WORLD DRIFT CHAMPIONSHIPS (WDC) vs. FORMULA DRIFT (FD)

[cinderblok]

The fact is with this other series it gives more drivers (amatuer and pro) a chance to get their names out. The WDC has more events all over the country. And with most pro drivers contracted to run Formula D and D1, most of us will not be able to attend these events even if we wanted to.

J.R.-The reason for my thinking was from this quote. Thanks for clearing it up. Falken is contracted to FD and so is Drift Alliance. That is why I was thinking that.

Hubert Young- I am not missing any point. I understand. But, there is no reason to be upset. It is just the way I feel. We post here so that we can all learn and grow together. In this delicate matter, FD and Modified posts are being taken Biased by me. It is in their best interest to "convince" the public so that they do not lose momentum in their business ventures.
Thanks Hubert for your reply.

[Topics II]

Just to clear up what Chris said we are NOT contracted exclusivly to any one series. We can run in all of the series if we wanted however we have chosen the series in which we we feel have the most to offer drivers,all drift fans , as well as the longevity of our sport. We are in no way biased based on money (ask tony or chris they eat ramen noodles daily) or politics we solely base our decisions from our heart and the consideration for this amazing sport at all levels....

Thanks for your opinion.

JR

What i was saying by that last comment was. That we have a contract with our sponsors that we will be at all Formula D and all D1 USA events. After that, we can run anywhere, anytime. Sorry for the confusion.

[j.r.]

I would also like to throw out another Idea that has been mentioned how Hard Drive and WDC could work with everyone and make this fully positive.

The drifting portion of the hard drive event could be aimed at the up and coming drivers. What a better way to get them seen and even maybe a small amount of help/support then to make them a part of a huge carnival of automotive festivities which is hard drive? If they went that route Formula D drivers could go there do demos, maybe judge competitions, maybe even do a few clinics and/or have a seperate area for drift ride alongs. Those are things that would help our sport and raise more interest in our professional series as well as help up and coming Drivers and all in all help the sport in general.

any opinions on that idea?

[Ris4drift]

Jr, as much as I personally would like to see both these sereis work out for the best of Drifting, it is extremely obvious both are trying to fight for top spot, and run one another into the ground. Which is truley going to lead to nothign but bad things for drifting this year, and probably a lot of people getting pissed off causing a lot of internal drama in the drifting community.

[Slapshotnerd]

I would also like to throw out another Idea that has been mentioned how Hard Drive and WDC could work with everyone and make this fully positive.

The drifting portion of the hard drive event could be aimed at the up and coming drivers. What a better way to get them seen and even maybe a small amount of help/support then to make them a part of a huge carnival of automotive festivities which is hard drive? If they went that route Formula D drivers could go there do demos, maybe judge competitions, maybe even do a few clinics and/or have a seperate area for drift ride alongs. Those are things that would help our sport and raise more interest in our professional series as well as help up and coming Drivers and all in all help the sport in general.

any opinions on that idea?

Companies like Drift Day, Drift Showoff, and others don't mind being a "breeding ground" for up and coming drivers. They support things like clinics, "pros" to be there to help others learn, etc... they understand their role in the bigger picture, and accept it with open arms.

It's all about how you market yourself.

Primedia is marketing itself as having the top drivers competing for a "world championship". They are selling their series as this to the advertisers and sponsors. If Primedia was willing to accept the "second fiddle" role, then there wouldn't be the problem that currently exists.

[DriftGirl]

Companies like Drift Day, Drift Showoff, and others don't mind being a "breeding ground" for up and coming drivers. They support things like clinics, "pros" to be there to help others learn, etc... they understand their role in the bigger picture, and accept it with open arms.

It's all about how you market yourself.

Primedia is marketing itself as having the top drivers competing for a "world championship". They are selling their series as this to the advertisers and sponsors. If Primedia was willing to accept the "second fiddle" role, then there wouldn't be the problem that currently exists.

Understandable........
FD has done a lot for the sport. Primedia has done a lot for the sport as well.

But you couldnt possibly think that Primedia would come in WANTING to be #2?? The above mentioned Drifting series know they dont have the money or 'Pull' to challenge FD for teh top spot.

I'm sure the folks at Primedia think they have whats needed to be the series they set out to become....

Oh, Nobody is in business to be #2

[Octagon]

Honestly, debating which series is going to be the premier series is a bit knackered when you consider that drifting - as a professional American based sport - has only existed in the United States for a little over a year.

