WORLD DRIFT CHAMPIONSHIPS (WDC) vs. FORMULA DRIFT (FD)

[Moto-P]

Hi guys... It's Moto.

I wasn't at the media Day for WDC today...though I was supposed to be in one way or another... guilt by association I guess.

I regretted not going in terms of what I missed out on as far as a chance to talk to them about my feelings (which I posted in another thread here).

Bottm line is I guess, that I am finally caught up and politics has finally sunk to an all time low to even make my appearances probalematic for some events. Sort of unfortunate but at the same time, I am carrying out a responsibility put forth by my advisors and interests of others who we associate, namely the drivers, the fans and supporters.

Anyway, good thread and I hope everyone in the industry can make sense of all this and not waste a great resource like Primedia (in terms of funding towards the sport) and Vision (HIN) for thier tries at funding something healthy.

Thanks Alex, JR, and all those who shine the light on everyone's hopes for the future of drifting!

Moto

[AlexPfeiffer]

I am really depressed today. Mainly because of what is going on in the drifting community, how much work all of us have put into it, and to let political issues prevent many of us from being able to drive. The one thing that we all started this for and worked so hard to beable to do has now been used by others for their benifit.

[j.r.]

Interesting analogy Alex......

I wouldnt go to far as to say stopped us from having fun...but I would say stopped us from being a free spirit and rolling with whatever popped up just so we could get some seat time and compete.....


Dont you or anyone be deppressed or angry. EVERYTHING is going to be fine for drifting just as long as we stick together and continue to make the right decisions keeping the, fans,drivers, supporters and most of all the longevity of our sport as a top priority....

[Josh]

so much to say...

I feel compelled to chime in here, although my drifting will be limited to drift days. My apologies Alex, I know you asked for drivers only.

Someone alerted me to this post, I admit I have been far too busy trying to plan programming around FD to stay up with these boards lately. I usually lurk here often, because I want to know what you all have to say. I've only posted here once because I consider myself here for education and not really qualified to render many opinions in the midst of the experts here. But, after 8 pages of posts in this thread I have something to say.

I did the TV deal with FD for a lot of reasons. Because I believe in Slipstream, I believe in FD, I believe in drifting in a BIG way, I believe in the drivers, I believe in the fans and most importantly, I believe that drifting above any other emerging sport has the ability to elevate itself to the same level as NASCAR. I have become friends with many of the drivers personally, and I have yet to meet a single driver in the FD series or a DriftDay event that was not just a really great person.

Alex, you are dead on the money: need big corporate dollars to get to the point where you aren't eating ramen to be able to drift. You are right that sponsors are confused by conflicting messages and you are right that the tactics employed currently to entice those sponsors will effect you in a negative way.

my 1 88 u, you are right, what is missing from current coverage on drifting is any sense of the personality and lifestyle of the drivers involved. You also mentioned that D1 makes their money from Option. D1 was set-up to create content for Option, and Option create story lines around the drivers highlighting personality. While this is not always real (See NOB's recent interview I believe in Super Street where he states the "character" he plays in option is made up for the videos), it works...Option sells and the D1 drivers are stars with sponsorships to show for it.

ModifiedRob, I'm a fan, I’m a subscriber of modified, and I’m a friend. I agree with you that mags have a 100% penetration within their subscribers: people want the book so they buy it. I would also point out that people want to watch TV, and seek it out. It's the fringe that stumbles upon programming; the core audience has their Tivo set a week ahead. As for size, Spike is bigger. They have 80M+ homes, G4 has 50M+ homes. (Nielsen TV ratings) That's a far cry from 10x the size. Spike also have a majority of women viewers thanks to CSI (their top rated show). G4 has a much higher number of target demo males to promote the show to. Again, this is based of Nielsen data, which is publicly available. As I told you at your party for SEMA, I remain eager to work with you to co-editorialize the 2005 FD season. I'm positive that I can change your mind about the power of TV. Please feel free to give me a call.

