Non-ABS Drifting

[Drift For Food]

Yeah, I've heard the let off thing before. You can get away with a very short lock up time before the ABS kicks in. You can let off and hit the brakes again to get lock up again, but I think it's somewhat futile with the time it takes to do it. Full brake, no brake, full brake, no brake...is kind of goofy. It seems like a waste trying to get around ABS trying to do so.

[AlexPfeiffer]

You guys have alot of your information wrong.

First off, if you lock up the tires, you get no traction. What gives you traction is the tire being able to grab the road. A non spining tire is just sliding accross the road. Its the same as burning out, the tire looses traction hence it is able to spin on the road.

What ABS does, if you brake too hard and loose traction or lock up a wheel, it will pulse the brakes by means of brake pressure. This allows the tire to keep traction in that it will keep it rolling and not lock up which will make you slide off the road or hit something. This is great for someone who doesnt know how to drive. This is why when you slam on your brakes, you will feel them pulse as you hit the traction limits set in the abs computer.

Now traction control, that is completly different these days. Usually done with multiple sencors and computers in that will tell when the car is over rotating and such. The computer will do multiple things from slowing the car down by taking out some throtle control and using the abs.

Now for drifting, you dont want ABS or traction control. The car will freak out once your sideways and trying to use the brakes and most of the time force the car to go straight. And locking up the front tires is a technic you use in comps.

In racing, a good driver will be fast ether way but the abs can be an advantage in the rain.

[nissanguy_24]

Really in the rain? are modern abs systems "tuned" for the rain? i have heard stories of ABS on gravel and seen some braking test where the abs was just horrid in gravel, but did good on pavement, i guess the explanation being they never designed the abs system to work in the gravel. so i assume its 'pulsing' isnt 'tuned' for gravel. Where as a human can feel it out and apply braking pressure depending on how the car feels.

That said i find it odd that abs systems are superior in the rain, are they designed for it? seems like that would make sense rain is when most regular (and nonregular) drivers get into trouble.

[AlexPfeiffer]

older abs only worked off of wheel sencors only and where not that accurate. Thats why they worked different on rain and gravel.

Todays systems are integrated with the motor. Mostly with throtle by wire systems where it will close the throtle body if you do any kind of irregular driving like hitting or riding the brakes and turning (trail brakeing) or the car starts to over rotate. The system will add brake forces to one or more of the wheels without you knowing it. Not good for race driving but very good for keeping you safe on pubic roads.

[Craftsman]

Rob / SMC. It's car dependent. The ABS computer need to be tuned for each application. The reason the cars suck in gravel is because the ABS computer is not tuned for it. Most automakers plan on cars being used in rain and on concrete and not in dirt. They're also tuned for snow.

This has to do with Control Systems and how the computer has to read the sensors and detect loss of traction. It's quite difficult as all cars require different transfer functions (equations of how to react to different situations) for each application.

Gravel is not something most OEM automakers have to worry about.

Matt.

[blargonator]

what about traction control. i cant really think of many cars. i know the RSX type S is tuned for safety because when you are in neutral (spelling?) you cant get the rpms above 5,500 or 6,500 i cant remember. i think i read something in sport compact car about readjusting the speedometer if you get larger or smaller wheels (in general) would that affect the A.B.S.

another thing is did the S13 always come with A.B.S.? because it was standard in 92 right? oh and i live in Michigan and it sometimes creates horrid situations in the roads that are covered in a thin layer of slush. personally i would rather get the habit of doing that stuff myself.

[Craftsman]

You don't want the S13's ABS...

From what I understand it's sucky... Dave Coleman was saying that in his S13 article. He said avoid the S13's HICAS and ABS... The only cool thing about the HICAS was the fact that that was the only version of the S13 that came with an LSD. LSDs only came with the version with the HICAS.

I believe most of the drifters turn off their HICAS... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Now, I know the HICAS on the Skylines are badass... That's what everyone says. My question... does it suck that bad on the S13s?

Matt.

[SilverGhost]

from what i hear, the hicas on the S13 works really good if you are doing something like autoX...its good and helpful as long as you are doing some hardcore grip driving in your s13...but the moment you go to slide it, you will hate the hicas forever. the hicas system acts like 4 wheel steering at high speeds, so you can do stuff like ebrake drifts at low speeds, which is fun for like 10 minutes, but then when you try to slide at higher speeds, like say a braking drift at 60, the 4 wheel steering kicks in, and it just starts to pull you into a grip mode, and if you are taking a drift line, it might be bad, cause i would imagine that would create mad understeer if you werent planning on it working. so for AutoX i recomend a Super Hicas S13, and for Drift, i recomend R(P)S13 SE (non Hicas) with an aftemarket LSD

[blargonator]

you guys still did not answer my question. did the S13 come stock with ABS for the entire time of its production. like 89,90,91? that is what i mean.

[nissanguy_24]

I too find it funny that such a tiny percentage of S13 owners have ever drove a hicas s13 in america.. so few came with them... yet everyone knows for a fact that its the worse thing for drifting.

[Craftsman]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
I too find it funny that such a tiny percentage of S13 owners have ever drove a hicas s13 in america.. so few came with them... yet everyone knows for a fact that its the worse thing for drifting.

Hey, I hear well that they work well for the Skylines...

Matt.

[GRiDRaceTech]

No S13 came stock with ABS. It was always an option.

SMC, I trust who I hear about HICAS. The only people who I've heard like it are amateur autcrossers. (who have never driven a 240 without HICAS) If it was so great, one would think they would've included it in the S14.