Open Diff

[Murray_Calavera]

When drifting a car with an open diff is it highly likely that the driver will spin out?
My car has an open diff and I have never spun out (not that I have been getting Serious angles).
I heard that with an open diff the driver is unable to control which wheels are spinning there fore there isnt control which leads to easy spinning without the ability to recover.

any coments? (besides buy a LSD...)

[SilverGhost]

i learned on an open diff 280zx, and it was suseptable to spin out, but thats the nature of z's, they are heavy oversteering cars like mr2's... but with an open diff, it wont make you spin out more, what it will do is limit your slide. once you start sliding, its hard to keep it going because one wheel isnt spinning, its just sorta dragging so that causes the car to straighten out. hope that helps

[180sxdorift2]

from my personal experience, i dont think having a open diff will cause u to spin out more. u just have to go a little bit faster and have quick steering work and throttle control to control the slide. when i started out, i would spin out if i didnt countersteer quick enough and countersteered too much. i know a guy that has open diff on his 240, and he can drift just like he had a lsd on it. hope that helped in some way.

[SilverGhost]

yeah, at our Drift Showoff here in CO the guy taht won the amatuer comp was in an open diff 240...it looked really good sideways, couldnt tell he had open diff, until he did a standing burnout....the wheel facing the croud was just sitting there while the this huge plume of smoke came up the side of the car...lol. just proof you dont need an LSD to drift well

[Pennyman]

That makes me feel better, hehe. All early Datsun Z's have open diffs and I'm in the process of looking for an LSD that will fit. I do think however that open drifting is the final frontier of drifting, because you have to visualize what the rear end is doing, not only in terms of angle, but how much you can modify throttle input before the inside rear hooks up and throws you the opposite direction.

[CrazyHawaiian]

Nah it wont cause you to spin out. It anything it will slide a little bit different on throttle (left vs right), and you wont get as much speed as the guys with the LSD's, but its still driftable. In fact a lot of local drifters here lay a lot of smoke with their stock open rearends in the skidpad.

[GRiDRaceTech]

The open diff can also make the act of catching the car a little harder; it'll tend to do a tank-slapper or fishtail.

[Pennyman]

I do think drifting without an LSD is more unpredictable, but it does take more skill I'm pretty sure. The methods of initiating the drift are significantly different because you can't jam on the throttle and expect the car to stay sideways as long. It takes more feint technique because you have to overload the outer-rear tire for as long as posible because that one won't be getting as much as the inner-rear when you get o the gas.

[malcolm]

yeah, the handling has to be perfect when you don't have an LSD. You want to have good balance so you can feint with ease, but not have the body roll enough that the inside rear tire has a lot less traction than the outside rear tire (and hence have it send all the drive to the inside rear tire).

Couple that with a MR layout, and you've got one heck of a difficult car to drift.... I love drifting my open diff MR2!

[BenR]

Originally posted by SilverGhost
yeah, at our Drift Showoff here in CO the guy taht won the amatuer comp was in an open diff 240...it looked really good sideways, couldnt tell he had open diff, until he did a standing burnout....the wheel facing the croud was just sitting there while the this huge plume of smoke came up the side of the car...lol. just proof you dont need an LSD to drift well

Uh, no. Scott has a WELDED locked diff. I have a weak viscous in the miata.

[_PG_]

If you want to drift get an LSD. Everyone who says you don't need one is rationalizing why they suck at life. Saying its harder to drift..... yes it is. Does it take more skill? No, because the same things cannot be performed in an open diff car. You cannot cary long drifts, start super early, drift at a high speed and carry it, etc etc... Sure, SLIDING the car is harder, but that isnt drifting. With enough practice, anyone cna learn how to keep a car sliding. What takes skill, and to me, considered drifting is the driver's intuition and attitude about where to initiate, how much angle to hold, where to brake, ebrake, gas, clutch kick, downshift etc. All those decisions, combined with the driver's ability and control over his car in a limited amount of space AKA being a MANIAC and getting close to walls, clipping apexes, etc. all factors in to being a good drifter. Sicne you can't do half the things im talkign about with open diif due to mechanical and physical laws, how can you be a "better drifter" than someone who has the proper machinery? For instance, drifting a open diff to LSD takes relearning how to drift. It is such a drastic change. The car behaves so differently its not even like drifting in the open diff.

[BenR]

Originally posted by _PG_
If you want to drift get an LSD. Everyone who says you don't need one is rationalizing why they suck at life.

Excellent ad hominine attack.

Saying its harder to drift..... yes it is. Does it take more skill? No...

Non sequester. Something that is harder does not take more skill? excellent logic there.

No, because the same things cannot be performed in an open diff car. You cannot cary long drifts, start super early, drift at a high speed and carry it, etc etc...

I can. Actually depending on the setup and the what kind of lsd it is, you could actually introduce understeer on turn-in to the cars handling.

