on top of that rebound. Or use it for another turn.

If you cant solve the problem threw skill then your skill is not yet good enough to warrant upgrading the car.

i dont mean to sound harsh because it is one of the hard parts of learning to drift.

[mello88]

The VLSD swap will be done sometime in the near future, thanks

[mello88]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
You need to be quicker on your counter steering and correction. You have to stay on top of that rebound. Or use it for another turn.

If you cant solve the problem threw skill then your skill is not yet good enough to warrant upgrading the car.

i dont mean to sound harsh because it is one of the hard parts of learning to drift.

Hi

I can use it for another corner, it's that sometimes there just isn't another one and fishtailing down the straight isn't needed. I'll practice more on my countersteer, but during the drift the car feels balanced and everything just feels right. Once I try to straighten back out though the rear will hook up and cause this... So I guess I'm asking to make sure that it's something that I can fix with skill as opposed to needed LSD + suspension done (which will happen in time anyways). Just lookig for some suggestions, thanks

[mello88]

Originally posted by SilverGhost
i have also noticed this effect in my 91, but i usually just go with it and continue the fishtail into a choku dori type of sliding. that sort of thing is god for a parking lot, but in a touge or battle type situation it would be no good.

the open diff thing makes sense.....i suppose that i should get a lsd along with the CA18DET......

anyways, it isnt your suspension because mine does the same thing with kyb AGX struts and 5zigen lowering springs and strut bars......

Hi SilverGhost

I've noticed it every time I've slid the car since I've owned it, normally the suspension feels "okay" although a little soft. But near the end of the drift when the rear hooks and transfers the weight the car feels like it has godawful body roll and I don't think the suspension is helping me out here.

LSD would no doubt make things a little more predictable

[nissanguy_24]

Well the thing about using it for another turn is, if you cant control that rebound its hard to really use it safely for another turn.

Because i dont think out alot of what i do when i drift i just do it by experience, give me a few minutes to actualy think out the solution to this.

[mello88]

Yeah if you don't watch it you'll end up spun out facing the wrong direction. I can usually control it and straighten the car back out, but it just seems like a waste of time and energy and makes me feel like I'm not doing something right. I've watched many other people and cars drift and I don't usually see them with this problem.

I think the LSD would help tremendously, because that is most of the (mechanical) reason why this happens. The rest is skill and comes with time, I understand that much at least .

In the mean time is there anything I can do to help eliminate this problem? It's feeling like I lift off the throttle which causes this, and that I should slowly easy off to regain grip... But nothing I've tried so far has really helped. And FWIW I don't ever just lift unless I _want_ the car sideways....

Thanks everyone for the replies

[nissanguy_24]

Well i used to have this problem. I still do on a rare ocasion when im distracted or my steering isnt quick enough. But most my drifts even at highspeeds 60+ miles an hour are very smooth A perfect drift is always smooth.

And i am still running an open differential. It isnt perfect, but neither am i yet.

[mello88]

How long have you been driving your 240sx?

What about lower speed drifts at say 15-30mph, do you ever have this?

On a side note I wish to hell the 240 had cupholders, this wicked fishtail caused me to spill my coffee EVERYWHERE this morning

[nissanguy_24]

I ment to post there here but did it by mistake on another thread..

Alright i've been thinking about it, and hand drifting all over my desk... This bebound comes from too much counter steer into the corner.

Lets say you enter a corner your tail comes out 45 degrees, and you counter steer 65 degrees. When you regain grip your going to be moving forward with your wheels pointing some godawful direction, so the force will throw the rear into the other direction.


What you need to do is either counter steer less or begin to straighten your steering out as you regain traction.

it wont be easy, its all about steering and timming.

A lsd will make things more predictable, but you can still get further along your drifting quest by practicing until you got that down how is.


__________________

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by mello88
How long have you been driving your 240sx?

What about lower speed drifts at say 15-30mph, do you ever have this?

On a side note I wish to hell the 240 had cupholders, this wicked fishtail caused me to spill my coffee EVERYWHERE this morning

It doesnt have cup holders for a reason, dont have any distractions while your driving hard. And if you fishtailed under normal driving you need to be more careful.. also try taking out the ash tray.. makes a good cup holder.

I have been at it for over a year now.

[SilverGhost]

what technique are you using to drift? i have only noticed the whip back when im cluch kicking, and i only do that when im showing off and creating lots of smoke.....when i have brake drifted, the 240 comes out nice and easy and really solid too. it may the difference in speed, and how much coutnersteer you are using.

i would say that you shold find a really big open lot, get some comes, make a few corners of varying sharpness, and practice some high speed slides. make sure you hav plenty of tread though, as the more speed you slid with, the more tread you burn.

hope that helps, keep up the good work.

btw, i got my 240 in august, but i have been drifting for around a year. i used to slide a 82 datsun 280zx 5 speed....you think the tail whip is bad on the 240, oh man, that z had wicked whip....i mean i would slide it in the lot at like 25, and i would enter and execute just fine, but then when i exited, anything more than donuts or fishtailing, the exit would put me around 360 or 180....it was very hard to control, and then when i got in the s13, it seemed like a piece of cake to slide.

[SilverGhost]

a little trick i use for low speed drifting too, is when exiting, let the wheel slip in your hands just a little, this lets the cars straighten itself out. it is really handy down low, but i would NOT suggest it for annything about 30 mph. and if you are street drifting, dpot do this..if you hit a bump while letting the wheel free, you would be facked.

thats just a little something ive learned....good luck