I've already addressed some basic problems that BOTH FD and WDC need to address if drifting is to survive in the United States regardless of whether both series or either series survives.

In fact, "the split" (and speaking as someone who was on the inside during the IRL/CART split in 1995, this is NOTHING compared to the destructive power of that) is completely irrelevant to drifting's root problems which need to be addressed before the import fans shift away from drifting and onto whatever new fad shows up.

I'll bring up a few other points when it comes to drifting's problems besides the basic marketing crimes (which I honestly believe Primedia will commit more egregiously, rather than avoid).

For instance, has anyone taken a look at a map when considering the Formula Drift and WDC schedules? True, as I believe Jim Hall said, "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one", but for all but the largest teams it's almost unreasonable to expect a team to run at Irwindale in California, tear down and repair their car, and then haul it out to Braselton, Georgia for the next event.

WDC wants to address this with what we in the short track community call "tow money". In the short track world, when a promoter wants a big field of cars for a non-sanction race he'll offer a good size purse, but he'll also pay out "tow money" to anyone who makes the feature event. For sprint car races, a good example of this is usually $10,000 to win, $500 to start.

And the promise of this, which can cover gas for a hauler, and maybe tires and fuel for the car, will draw 50+ sprint cars from several states all in fair driving distance (for example, if it's an Ohioan race, it'll draw cars from as far north as Ontario, Canada, as far east as New Jersey, as far west as Iowa, and, well, Ohio is really as far south as Sprint car racing gets since everything below the Mason-Dixon line is mostly stock car country).

"Tow money" is not a bad idea. It just has to be a flat fee open to whoever shows up and can qualify for the show. You don't make the show, you don't get the money, simple as that.

Drifting also has a problem in its manufacturer base. D1 does well in having mostly tuner shops field and sponsor the cars (HKS, Top Secret, Blitz, and so on) but this doesn't translate well to a U.S. business model. There's a sort of backlash against any sort of "development" in the cars. It's actually a bit of a taboo to start thinking beyond the stock layout or to think of car specific parts (look at the guff RMR takes because of some of their modified components on the GTO's suspension).

What's not realized is that the more stress and wear-and-tear a sport places on components, the more desirable it is for component companies to get their components winning in that sport. Companies like Edelbrock, Holley, and Lunati MADE their image with high-profile drag racing product placement. Same with Koni, Brembo, and Castrol in road racing.

Drifting is a sport that emphasizes handling, durability, and power. Why don't our teams more aggressively court major manufacturers of suspension, transmission, and engine components? Where are the oil sponsors? Lucas Oils picks up the tab on CORR off road racing and ISMA Supermodified racing even though both series are nil for exposure, but they know the fanbases are intensely loyal.

In drifters, I see the same loyalty, but only for those that share their enthusiasm. Why not invite luminaries and bigwigs? We have a pro sport here folks. It's time to play with the big boys. Have a courtesy tent with a buffet spread and excellent seats for a few major sponsor interests. Get a major automotive sponsor to smear their logo across the series and foot some of the bills.

Drifting is expensive, so it's time to get the men with the money to come play. All it takes is to show that they're welcome.

[my 1 88 u]

FD, WDC, someone hire this man and pay him lots of money!

[DriftGirl]

Great post.

I have to disagree with one point tho: I think that NOW would be the time to establish yourself as the top US program, before the likes of Pepsi, Texaco and whoever else (who thinks it can be a profitable segment) hops in as a $ponsor.
The marketing was brilliant on WDCs part
That being said: I can see why FD and Associates have 'circled the wagons' to protect what they've built over the past year.

But I do think that the folks who have an agenda here need to state it, rather then trying to make their points thru innuendo and speculation.

[AlexPfeiffer]

Its the drivers and teams that have "circled the wagons" as you call it. Not to protect FD per say, but to protect our existance and the future of drifting here in the US.

[Formula D]

Octagon, you make some good points and understand quite a bit. Let me give you some feedback from Formula D's perspective


For instance, has anyone taken a look at a map when considering the Formula Drift and WDC schedules? True, as I believe Jim Hall said, "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one", but for all but the largest teams it's almost unreasonable to expect a team to run at Irwindale in California, tear down and repair their car, and then haul it out to Braselton, Georgia for the next event.