It's been brought up MANY times in this thread: what is WDC / FD doing for the drivers? I can't speak to WDC on this matter. I also can't really speak for FD other than to say that from what I have seen they really care about the sport and about the community (the drivers and the fans). What I can speak to is what G4 seeks to do with FD events and drivers this year. We seek to do all of the following (pending FD's approval) this year:

* Cover each of the FD points events as full length specials shortly after the live event
* cover each of the FD demos including (and we are SO EXCITED) the CHAMP CAR demo in Long Beach
* create stand alone programming around the sport of drifting: it's birth in Japan, individualized specials on the drivers, their stories, their cars, their styles etc...
* create and release DVDs based on the FD points series including extra behind the scenes content not available on TV
* Co-produce content with 3rd parties endemic to "tuner motorsports" utilizing FD drivers to help establish those drivers as motorsports and drifting experts to the larger "tuner" audience
* co-editorialize with other media outlets interested in covering FD including Comcast SportsNet, the International Channel (which is almost all eastern culture programming) and others.
* make available to other media partners exclusive content to help promote their editorial efforts and drive ATTENDANCE at the events
* Aid in local event marketing of FD events to drive local attendance and ultimately tune in to the events on TV
* urge television advertisers to also sponsor local events and teams, to help bring larger $ sponsorships to the drivers who need them and act as a general evangelist for the sport of drifting to all of our national advertisers (which include soft drink makers, clothing manufactures, fast food chains, Car Manufacturers, Movie Studios, Game Publishers, Candy Companies, etc...)

Of course I’m vague on purpose. Until certain deals are finalized it is not my place to share those details, and we will only proceed with those things that our partners at Formula Drift approve of. I think you can see that there is far more exposure for sponsors and drivers when you are dealing with a partnership and not a time buy on TV. I also think you will find with time that the people we are working with to broaden this exposure beyond our own air are among the highest respected in the whole industry! I'm personally committed to making drifting a viable, mass-market sport and I believe with Modified's, G4's, and other's help FD can achieve that in a relatively short period of time. I've written letters of recommendation for several drivers now for sponsors, visas and jobs.

And back to your question Alex, and to all of you drivers out there: We want to make our TV coverage about YOU. The opportunity is there. It's up to you, your management and your sponsors to pitch yourselves to TV. I've talked to many of you already about TV opportunities. If I haven’t gotten to you yet or you just have an idea: CALL ME! I want to tell the best story possible, and I don’t know what those are if you don't let me know.

So you asked which was better: I think that’s up to you the drivers. But in terms of which is doing what for you, that is what FD and I are trying to do for you. I think it goes far beyond purse sizes.

Sorry about the book-ish post, I had lots to say.

Josh
jkrane@g4tv.com

P.S. Many of the programming ideas and intiatives listed here have never been discussed in a public forum. In that respect this is a drifting.com exclusive

[Peter]

Peter Stark here - a few of y'all know me, and based upon lots of what I've read here, discussed with many of you guys, and also see as very real issues our sport, I'm gonna follow Josh's above-posted lead and momentarily come out of my shell (read: alternate names with which I post and/or lurk), air a few thoughts and likely get a bit preachy.

Josh, Rob and Alex: spot on analysis and insight on the situation(s) at hand. You too, Craig.

Josh: First off, thanks to you, G4 and everybody at Comcast for having the foresight and, well, ball$ to integrate with and help expose drifting and Formula D. My day (and night) job involves marketing, communications and event promotion work, primarily in "mainstream" motorsports - the Formula D alliance with Champ Car and events such as having drifting now a part of the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach are something Jim, Ryan, my partner Tracy and I at MediaWide and the daring new regime at Champ Car have worked very hard on for over a year now (and thank god that after all the madness it took to put everything together, we're getting good response on the marriage and the one event that we've already announced).

I say this not to blow myself, but to hopefully make clear that drifting and, yes, primarily Formula D, are in a big way on the radar off the players in the big leagues...they're fascinated by and love our sport, our personalities, our outlets such as Modified and now G4, us and our immense spending powers and passions. This is good.

Drifting, regardless of its roots (which, on another note, should obviously never be ignored), has experienced a rapid growth of late - growth that, if we all continue to do our jobs and keep our wits about us, should only continue for years to come - and with growth comes change and it's a very real fact that change naturally creates controversy.

Those who rebel against the influx of large sponsorships, factory participation and corporate involvement at the top level of the sport should never bash the unprecendented inroads drifting has paved for the entire industry, but instead keep their/your participation at any of the many club-ish levels of the sport that now thankfully allow all of us to abuse whatever we drive, whatever its level of preparation or lack thereof. Everybody else should, in my humble opinion, be nothing short of ecstatic that we've all gotten in at the ground floor of a sport with such potential and opportunity.

