Heel and Toe?

[RyanHampton]

Hey Malcom,

I am going to be in Toronto for the drift event on the 1st of August. do you know anything about this?

[malcolm]

yep, it's put on by driftnation... (www.driftnation.com) it's a Canadian drifting organisation, and it's the only one sanctioned by a motorsport body in Canada. I am not sure if it's still a US-D1 event or not (heard some rumours it isn't anymore), but it still should be a good event. As far as I know, it's a drift battle.... Mainly for amateurs, but not sure. It will be held on the Driver Development Track at Mosport, not the big road course. (the DDT is actually the karting circuit I raced at when I was younger... it's pretty wide though, and should be good for drifting)

I won't be able to make it there, because I am racing at the GP de Trois Rivieres, in an open GT class...

[Craftsman]

Amazing what a discussion about heel toe became a discussion about drifting vs. traction...

Thanks for the details and the information. I read through it all and I learned quite alot. Hopefully I'll be able to be able to drive and be hotshots like you guys...

Matt.

[malcolm]

I swear, the key to being good is experimentation... Try slightly different lines... Try doing different things if you feel that the car isn't behaving like you want it to. It drives me nuts when I see people make the same mistakes (ie. wrong lines), lap after lap, because they're afraid to try anything different.

Get to know your car, and how it feels... try to feel your way around a track. if it feels like the car is abnormally twitchy through just one corner, then try a wider line or something.

Case in point... a few years ago at the Brazilian GP, it started to rain mid-race. Everyone pitted, and Schumacher was in the lead. For the next three laps, Schumacher was about 2 tenths faster or so... Then after those three laps, he was suddenly about 2 seconds faster. The commentators were mystified, but I realized that for those first three laps, he was experimenting. He was trying different lines around the track to see what was best. After he found that, he pieced all the good parts together, and decemated everyone. From there, his experimentation was more subtle; he was trying different lines by a matter of inches, as opposed to entire car-widths.

[SilviaLove]

I decided to come back and see how this post came out after Malcoms large post about grip/slipangles and such. It's good to know that there are people with creditable knowledge on this board, thanks for all the info.

[Craftsman]

Originally posted by SilviaLove
I decided to come back and see how this post came out after Malcoms large post about grip/slipangles and such. It's good to know that there are people with creditable knowledge on this board, thanks for all the info.

yea, I'm learning alot about driving from these guys and their debate here...



Matt.

[chuaboi36]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by URMachines
chuaboi36- heel toe is a process of downshifting and rev matching so you dont upset the driveline and weight transition. the process goes as follows:
1.push brake firmly and steadily
2.push in clutch and down shift to the desired gear
3. while still holding the brake, with the side of your foot(heel), blip the throttle to rev match the tranny for the higher gear,and release clutch when the revs match

it sounds a bit confusing but after a days practice, youll be good.
ive been doing it so long now it is 2nd nature and i cant drive normally with out it. [/QUOTE

thanks, big help i have a alot better understanding after doing research

[scirocco]

Originally posted by GRiDRaceTech
Well, there's a certain slip angle (the angle of the tire's path to the car's true path, in a very simple nutshell) range through which the tire operates at its peak. (6-10 degrees for most race and high-performance street tires, usually) Below that range, the tire is being under-used and is not delivering full grip. Above that range, the tire is being over-used and is not delivering full grip. We consider over-use to be a fully sliding condition. In truth, the fastest way around a track is in a very subtle four-wheel slide around every corner to utilize the tires to their fullest. If the front tires are at a higher slip angle than the rear, then the car is understeering; if the rear tires are at a higher slip angle, then the car is oversteering.

Thus, drifting/excessive oversteer is not usually faster than grip except in instances when understeer is severe. (Very tight turns, mostly) I use initial oversteer to rotate my car and get it pointed the right way, and to overcome understeer.

Confuscious say: Tire sliding ever so much faster than tire gripping absolutely or sliding greatly.

YES! this is the explanation this site needs... make this post a new thread and it should be made sticky. i belive this builds on what alex said about 10% slip being best. it must have something to do with the diagonal path across a tire's contact patch (which is essentially a rectangle wrapped around a circle) being farther than a straight path through the contact patch... and yes i think the whole downshifting in the middle of a drift is cleared up and when i had my hachigo i would downshift in the middle of a drift if i made a mistake. but my scirocco has a CVT so

wait a second... i just realized something: this means that understeer is faster than grip since you can get that slight angle of drift on the front tires in a FWD

[scirocco]

actually, traction control is more accurate then regular driver control since it is perfect. If all drivers were perfect like a computer for traction control, you would get the slight amount of slip you get from turning with lateral grip... now i understand...

[malcolm]

wait a second... i just realized something: this means that understeer is faster than grip since you can get that slight angle of drift on the front tires in a FWD

haha, not quite... a slight drift angle helps more because it assists in rotating the car through the corner. With understeer, you aren't getting the car to rotate as much. It would be a lot better if you could get into a true four-wheel-drift, where it is neither understeer or oversteer, and all four wheels have that ever-so-slight slip angle.

[scirocco]

ya i figured so since whenever my friends cars understeer at all it is just that: the car is steering not as good as it does on grip or drift driving.. thanx anyways malcolm!

[scirocco]

Originally posted by malcolm
I swear, the key to being good is experimentation... Try slightly different lines... Try doing different things if you feel that the car isn't behaving like you want it to. It drives me nuts when I see people make the same mistakes (ie. wrong lines), lap after lap, because they're afraid to try anything different.

Get to know your car, and how it feels... try to feel your way around a track. if it feels like the car is abnormally twitchy through just one corner, then try a wider line or something.

Case in point... a few years ago at the Brazilian GP, it started to rain mid-race. Everyone pitted, and Schumacher was in the lead. For the next three laps, Schumacher was about 2 tenths faster or so... Then after those three laps, he was suddenly about 2 seconds faster. The commentators were mystified, but I realized that for those first three laps, he was experimenting. He was trying different lines around the track to see what was best. After he found that, he pieced all the good parts together, and decemated everyone. From there, his experimentation was more subtle; he was trying different lines by a matter of inches, as opposed to entire car-widths.

i remember that race i loved it!

[Heav3nzHell]

Give it a go ladies and gentlemen. If its not your style then dont do it but if you like it then thats ok too

[Thai Juku]

Never got an e-mail from this thread in a long time...I guess ^this^ guy wants to close it...