This is true, motorosports can make a big fortune small. Notice when FD announced the schedule in '04 we only released 4 events. This is because we knew this would be the maximum number of events MOST of the drvers could make without pushing them over the edge financially. Most of them I say. SOme don't hav ethe cash to do half. This was also a good starting point as far as invesment for sponsors. The more races, the more cost for everyone. We could do 10 events per year easy but that is not fair to drivers who dont have the cash and sponsor who have not yet allocated that type of budget. We want the best drivers to attend the events becasue we want the best championship, the best competition. Some people obviously do not understand this concept because your example is right on. Hence the reason we only jumped from 4 events to 6. The two additional are in major markets and two places that have asked for these types of events and the money out there now for MOST of the top drivers give them the ability to be at these events, but 10 more for heavens sake! We are not trying to bankrupt our drivers/teams and sponsor here!!

Drifting also has a problem in its manufacturer base. D1 does well in having mostly tuner shops field and sponsor the cars (HKS, Top Secret, Blitz, and so on) but this doesn't translate well to a U.S. business model. There's a sort of backlash against any sort of "development" in the cars. It's actually a bit of a taboo to start thinking beyond the stock layout or to think of car specific parts (look at the guff RMR takes because of some of their modified components on the GTO's suspension).

What's not realized is that the more stress and wear-and-tear a sport places on components, the more desirable it is for component companies to get their components winning in that sport. Companies like Edelbrock, Holley, and Lunati MADE their image with high-profile drag racing product placement. Same with Koni, Brembo, and Castrol in road racing.

Drifting is a sport that emphasizes handling, durability, and power. Why don't our teams more aggressively court major manufacturers of suspension, transmission, and engine components? Where are the oil sponsors? Lucas Oils picks up the tab on CORR off road racing and ISMA Supermodified racing even though both series are nil for exposure, but they know the fanbases are intensely loyal.

Those manufacturers you mentioned get their budgets from Japan. If HKS will not allocate budget for them to build a US drift car it does not mean that HKS-US does not want to, it just means that HKS' priority is to Taniguchi and the Japanese D1 series at the moment. Hometown love if you will. This may shift if manufacturers see greater return here than in Japan. These things have started to happen as personally this organization has been contacted numerously by many Japanese D1 drivers to find a way to compete or be involved in FD this year. Take a look at Ucchi Utsumi or Seigou Yamamoto. The media from our four events alone catapulted both drivers to some of the most popular here in the states and therefore other Japanese drivers want in on that. Currently FD rules do not allow Japanese D1 licensed drivers to compete in '05. HINT: Do not be surprised if you see a few top Japanese driver on the streets of Long Beach this April. HINT HINT!

FYI, drivers do aggressively approach suspension and engine component companies. Many of those companies are giving free product and contingency and are beginning to make drifting a priority. This is happening slowly, but it is happening. Still those companies do not have the ability to fork over boatloads of cash that is why the non-endemics and tire manufacturers play such an important role

Now on to that. The big sponsors of the world... The Mcdonalds, the Pepsi's the EA games, the Circuit City's...... Every single one of those companies has gotten a pitch from us. Some bite and some do not. EA and CC did, Pepsi didn't. Even though those companies bite doesn't not mean that there is a tremendous amount of cash to be given up. Oh and let me say one more thing regarding that. Everyone one of our sponsor pitches includes info on top FD teams and how to sponsor them... But back to what I was saying before: Just because a Pepsi or some big company comes in does not mean you are getting massive amounts of cash. Your sponsorship must provide value. Just like you would not pay 10 dollars for a number 2 at McDonalds, McDonalds is not gonig to pay you millions for an event that provides a return equal to half that. They definitely are not going to pay you what they did the year before if another series comes into the mix and causes the type of confusion that takes value away. That is why this is so dangerous to drifting. You say we just need to welcome these big non-endedmics. Let me say that at least from our end, if there is a way in to a company or there is a contact for the XBOX's, the Proctor and Gamble's, the Coke's or the Targets of the world we have found it and they have received a proposal. There are very few companies out there that we have not spoken with. Not only have we welcomed them they have been given the big pitch for the series and our commited drivers.

