“The Hard Call” by Formula D Judge Ken Takahashi

[Nismo]

Yeah thats a great point!!! When someone gets past then he/she should lose that run. But wait a minute, in Sonoma didn't Rhys Millen pass Alex Phiffer in one run and the win was still given the win. How about that, the judgement call was made because both tires where off the ground but if you see the replay you clearly see that only one tire was off the ground. Then when it was asked to see the replay the judges ignored it right!!! Why wasn't the run given to Rhys or at least let them run another time instead of giving it to Alex. You could even tell that Alex Phiffer himself thought that Rhys should have won that tandum. I think Formula D has great judges and are doing a hell of a job, but when it comes to close calls like that just look at a replay and dont go by what you think you saw. Thanks!!!

[D1 DRIFTER]

yes i agree. and i understand where rhys was coming from i mean hes the points leader at 400pts i think and the 2nd place is like 396 4 fuken points id be pist too that was a REALLY weak call on your guys part sad thing is G4 even disagreed with the judges and had it on tape to prove it stuff like that just aint cool

[hatebbobbarker]

were you guys there or are you just watching videos?
i was there and this is what i saw
rhys straitened the car out to pass alex, I was surprised the judges gave that to alex because it emant they made a good call. D1 or formula D thats not how your supposed to pass.
rhys has gotten knicked for that before if im not mistaken, he should know better.

[AlexPfeiffer]

Well said ^

Something you guys have to remember, passing should only be done when the front car makes a mistake. Just because someone runs a wider line doesnt mean your supposed to pass him on the entry. To me that is unsportsmanlike.

With all the high hp cars running in FD right now. All the tandom battles have turned into who can run the tightest line. That to me is weak. Lower hp cars need to run a wide line inorder to keep thier momentum and speed. This means thier tandom line is going to be similar to thier qualifying run.

You should change your line a bit when your in tandom, but not to the point that all your doing is running the tightest line possible. Yes, if your competitor messes up and goes wide at the apex of the corner, you have an opening to pass, but if your passing them because they took a wide (qualifying) line, you shouldnt pass them.

I feel the judges should deduct points for taking a weak line or passing before the main apex. This isnt racing sideways people. Its Drifting!!!

PS, glad to have you as a judge Ken!

[D1 DRIFTER]

... ok alex so do you agree on the call that was made... i mean not trying to argue but the lower hp cars seem to do fine with the lines they run they come in faster and still manage to stay right on the A$$ of a higher hp and when theres an opening to pass wouldnt you take it considering if you pass while drifting that would help with you points wise.. or am i mistaken? i just want to know if you agree with the judges

[jspecusa]

Welcome

Glad to have you as a FD judge Ken.
You are not only a great translator for the japanese judges, you are a true enthusiast.
As for the point of NO politic in FD, that's not true at all.
Any organization/event there are always politic involved, just matter of amount and what type.
It's mostly due to disagreement amount organizers/sponsors and what would benefit the "party" in this case FD the most.
This is not FD fault or anyone's it just the way of life.
Did you know putting your own car into a magazine has politic involve?(primedia vs others)
Did you know that certain sponsors will not work with certain other sponsors?
The list can go on and on, these are just things that are consider politic.
Sorry to jack your thread Ken, you are a good guy and I believe you would keep in honest and fair.
Thank you,

Sam
Jspec.com

[310Ojisan]

watch carefully....

G4 even disagreed with the judges and had it on tape to prove it stuff like that just aint cool

Sorry I can’t agree with you on that one. Look at the repay closely at the ending, at the time Rhys two right tires cross the line and were in the air which direction was his front tire facing. “straight” that means he corrected himself and grip driving not drifting. G4 made a bad call and their unprofessional criticism is hurting the sport. Leave the judging to the judges!

[Boostedrex]

Alex does make a very good point. FD seems to have an over abundance of really high hp cars. And with that kind of hp you can run a much tighter line while maintaining a good drift. So I do agree that it is unsportsman like to pass a lower hp car that has to take a wider line. Too bad that other people don't seem to agree. Thanks for your input Alex, it is greatly appreciated.