And that brings me to the next (and hopefully final) chapter in this already overly long email - a great majority of the growth, exposure and popularity of drifting in America can be directly credited to Slipstream and Formula D. That's in no way intended to demean the roles, value and contributions of guys like Alex, Gush, the criminals at Drift Alliance and all the great sponsors like Jerry at Pac Rim, Donny at Versus, Nick and Falken, Circuit City, EA and everybody else that supported it when truly at the gamble stage of the game...it's just that without Slipstream and Formula D there would never have existed a forum/venue for the many other heroes to shine.

That said, I've long made clear to those who know me both in the Drifting community as well as in the markets that I do the bulk of my work (hell, you wanna see what happens when too many egos butt heads and too much misdireced money enters into the equation then look no further to the tattered world of American open wheel racing in which I'm involved!) that two major series in ANY form of motorsport is at least one too many.

As much fun as it is to take the saccarine "why can't we all just get along" position, that's a position that never accomplishes anything or is directly affected by the outcome of any gaven situation - in this case the mounting threat of drifting officially having too many roosters in the proverbial henhouse.

The arrival of WDC and the Hard Drive Live events to which its hosted is very intriguing (and, as Terence and Russel at WDC know alongside my friends at Slipstream, something I would've considered when orchestrating the Champ Car deal IF they had a track record of any sort...). The arrival of WDC however is far more disconcerting in that when all is said and done, the situation now only holds two real outcomes and the first is unavoidable, the second hopefully something we can all force NOT to happen: 1) one of the two "big" series - assuming of course that WDC lives up to is claims - will fail. 2) drifting will become mired in an open wheel and/or import drag racing-like s#itstorm of in-fighting that will first alienate the core and then dilute the entire sport.

To finally wrap this up, I guess what I'm saying is that I truly feel this season to be critical to the future of drifting, and as concerned/scared/pissed as I am that things have become as they have, we all knew this had to happen and I'm encouraged to read the opinions posted here and see that guys like Rob, Josh, Alex and many of you are so dedicated not just to drifting but to the Formula D bus upon which we all rode/ride.

I see drifting as the first product our beloved sport compact/tuner scene has birthed that has the recognized and invested-in potential to serve as a bridge between the underground and the mainstream - hence the alligning of Formula D with my clients at Champ Car. And in the motorsports biz, underground eats ramen, mainstream flies on private jets.

On our way there, let's all try to be smarter than those in the places we're headed...this sport is new enough that it's inexcusable we follow in the paths of older motorsports that have injured themselves by division, dig?

OK, I'm spent...sorry for the book report. I'll be here all week, try the veil...

-Peter


Peter Stark
MediaWide Marketing LLC
stark@mediawidemarketing.com

[Modified-Rob]

While this is my first post here, i'm far from a n00b to this board or "the scene". In fact, you can see my Formula D coverage in the March issue of HCI magazine.

Rob - good to have you here. However, there are a few things I'd like to clear up...

1 - Vision Event was purchased last year by a large investment firm based out of Boston, MA, and is now known as Action Media. They still own and operate Hot Import Nights. But there is now an outside investor, not just Rich Goodwin. Rich made an announcement about this change at Hot Import Nights Chicago last year.

2 - The Import Auto Group IS in fact the ones throwing the HDL / WDC series. This group is the one that has planned events such as Trek, Ultimate Street Car Challenge, and Import Tuner Model Search. Super Street is part of the LA branch of Primedia, which includes Euro Tuner, and they have their own events which they are planning (Super Street Tour, the Super Street Studio at HIN last year, etc). While TunerBash and other events are a co-production, both the McMullen Argus side and the LA branch have their own events. While Super Street may not have illicitly signed on to the HDL / WDC events (just yet), they are still being planned by the marketing heads at Import Tuner / Sport Compact Car / Turbo / etc in the Import Auto Group.

3 - RUMOR - At one point last year, Primedia made an offer to purchase Vision.

4 - The same investment firm which owns vision also now owns Hachette Filipacchi Media. This is the company that produces both "Road and Track" & "Car and Driver" magazine. Whether the company will use these magazines in direct cooperation with the HIN show series has yet to be announced (to my knowledge).

I will leave my other comments about what is good or bad for drifting, or the possible motivations of various companies, etc until later. For now, I'm heading out the door to see what the WDC Media Day has to offer...

Slapshot... i'm sure you can understand that i may be a little more up to speed on a few of these items than yourself. I just want to ensure the integrity of my post is maintained...

1) WDC is **NOT** an import title group initiative. It is an initiative of Motor Trend, and mostly aimed towards the Hard Drive side of things with "test drives" of manufacturer cars.