Let me say with regards to sponsorship that this company (and many marketing managers in this industry will vouch for this) provides our sponsorship for the best possible cost and the biggest return we can. When we signed G4, G4 gave us what our current sponsorship model will now be valued at based on a formula they provided about the coverage they would give and an average Nielsen rating. The value was much higher than what we were/are currently selling it for. We did not boost our sponsorship prices however. Why? Beacause we promised our sponsors a certain cost and we look at TV as added value at this point. If next year we can prove that the show did well and therefore everyone especially sponsors benefitted from it we probably will raise prices fairly to a justifiable cost. And those new funds will go right back into the series to boost higher payouts, better production, better entertainment and more media. This is how it is suppose to work. You have to crawl before you walk and walk before you run. Now I may be preaching to the choir but Drifting is not just like any other fad that has come about in my opinion. I see it as the only thing that has come around that has the ability to bridge that gap between this industry and mainstream motorsports. Whereas 700HP drag Civics were booed in front of mainstream motorsports fans, we do a demo infront of 7k rednecks at a Friday night Irwindale event or at Laguna Seca Champ Car race, you never have heard louder cheers of excitement. The signing of a demo at this years Long Beach Grand Prix is a more conclusive understanding of that.

Thanks for your comments you had some great things to say

[Slapshotnerd]

FD - great post. Very accurate.

Octagon - very good post, sounds like you definately know your stuff. however...

Drifting is a sport that emphasizes handling, durability, and power. Why don't our teams more aggressively court major manufacturers of suspension, transmission, and engine components? Where are the oil sponsors? Lucas Oils picks up the tab on CORR off road racing and ISMA Supermodified racing even though both series are nil for exposure, but they know the fanbases are intensely loyal.

In drifters, I see the same loyalty, but only for those that share their enthusiasm. Why not invite luminaries and bigwigs? We have a pro sport here folks. It's time to play with the big boys. Have a courtesy tent with a buffet spread and excellent seats for a few major sponsor interests. Get a major automotive sponsor to smear their logo across the series and foot some of the bills.

The one problem I see with this is the "loyalty" aspect of it. As was mentioned in an earlier post, the fan loyalty for Nascar is just one step short of amazing. When Pops, mom, and the kiddies all are sporting hats / shirts / etc of their favorite driver, and then supporting the products for that sponsor simply because they're associated with that driver, the sponsor get's their investment back.

If you ask the top 10 drifting teams what tools they use, chances are you'll get 10 different answers. If you ask 1000 fans what tools they buy, chances are you'll get 20 answers. Now expand that into brands of oil, ignition, etc... While I don't know this for a fact, I do know that the import community in general (from which the drifting community is a subset) tend to be on much more of a budget than the american muscle / hot rod community. The tools that they use probably belong to a dad / uncle / friend, the oil they use is whatever is on sale / at costco, and they don't replace many parts unless they either break, or are absolutely necessary (suspension, tires, etc). Because there is less expendable income overall, and less money flowing into the manufacturers of these parts as a result of that, there is less of a return on that investment in a sponsorship and less of an enticement to enter the sport.

How do you change that? I wish i had the answer. But I think the change comes from a much bigger problem, in which Ebay is the 'best' source to get parts for many imports, cutting profits of all manufacturers involved in the sport.

[cinderblok]

I am all for everyone to voice opinions, with that said, I am amazed that posts like Formula D and Modified mag representatives get on here to voice their opinion. I think both Formula D and Modified are doing their thing great, but I hate that they come on here to talk about FD and trash WDC because it makes them look so unprofessional. Modified has contracts with FD-so of course they are gonna praise FD. It makes me lose more respect for FD and Modified as a fan of the sport. But, like I myself said they have every right to post. FD and Modified should (in My opinion) listen and learn from all these posts and not try to convince anyone. sometimes there is a time and a place for communicating to people properly.

J.R. I don't think WDC is in it for seconds.(not with the money they are putting into WDC) Like many of you drivers, I too was at the driver's meetings and they are not interested in second best. I also went to Formula D's driver meetings and, they too, are not interested in second best. I think it would be great to see different drivers from different countries at WDC and it would also be great to see our Formula D drivers at Formula D. I want to say that I don't think WDC was trying to run Formula D into the ground. At the drivers meetings they incouraged the drivers to go FD if the points were better on the conflicting days. I cannot say much about Formula D since they post here to you guys and because they are the ones that change 2 conflicting dates to 4 conflicting dates. Formula D has a good thing going. If they believe in it, they should stick with their plan and let the fans decide and not try to convince anyone. If they need to convince everyone, then disguise it in advertisements-Not here.

[MonkeySlide]

I hate break the rules again but I just wanted to point something out incase everyone failed to notice..

Remember the "BS List" of "comfirmed drifters" that WDC had on their site? Its gone now.

Have they been watching whats been going on in this thread? or did one of the U.S. Pros approach them about this?

[DriftGirl]

Good catch MonkeySlide .....

none of those listed were confirmed?