[CrazyHawaiian]

I agree its unsportsman like, but I dont blame it on the power level of the cars, I blame it on the drivers. Even the guy with the most HP out there can have enough respect for the other driver not to try cut off his line or re-grip/bobble and go for a pass. I call it "dirty drifting"

[Rob Fleming]

would be nice if the judges would deduct points from high hp cars that spin out, ride the ebrake around every turn, and go worlds slower than they should be going.

if the car is high hp, it should be going fast. if i can sit on the sidelines, see a guy grab the ebrake 4-5 times through an entry turn, and have the judges allow that person go onto the next round, i dont agree with that.

I think part of the reason that people try to pass so much is that its a clear victory, mainly because calls are not being made that should. if we knew we'd get judged on driving style and execution properly, then we'd run the line the way we see fit, instead of guarding the inside line so much. just my $3.50.

[AlexPfeiffer]

... ok alex so do you agree on the call that was made... i mean not trying to argue but the lower hp cars seem to do fine with the lines they run they come in faster and still manage to stay right on the A$$ of a higher hp and when theres an opening to pass wouldnt you take it considering if you pass while drifting that would help with you points wise.. or am i mistaken? i just want to know if you agree with the judges

I dont try to pass. There is a difference. If the person infront of me messes up to the point that he leaves the apex wide open, yes, I will probably pass. If you look at this whole season and last, that hasnt happened yet.
I feel that you are supposed to follow and better your opponets line, speed, and angle inorder to win. Not dash to the inside line and attempt to pass every run.

I think I made a point at sear point to show that just because I was passed twice, doesnt mean that they where on a "faster" line. They just stole my line. If you watch the replays, they were in my way more then they were faster then me. They both passed on the inside line and started their drifts much laiter (with an e-brake) which means they are *Censored**Censored**Censored*!!! That was dirty drifting.

I can see that everyone wants to win, but to have to cheat inorder to do it doesnt make it much of a win, well it keeps your sponcors happy. In racing there are 2 types, cheaters and loosers. It seems drifting has gone the same way.

I do this for the fun and excitement of it. If I want to cheat, I can too. But I'd rather just enjoy being in the middle of the points standings and stay true to what I have learned, Good Clean Drifting. Not lait entry, inside line, e-brake, no momentum, *Censored**Censored**Censored* DRIFTING!!!!

[D1 DRIFTER]

so how can u better a Higher HP cars line. if you have to take a wider line in a lower HP car???

[AlexPfeiffer]

If you keep your momentum up, then you will still be right on him. Yes, you may have less tire smoke and you have to give up some of your angle in places, but you still have a good chance on winning. The judges do take into consideration that you are in a low hp car and you need to run that type of line.

You have to remember that when the cars are drifting, there isnt as much speed difference. A 200hp ae86 with 195's can have the same drifting speed as a 500hp viper with 295's, it just wont have as much tire smoke and the viper can get up to that speed quicker.

If the high hp car runs an inside line, stay with your outside line. The judges should know that the inside line is weak and unexciting. And most of the time you will still catch up a bit at the apex of the corner, which shows the judges that you had better line and speed.

[Hubert Young]

Finally had a chance to watch round 4 at Sears (yes, it's Sears Point, not Infineon or Sonoma!!). I was a little surprised by the reason the judge gave Rhys of why he lost to Alex. The main reason should have been that Rhys straightened the car a little and not getting his front wheel on the burm!

I totally second what Alex said about passing in drifting. I have witnessed some pretty lame tandem drifting in FD in the last few rounds: the lead car takes a shallow line too shallow. They call it the "protective line" but it's plain "chicken line" to me. Running a slightly shallow line to protect your line is good but going as far as just hugging the whole inside of a turn is no fun. I guess part of the reasons for the lead driver to do this was that most of the drivers in FD just want to pass and steal the line of the lead car. This is just like Alex said, "dirty drifting". It's 100 times more difficult to stay close to the car in front of you and mimic the moves of the lead car. That's skills. Passing is pretty easy in drifting if you want to do it. I suggest FD to ban passing UNLESS THE LEAD CAR CLEARLY MAKES A MISTAKE.

Anyhow, I always say this at the FD events after I see everybody's practices were so good, "I will hate to be a judge today!". Good work Ken and the other judges. Keep it up. Let's learn the game together and make it even better next year!

[zdss14]

"The three factory guys are sitting 1-2-3 in the points, but I'll also dare anyone to say that Rhys Millen hasn't been the single most consistant drifter this year. Every run of his is clean, precise, and practically without fault."

he's not good because he's factory, he's factory because HE'S good