2) Super Street and other import titles will reluctantly cover the HD / WDC events. I'm sorry if i made it sound like they won't... they will as Primedia Corporate has dictated they have to. But this is not their initiative... their intiative is the Tuner Bash and After Dark Events...

3) Hachette is not owned by HIN, although they may share similar investors as HIN, they are not tied together that closely i can assure you. HIN and Hachette have struck a media swap. if my memory serves me, Hachette is still owned by a French company.

4) Rich Goodwin (a great guy) sold his share of HIN when they found outside investors. However, a number of other guys are still at HIN... HIN from the beginning had a number of shareholders not just Rich. To my knowledge, Rich is the only one that completely sold his shares and left the company.

Again, this is the business i am in - magazines - so i have a very in-depth knowledge on this topic. I would love to share with you everything i know, but i cannot for legal reasons, and also because it may compromise my business in terms of other competitors finding certain things out they may not have previously known.

[Slapshotnerd]

Rob - we're both in the same business

i'm good buddies with your editor Jason Siu, I am going to get in touch with you through him to discuss a few things...

[DriftGirl]

If WDC is "invite only", wheres the problem for us common folk? All I see is more shows for fans to attend....
But all you guys bringing the fans (who jus want to watch Drifting) into your Business drama is weak and simply unprofessional.

[MonkeySlide]

If WDC is "invite only", wheres the problem for us common folk? All I see is more shows for fans to attend....
But all you guys bringing the fans (who jus want to watch Drifting) into your Business drama is weak and simply unprofessional.

I think you're failing to see how a possible driver split between the two series can effect the fans..

If certain drivers commit to only one series and not the other that means the fans wont get to see everyone they want to see when they attend either of these events.

Imagine if Chris Forsberg commited to only WDC and dropped out of Formula D and in that particular year there were no WDC events near your location?

Dont you think that would suck just a little bit?

It is these kinds of situations that can determine the future of this sport and its directions and that is a direct concern of us..the fans. If this "business drama" as you call it will somehow effect the kind of show that we as fans use our hard earned money to attend then don't you think its appropriate for these organizations to consider our interests when discussing these issues?

Anyway I know non-professional drifters aren't supposed to post in this thread but I felt compeled after reading DriftGirl's post. So I will try to refrain from posting again.

However this topic seems to be building more and more controversy by the day and Im very very interested in seeing how this will all play out.

[DriftGirl]

As a business owner: I will say that the actions displayed here are unethical and unprofessional....period. I'm sure it's nice for the common persons to hear a bit of what goes on behind the scene, but It leads to innuendos & speculation when they end a statement with "I cant tell you more because of legal reasons". Uh, Either 'Spill it' or dont say anything at all. I'm sure WDC would have a whole different view/comments on things.

The WDC event is 'Invite only' right? which excludes 99.5% of the persons reading DRIFTING.COM. That same 99.5% will attend any event in their area

It seems to me that people are trying to 'hold court in the streets' without both sides present. That really isnt fair, nor is it in the best intrest of 'the people'.

As a fan of the sport: There are no Formula D / WDC events in my area, so I'll attend any one of them that has an event close enough for me to attend.
Im a fan of the Drifting, Not a fan of the people who throw the events. I'd attend an event in sombodys back yard, if It were the only show in town. Just like the fans will go to any show they can

[cinderblok]

Like Chris Forsburg said in an earlier post, Drift alliance is contracted to FD -so they too will appose WDC. It is in their interest for FD to succeed.

In my eyes, I see a mulitude of oportunities for drivers that they are not seeing from being closed minded. And that includes both series. If all of you have problems with either series and how they do things, why not contact them and figure it out?

I believe the fans will go watch drifting no matter what series and if they are in the same town then the fans will choose which to go to. People post on here as if drifting has been established for 5 years. It has only been one year and only 4 events ( in a "professional" series). As another business owner on this post, It will take a few years for a business to establish solid ground no matter what business you are in.

in my opinion, I would(as a driver) evolve with what ever change is happening to lead me to what my goal is. The change is going to happen no matter what happens, it is just a matter of time. If it was not WDC, it would be someone else.

In my opinin (as a fan) I would love to see more drifting. No matter where it comes from. For the record, I am not a driver- only a fan

[Hubert Young]

Like Chris Forsburg said in an earlier post, Drift alliance is contracted to FD -so they too will appose WDC. It is in their interest for FD to succeed.

In my eyes, I see a mulitude of oportunities for drivers that they are not seeing from being closed minded. And that includes both series. If all of you have problems with either series and how they do things, why not contact them and figure it out?