Sure, SLIDING the car is harder, but that isnt drifting. With enough practice, anyone cna learn how to keep a car sliding. What takes skill, and to me, considered drifting is the driver's intuition and attitude about where to initiate, how much angle to hold, where to brake, ebrake, gas, clutch kick, downshift etc. All those decisions, combined with the driver's ability and control over his car in a limited amount of space AKA being a MANIAC and getting close to walls, clipping apexes, etc. all factors in to being a good drifter.

Ok so in your view sliding a car is not drifting, but clipping apexes, getting close to walls, knowing where to brake, ebrake, gas, clutch kick, downshift, etc. is drifting?

Sicne you can't do half the things im talkign about with open diif due to mechanical and physical laws, how can you be a "better drifter" than someone who has the proper machinery?

There you go using that "you" word again. I can. Tell me what a lsd has to do with clipping apexes, getting close to walls, knowing where to brake, ebrake, gas, clutch kick, downshift, etc?

In my mind someone that can do the more with less usually has more skill. Where is the flaw in that logic?

For instance, drifting a open diff to LSD takes relearning how to drift. It is such a drastic change. The car behaves so differently its not even like drifting in the open diff.

I think you give too much importance to what an LSD does. It's not like the differenece of a s13 and a cadillac.

[Cone]

I first started drifting on an open diff and now have an LSD. It's way easier!! If you sway the car, it's hard to predict what the car's going to do, and it's probably going to spin out. Going to LSD from open is pretty rad cause you already know how your car behaves, and it's so much easier, now I can drift a lot better.

[Slonie]

Originally posted by BenR
Excellent ad hominine attack.

Non sequester.

There you go using that "you" word again.

I think you give too much importance to what an LSD does.

Okay, please stop. Seriously.

[ohtagerbilhero]

bruce lee could take out an entire pack of ninjas with his legs bound together and one hand tied to his toes. ....but do you think he learned to fight that way? as a six year old kid he went to kung fu class bound up like a crying japanese girl in a bondage film?
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you know what's great? linking corners together...connecting drifts... sliding through an entire course. that's fun.

you know what's hard? drifting through a corner when only your inside wheel is spinning.

with an open diff, you can make sure your outside wheel is spinning, but it's REALLY hard to switch the power to the other wheel without getting rear traction again. i dunno how you'd do it. maybe if you were a diff-whisperer or something. you have mystical kung fu powers? please share them with me. i will drink them in a juice.

so then... linking drifts is really difficult with an open diff, yes?

if you can do it and keep up with a guy who has LSD....you have ultimate skill!

...but why would you hold yourself back like that when an LSD is 300-600 bucks? maybe even cheaper if you grab yourself a junkyard diff...

if you really want to go far in the drift world, you should have an LSD. you wouldn't bring brass knuckles to a gun fight, wouldja?
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so, good for you if you can drift with an LSD. a drift is just a controlled four wheel slide. if all four wheels are sliding, you're drifting. you don't have to clip an apex, scrape a wall, seduce a race queen, or beat Benny Moto at checkers to drift. you just need to slide all four tires.... but there's a lot more you can do out there, and some of it...you can only do with an LSD.

get an LSD when you can afford it. i swear you'll love it.

just think of it this way.... if you get really good at drifting with an open diff... and you beat all the kids who have LSDs... and get sponsored by RS*R or Apex'i or HKS or something... they're gonna give you a car to drive. ...it's gonna have LSD. ...once you have throttle control, you're gonna look like a doofus out there....CAUSE YOU NEVER LEARNED IT.

why shield yourself from learning valuable skills? why are you hiding from LSD? EMBRACE THE DIFF! EMBRACE ITS LOCKING POWER!

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now, a bit about the writer:
my first AE86 came with an open diff... i learned to drift with it... i was sliding EVERYWHERE with that thing... mostly left turns, cause power almost automatically went to the right wheel (i didn't know how diffs worked at the time, so i didn't know this was why i was so comfortable with left turns).... so i went and did Drift Day 1 (Drift School) with my open diff. it was fun. i rocked that left turn like nobody's business. no clutch kick, no power over... my tires were bad, so i just used the brake. i learned braking drift!

when you're not doing fancy clutch kicks, the drift entry goes by the same principles...so you can still learn stuff.

i didn't waste my 60 bucks. i had a great time. ...but after i had that great time, i went out and spent 590 bucks on a Kaaz 2way. i've been using that thing for two and a half years now...it was the best 590 bucks i ever spent.

now, maybe i copped out... maybe i didn't spend enough time learning to drift with an open differential... yeah, maybe. but when i went to Drift Day 3 with my Kaaz...i had ten times as much fun as i'd ever had with my open diff.

so okay....you don't need an LSD.... but, for the sake of fun...get one. they're lovely.