I believe the fans will go watch drifting no matter what series and if they are in the same town then the fans will choose which to go to. People post on here as if drifting has been established for 5 years. It has only been one year and only 4 events ( in a "professional" series). As another business owner on this post, It will take a few years for a business to establish solid ground no matter what business you are in.

in my opinion, I would(as a driver) evolve with what ever change is happening to lead me to what my goal is. The change is going to happen no matter what happens, it is just a matter of time. If it was not WDC, it would be someone else.

In my opinin (as a fan) I would love to see more drifting. No matter where it comes from. For the record, I am not a driver- only a fan

Buddy, you are totally missing the point of this discussion... please read carefully before you make such accusations and opinions... OUR INTENTION TO RUN AND SUPPORT FD AS OUR PRIORITY IS TO TRY TO PREVENT THE DRIFTING COMMUNITY FROM SPLITTING IN HALF, DILUTING FANS, DRIVERS, SPONSORS, MONEY, MEDIA COVERAGE... (all these points are written throughout the thread).

We drivers DO NOT have contracts with neither FD or WDC. Most of us just simply have contracts with teams which is necessary to ensure the commitment from both sides for the season.

[j.r.]

Like Chris Forsburg said in an earlier post, Drift alliance is contracted to FD -so they too will appose WDC. It is in their interest for FD to succeed.

In my eyes, I see a mulitude of oportunities for drivers that they are not seeing from being closed minded. And that includes both series. If all of you have problems with either series and how they do things, why not contact them and figure it out?

I believe the fans will go watch drifting no matter what series and if they are in the same town then the fans will choose which to go to. People post on here as if drifting has been established for 5 years. It has only been one year and only 4 events ( in a "professional" series). As another business owner on this post, It will take a few years for a business to establish solid ground no matter what business you are in.

in my opinion, I would(as a driver) evolve with what ever change is happening to lead me to what my goal is. The change is going to happen no matter what happens, it is just a matter of time. If it was not WDC, it would be someone else.

In my opinin (as a fan) I would love to see more drifting. No matter where it comes from. For the record, I am not a driver- only a fan

Just to clear up what Chris said we are NOT contracted exclusivly to any one series. We can run in all of the series if we wanted however we have chosen the series in which we we feel have the most to offer drivers,all drift fans , as well as the longevity of our sport. We are in no way biased based on money (ask tony or chris they eat ramen noodles daily) or politics we solely base our decisions from our heart and the consideration for this amazing sport at all levels....

Thanks for your opinion.

JR

[swifty949]

a lot of teams are taking a wait and see approach to WDC. All the teams are familar with how Formula D operates "behind" the scenes, and are thus ready to stand behind what they know already. SlipStream has gone above and beyond to help teams make it to events (logistics, and sponsorship). For that i and other teams are grateful for, and thus we do our best to put our best efforts into those that helped get us there.

IMO though, this sport is way too young in the US to have two seperate series, this overexposure is not good for this young (in the us) pro sport.

[craiglieberman]

As I touched upon earlier, there's still one hidden concern:
There isn't enough sponsorship money (in the endemic sponsor world) to fund two series...AND have enough money to fund drivers...AND have enough money to buy ads in magazines.

I work for a company that, like other companies, has seen a cooling off in the tuner market as a whole. I hear the same thing from many, many companies. We have cut our tuner budget in half. Many other companies have likewise pulled back. As such, we've stopped going to events, we've reduced the number of ads we buy and we've abandoned import drag racing. (The split in the sanctioning bodies influences their print media coverage to a point where it is not economically viable to fund it all...drivers, the event promoters and the magazines all want money to reach the same group of people. Its' just too expensive.)

Invariably, that leaves me (as a fan) concerned about what will happen to drifting. It leaves me (as a marketing director) running out of money long before I can sponsor everything and everyone I want to....and still buy ads in magazines.

The tuner market has admittedly received an infusion of interest from companies, but any programs or drivers funded have utilized funds pilfered from other areas of tuner marketing initiatives.

That leaves non endemic sponsors...companies like Pepsi, EAGames, etc. Is drifting at long last the breakout event that will go mainstream and finally bring in the huge corporate sponsorships?

The media seems to think so, and each is leveraging their respective empires in an effort to rule the drifting world. In the end, as magnanimous as drivers wish to be, the dollar reigns supreme and I could not blame a single one of them for going where the money is. I know many have a higher code than that though, so it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out...and when.

Just another opinion.